Here's an interesting example, late November, long after a killing frost, I hunted a 160@ old, I mean waist and shoulder high grass, with waterways of brome, tangled so bad it was like walking in waders, finely corralled a group of rosters, 5 got up, one made a mistake, which I dropped. Because I am interested in what they feed on, I opened the crop, and found nothing but freeze dried grasshoppers! This quarter section was literally surrounded by on four sides with corn, milo, and bean stubble, with waste grain all over. My point being that food is almost never a limiting factor, but it is easier to hunt! My thought is lots of perennial plants, like pasture lespedeza, ragweed, common alfalfa, common sunflowers, chufa tubers, buffalo berry, service berry, wild plum. Believe it or not a lot of quail and pheasants lead happy lives with no access to a food plot! Food plots, as well as the 30 foot strips of prairie grass a long a field border, or a strip of milo, are trip traps for game birds, just killing zones to the benefits of predators and hunters alike. I have this idea, I want to hunt where the bird as the advantage, lots of cover, difficult to walk, available food sources, in short they can be anywhere! It takes a sharp hunter with good dogs to succeed, and even the failure provides memories!
Keep in mind the best habitat for pheasants and quail
- Thread starter oldandnew
- Start date
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
What he said!!!
1pheas4
Moderator
I can tell Ya'll for sure. The best and most consistent wild pheasant producing areas in North America are 1st, UNDESTURBED grasslands. With coulees and areas of woody cover. Woody cover within a grassland is escentual.
You do have to have all the pieces in place.
All you guys need to do is check out areas in US, Dakotas, MT where truly wild pheasants are thriving.
Really,Gazing, burning, spraying, digging out wood cover.
Good luck with that. :cheers:
Glad this is not going on in pheasant country.
I would agree with you when it comes to some of those areas in Montana you've posted photos of in the past. They're healthy. But, I have seen phenomenal results/increases in pheasant numbers within areas where burning, grazing, herbicide, and mowing was performed to get the desired habitat results (in South Dakota).
On the flip-side, I've witnessed all too many areas loose pheasant populations due to woody growth take-over, or matted down knotted up grass that could tangle cattle let alone a hen pheasant trying to make her way out with a brood.
It seems that everything you read about pheasant management always states that there should be food plots for winter survival. I would like to see more research done on other type of natural and wild food sources.I guess a food plot in good nesting cover would help hens keep their weight up for nesting, but it is very high maintance, and it's been proven that they can exist without it.
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
parooster, I think there is enough variance that the answer will be a bit different place by place. You'll want locally adapted forbs and legumes. As O & N said, even in the winter the birds are finding insects and selecting for them. I don'tk think that anyone is saying there is no place for food plots. They are just one of the most expensive management tools and only influence what's going on if you get through the nesting and brood-rearing season successfully. Yes, you can say that they bring the hens through the winter in better shape to nest. However the discussion kind of turns into the chicken vs the egg came first question. Most importantly is to look at more of a landscape perspective when starting a habitat plan so that you're not missing the limiting factor and providing what is already available in abundance.
Last edited:
quail hound
Moderator
That's my type of hunting OaN! I have some spots, they're public land but i call them mine because the birds are hard to outsmart. Sometimes you get in to them good and sometimes they make you shake your head.
I am flattered that you are interested in what I have to say. First we need to identify the problem. Is it lack of adequate places to hunt or are we talking pheasant numbers in general? Weather will have a lot to say about numbers. Even here where there is everything wildlife can want we had a poor hatch last year. We just came through the winter in great shape and birds are ready to nest as soon as the weather will let them and I am optomistic at this point for the coming season so far. $4 corn will take some of the pressure off the land use question, but I don't believe we are going to see what has been farmed go back into something usable for wildlife yet. The problem is land use and that will be decided by who wants to use it the most and who will be willing to contribute to that use. If there is a shortage of golf courses it will be demand by golfers that builds more golf courses. When people come to SD to hunt They buy a licence and some of that money is used to provide public hunting. Some people do that and also pay somone for use of their habitat and some of that money goes to keep or improve said habitat. If demand goes down some habitat will go away, if it increases there will be more habitat. Some people will contribute to PF or maybe rent 20 acres for ten years and turn it into cover. It ultimately comes down to the people that want to use it will have to vote with there wallet how bad they want to use it. $4 corn will make that a little easier. There is no silver bullet. When I was a kid I used to shoot flicker tail gophers by the hundreds. We don't have any now and I don't know why. Jack rabbits are scarce now. We used to fill pickups with them. I have not seen a wild partridge since 1996. We did not used to have snow geese around here, now they are everywhere, things change. I know this is not what you want to hear but I do not believe there is the will to set up what you have been proposing.
I am glad that you care as much as you do and I think you can have a positive affect. Find a few like minded individuals and rent a few 20 acre parcels and use it like a time share only for hunting. Sorry that I wrote a novel here but you asked and this is what came out. It is good to see you on here again, you add to the conversation.
OaN, that is what we try to do here and we are moving more and more in that direction. Just because there are birds here does not mean you will get to shoot them. It takes skill and sometimes luck and the right kind of weather. I try to build in challenges into every hunt. When it all lines up it is great fun.
RK Special K
New member
Some problems are bigger and more important to solve than our private enterprise system can be expected to solve. It's way "over the head" of the private profit motive, which is, by its nature, selfish, nearsighted, and myopic. Still, many good things come from this. But not all.
If Teddy Roosevelt said: These are great areas that need preserving. Let's let private enterprise realize this, and if they do, it will be preserved. This would not have happened then and it will not happen now. The short-term profit motive would take its priority over long-term benefits. These areas would be exploited with intense uses such as farming, ranching, road and utility infrastructure, golf courses, housing, and assorted commercialization and development.
Again, a NATIONAL GRASSLAND PROGRAM is way beyond the ability of the private profit motive to solve. Its benefits are too abstract and long-term to motivate single persons and businesses. And it's too large of a problem for the few that might understand it. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN if demand is defined by short-term profits, which in our free enterprise system, IT IS.
The profit motive WILL NOT protect our NATIONAL HUNTING TREASURE - it has not in the past and it will not in the future.
Private enterprise does a lot of good but its ability to solve all of our problems is limited. Don't expect it to solve this one. Its way over its head.
If Teddy Roosevelt said: These are great areas that need preserving. Let's let private enterprise realize this, and if they do, it will be preserved. This would not have happened then and it will not happen now. The short-term profit motive would take its priority over long-term benefits. These areas would be exploited with intense uses such as farming, ranching, road and utility infrastructure, golf courses, housing, and assorted commercialization and development.
Again, a NATIONAL GRASSLAND PROGRAM is way beyond the ability of the private profit motive to solve. Its benefits are too abstract and long-term to motivate single persons and businesses. And it's too large of a problem for the few that might understand it. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN if demand is defined by short-term profits, which in our free enterprise system, IT IS.
The profit motive WILL NOT protect our NATIONAL HUNTING TREASURE - it has not in the past and it will not in the future.
Private enterprise does a lot of good but its ability to solve all of our problems is limited. Don't expect it to solve this one. Its way over its head.
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
Haymaker, oldandnew, Quailhound, 1phes4, sounds like we hunt a lot alike. I'm not always most thrilled by the ones I take home. The ones that gave a lively pursuit and got away hold my awe. They have a gozillion ways of doing that, and they've probably used most of them on me over the years. I don't like to hunt easy! I like big patches of big cover where the dogs and I can go tactical and put our minds and bodies against the best of the best. Nothing better than following a mile scent trail only to watch him lift quietly from the corner far from when I get there. He keeps his spurs and I enjoy his perfection. I hunt alone a lot. No expectations other than me and the dogs getting what keeps up leaning forward through the long, hot summers. Thanks for sharing gents! Hope to see you far from the road some time!!!
mnmthunting
Banned
Back to food plots. There's no question that if you have a 1/4 section (for example) of good mixed grassland to put in a 5 acre food plot is going to make your pheasant hunting better. As far as Winter hen survival, probably insignificant.
I can't see a wild pheasant starving under normal Winter conditions. Normal Winters are a heck of a lot different in KS then in ND.
For an example there are extremes. The Winter of 2010 and 2011 was extreme in ND and MT. Record snow from early Nov to mid March some 80-100 inches total.
Pheasant s were wiped out in the grasslands. Not only pheasants but deer and antelope 70% to 100% losses. Coulees, brush all drifted shut.
There was also long periods of record cold. So what killed the wildlife? was it the cold or starvation. No doubt a well fed critter would handle the cold much better then one that's not feeding.
The Pheasants, Sharptails and Huns that got into the ranchsites with the shelter, grain bins, stack yards and cattle feeding areas did very well. The long periods of sub zero and strong winds had little effect on the well feed birds. So you see, feeding the birds saved our upland hunting in the Northern Pheasant belt. Even though the feeding in many cases was indirect. Be sure that there were plenty of concerned folks feeding wildlife.
That same area was mostly "open" this past Winter. Among the top 10 Winters as far as sub zero temps. Of course there was no starvation, immature pheasants died off with the first -30 blast in Dec. Otherwise look for the birds to be doing well, even those repopulating the grasslands.
Has anyone spent time in the Little Missouri National Grasslands?
This country is perfect pheasant country. Large areas between the coulees of knee high to waist high native grasses. The coulees have chokecherry, thick with Snow Berry and Buffalo Berry, Wild Rose etc. Grass Hoppers when available, I've also seen birds with their crops packed full of crickets and ants, clover and all sorts of greens. No need for grain of food plots.
The extreme weather of 2010 and 2011 wiped out the grassland pheasants.
We need a few more mostly open Winters, they will return. :cheers:
I can't see a wild pheasant starving under normal Winter conditions. Normal Winters are a heck of a lot different in KS then in ND.
For an example there are extremes. The Winter of 2010 and 2011 was extreme in ND and MT. Record snow from early Nov to mid March some 80-100 inches total.
Pheasant s were wiped out in the grasslands. Not only pheasants but deer and antelope 70% to 100% losses. Coulees, brush all drifted shut.
There was also long periods of record cold. So what killed the wildlife? was it the cold or starvation. No doubt a well fed critter would handle the cold much better then one that's not feeding.
The Pheasants, Sharptails and Huns that got into the ranchsites with the shelter, grain bins, stack yards and cattle feeding areas did very well. The long periods of sub zero and strong winds had little effect on the well feed birds. So you see, feeding the birds saved our upland hunting in the Northern Pheasant belt. Even though the feeding in many cases was indirect. Be sure that there were plenty of concerned folks feeding wildlife.
That same area was mostly "open" this past Winter. Among the top 10 Winters as far as sub zero temps. Of course there was no starvation, immature pheasants died off with the first -30 blast in Dec. Otherwise look for the birds to be doing well, even those repopulating the grasslands.
Has anyone spent time in the Little Missouri National Grasslands?
This country is perfect pheasant country. Large areas between the coulees of knee high to waist high native grasses. The coulees have chokecherry, thick with Snow Berry and Buffalo Berry, Wild Rose etc. Grass Hoppers when available, I've also seen birds with their crops packed full of crickets and ants, clover and all sorts of greens. No need for grain of food plots.
The extreme weather of 2010 and 2011 wiped out the grassland pheasants.
We need a few more mostly open Winters, they will return. :cheers:
RK Special K
New member
The one absolute common denominator is grass. And my education has taught me that 8-15% would be reasonably adequate THROUGHOUT western "pheasantland". Probably closer to the higher end of this percentage.
We can't control the weather - with bad weather, we will have fewer birds. With good weather, many more.
But certainly with less than 5% grass, it's really not worth talking about real wild pheasant hunting anymore. Good or bad weather, there simply won't be enough birds. Take up golf or bowling.
We can't control the weather - with bad weather, we will have fewer birds. With good weather, many more.
But certainly with less than 5% grass, it's really not worth talking about real wild pheasant hunting anymore. Good or bad weather, there simply won't be enough birds. Take up golf or bowling.
quail hound
Moderator
The main problem I have with food plots (and this is only in my small piece of the pheasant world where extreme winters are not a problem) is when they're added to areas severely lacking good nesting and brooding cover. It is alot easier to plant a small food plot than it is to manage good beneficial stands of grass. If you're area has all the other needed elements of habitat than by all means add a food plot, alot of wildlife will thank you for it but don't add them at the expense of what is truly important to upland nesting birds, quality nesting and brooding habitat.
Last edited:
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
RK, some of the best years in Kansas were built on the old wheat/summer fallow rotation. The weedy, unsprayed stubble hosted a pheasant population that is hard to duplicate now. Very little of it was based on native grass then. I can remember roosters flushing 1 at a time from a single tumbleweed. Sometimes 3 or more. I didn't have dogs then. I often wonder just how long a guy had to hunt then for the 4 bird limit.
mnmthunting
Banned
Special K, trust me, the percentage of grassland in Western ND and MT is FAR more then 15 percent.
I'm not talking CRP, just grasslands.
1pheas4
Moderator
I agree. Especially with a winter like we're coming out of. Landowners I've talked with who had PF food plots on their land are saying there's absolutely
nothing left. Everything's been eaten.
With that in mind, an important role food plots can play is minimizing predation/risk. A pheasant is obviously going to look for food during the winter. He's hungry. A well placed food plot can cut back on exposure to predators and the elements such as deadly wind driven snow.
Either way, I think we're all on the same page with the importance and necessity of quality nesting cover first and foremost.
mnmthunting
Banned
There was probably some bird friendly weather involved.
I have no problem agreeing with this. Pheasants do well with the weedy stuff.
Weedy, unsprayed stubble is not a lot different then undisturbed grasslands. :thumbsup:
mnmthunting
Banned
I agree. Especially with a winter like we're coming out of. Landowners I've talked with who had PF food plots on their land are saying there's absolutely
nothing left. Everything's been eaten.
With that in mind, an important role food plots can play is minimizing predation/risk. A pheasant is obviously going to look for food during the winter. He's hungry. A well placed food plot can cut back on exposure to predators and the elements such as deadly wind driven snow.
Either way, I think we're all on the same page with the importance and necessity of quality nesting cover first and foremost.
And you know Phez4, That all that grassland in W ND and E MT would provide more pheasants then we could handle.
BUT, there's extreme Weather, Winter is the limiting factor. What is it? about 1 out of every 4-5 years the heavy snow cover for 3-4 months does the pheasant in. At that time they need help.
Sharptails will get up with the wind and find what they need. Most often it's a stack yard. Pheasants will travel a mile maybe 4-5 at the max.
I would never try talk someone out of a food plot. More good then harm for sure. The shorter time it takes for a Pheasant to feed the less time for the predators. Then where do the pheasants go? to the woody cover for shelter. For the birds, all the pieces in place. Good Hunting, :cheers:
RK Special K
New member
As I said in a previous post, we can debate the effectiveness of substitutes for "CRP type" grass. If wheat and/or grazing land is managed with nesting in mind, then it may be an adequate replacement in some areas. However, the practice of managing for birds is fickle and changeable - it's what a farmer feels like doing from one year to the next. Since the end of the soil bank program, believing that "private enterprise" has the answer to habitat retention, has been a complete failure. We are asking it to do something that it has NO ability or capacity for. The "pheasantland island" has been continually shrinking since the end of soil bank. And it MOST DEFINITELY will continue if things remain the same.
PERMANENT GRASSLAND is really the only LONG-TERM solution. Farming practices, shelter belts, food plots, etc., are fine IF they revolve around a core grassland habitat theme of 10-15% grass.
PERMANENT GRASSLAND is really the only LONG-TERM solution. Farming practices, shelter belts, food plots, etc., are fine IF they revolve around a core grassland habitat theme of 10-15% grass.
If I were you, I would get on bended knee, and hope that the cattle market goes even higher and stays that way! The only way to see land back in grass is to make cattle profitable. Then the profit margin is in your favor. Grassland and beef cattle and pheasants are all linked into the same ecology. Ditto, huns, prairie chicken, sharpies , and quail. Need rotational grazing, dusting, rested recovery in a pasture, let me introduce you to the trusty beef cow! Besides, we might get consumer relief at the supper market, create more demand to challenge pork and chicken nuggets. Like it used be! pheasants, et.al. will take the cue. If we role reversed, with an equal exchange between row crop and cattle production, we can close the habitat forum.