Help me figure her out - young retriever issues

519vx

519vx

Member
Ok - so here goes. I have a female golden retriever who is just short of 2 years old. Purebred, with a very strong hunting pedigree. I worked with her and hunted her a little last year with the other golden I have, a 6 year old very bird dominant female. Twice last year, the older dog got very possessive and growled at the young one when I had a bird down in the field or in the truck where the two dogs were close together.

Last year's final hunt was in late December and I only took the younger pup. She put up a bird, I dropped it. She ran over in the area where the bird was down but wouldn't pick it up. When I walked over to it, she stood about 5 or 6 feet away and looked at it but wouldn't come closer. Consensus after talking with some other hunting friends was that she was afraid to get the bird as she remember getting growled at for getting too close to dead birds when the other dog was around. I've also had mild issues of gun shyness with her.

Fast forward to this year. I've been doing some retrieval training/practice in the yard with frozen quail, working with just the younger dog and leaving the older one inside the house. She's eager and has been doing a good job scenting and retreiving (I do a lot of this training at night, as though the grass in the yard isn't high, she can't see the bird and is forced to use her nose).

Saturday was our first time this year with some live birds. I bought three hen pheasants and went to a training grounds with nice tall weeds/grasses. I cut all the feathers off one wing on the first bird, dizzied it, and hid it in the grass. She found it, and had a ball with it, chasing, jumping when it flew,etc then brought it back to hand when commanded. I didn't fire.

Second bird I clipped just the ends of one wing. Dizzied it, hid it. She found it quickly, flushed it, I shot it, and she retreived it. YEAH!

The last bird I just dizzied and hid. I worked her in a big circle and led to the bird. She got birdy, and worked to within about 6 feet of the bird and wouldn't go in any further. I walked up to see if the bird had taken off, it hadn't and was still there. I encouraged her but she wouldn't flush the bird. From training her to retrieve, I tried the "walk away". Told her come on this way and started to walk away from the bird. She went in and flushed it, I shot it and she gave a so-so retrieve then dropped the bird. I had to do the walk away to get her to pick it up again. :mad:

The sequence of events with those three birds was what has me confused. :confused::confused: Bird one she couldn't get enough of...bird three was me having to pretend to leave to get her to flush it. I'd prefer not having to pretend to walk away this fall during the season if she pins a bird...so I really appreciate anyone's thoughts or ideas about any of this.

thanks a bunch. :cheers:
 
Sounds like she's just learning and pretty well too. I think the original bird shyness was about the lesson from the older dog. I think everything is on track. You've done a good job. You two get out in a field this season, both of you in an excited state, she'll pick up on that and lose her hesitation I bet.
 
Sounds like you have made some progress. My suggestion would be force fetching the dog. Issues of timidness can be tough to cure. The main thing would be repetition and reinforcement of desired behavior. Two years is a good time to have her force fetched. It will help the situation if done properly. If you choose not to, something you may do is kennel the young one while working and praising your older dog where the young one can see but not participate. Kennel the older one and work the younger one by herself. Sometime this encourages more confidence in a dog. good luck.
 
carptom1 said:
Sounds like you have made some progress. My suggestion would be force fetching the dog. Issues of timidness can be tough to cure. The main thing would be repetition and reinforcement of desired behavior. Two years is a good time to have her force fetched. It will help the situation if done properly. If you choose not to, something you may do is kennel the young one while working and praising your older dog where the young one can see but not participate. Kennel the older one and work the younger one by herself. Sometime this encourages more confidence in a dog. good luck.
Click to expand...

Thats good advice. Don't take it wrong or negative, but certain dogs are slow at learning, but sometimes they are the best in the long run. Some hard charger pups seem to have all figured out, and need to be reined in a little, others are more stand back and try to understand the procedure, before doing themselves. More dogs are situational learners, have to do it them selves, other dogs can exact knowledge from other dogs who retreive, or point, while watching. Like twins who learn from sister or brother, it's called visual learning. I like a chain gang, where other dogs do the retrieving, while a new dog watches. I would not use your other bitch in this excercise, because she may be to strong, and cow your pup. I would hunt her alone or with other dogs. Alot of times in behavior like this it is the "not serious" or the "other" dog does this routine, so I give that retrieve to her, and be happy with being around. All new dogs bring an adjustment by all dogs in the household about rights and fiefdoms. From lying on the couch, to who sits in the front seat. My dog sits in the front seat while my hunting buddy in the back, you see my hunting buddy misses pointed birds, a cardinal sin, makes him obviously a back seat rider, dog growls and sneers, to enforce his rights,grouses a little but takes it, my other hunting buddy, he sits in the front seat, he makes his shots!
 
Do you think she is still gunshy? You shot the second bird and then she didn't want to get the third one. Was her reluctance to retrieve the third bird possibly due to fear of the gun and that's why she didn't deliver to hand? I wonder if she thinks, "when I try to get the bird, the gun goes boom so I will not try to grab it."

I'm not a dog trainer, but that's the first thought that popped into my head. Maybe the panel of more knowledgeable dog guys can weigh in on that theory.

Good luck to you. Having a golden around is such a great joy. "golden" describes their relationship with their owners as much or more than it describes their fur. :cheers:
 
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Your situation is not unusual. An older more dominant dog will sometimes intimidate a younger less aggressive dog. It's too late now for you to start over, but I always break in a new dog without any other dogs or hunters along for distractions. If both dogs are hunted, they get rotated so only one dog works at a time.

Other than force-fetching, more field-time can help. The more your dog hunts without the other dog it might improve.
 
Sometimes hunting a young dog with a dominate older dog can work against you. I had that happen with by Brittany about 8 years ago. Always hunted them together, big mistake, as the older dog retrieved all the birds and the young dog never got to retrieve. Actually through my fault the younger dog was taught not to retrieve. I would be careful in hunting the two together until the younger dog is solid on the retrieve and won't allow the older dog to get the bird. As someone else suggested, it may be nessesary for you to have the young dog force fetch trained. I sure wish I had done that with my Britt as I now have a 9 year old non-retrieving dog. Other than that a great hunter but just won't retrieve. Don't make the same mistake I made. I should of had the younger dog force fetched.
 
Guys...thanks much for all the great thoughts and suggestions. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Hindsight is 20/20, and I probably shouldn't have hunted the two together, but with some of these ideas I'm hopeful things will work out.

THANK YOU to all that offered suggestions and words of encouragement. :cheers:
 
and finally...

is a young dog. She's got the program, just needs to get used to performing.

She WANTS to be your hunting partner. Give her time hunting with just the two of you. And, of course, praise her extravagantly.

Gonna be fun. :)
 
Just an update for all those that gave suggestions and advice..thank you. She is progressing along. Still not where I'd like her to be, but definately better. I tried some of the suggestions (including patience) and its working. She's growing more confident.

Its tough sometimes to find the time in a day to work with her, even for a little while given my work schedule and travel but that time is whats making a difference. I have also been taking her once a week to the preserve where I shoot sporting clays. they have big pens where they raise birds and she can run along side of them. Its as close to simulated hunting as I can get with the live birds and the shooting in the background. I also have a whole frozen bird that I keep in the freezer. Even night when I get home, I hide it somewhere in the yard...they we go out and "FIND IT". The other thing that's helping is putting the frozen bird outside somewhere at night, then letting her out to "FIND IT". Its to the point that whenever I go out to the garage where the freezer is, she stands at the door hoping we are going to do some bird work.

Seeing her come around is boosting both her confidence, and mine. So again, thank you to all of you that offered your advice. :cheers:
 
Interesting discussion...

The last three dogs have been through "puppy school." Two weeks of nothing but birds (pigeons) long rope and the trainer.

These sessions have:

1. imprinted the dog - birds are fun

2, stimulated the prey drive

3, introduced the idea of retrieving the bird, using the long rope

4. introduced the dog to the gun

I strongly recommend this training for a young dog. Just my experience, with five dogs.
 
The more birds you get her on the more confident she will become. Her brain isn't advanced enough to deduct birds, dogs, shooting, growling, etc. If she loves hunting birds, when she is driven she won't hear the gunshot! I do agree force fetching is the only way to go. Even my best Goldens, and I do raise and train Goldens need to be force broke at some point. The earlier the better!
 
Some hunters would argue that they only want their dog to find the bird...bringing it back is a bonus. Duck hunting is another issue - we're talking pheasants here.

A little yard training with a dummy, a rope and a few weiners does wonders! I started my dog(s) in the garage - confined quarters works well.

Good Luck!
 
david0311

519vx said:
Ok - so here goes. I have a female golden retriever who is just short of 2 years old. Purebred, with a very strong hunting pedigree. I worked with her and hunted her a little last year with the other golden I have, a 6 year old very bird dominant female. Twice last year, the older dog got very possessive and growled at the young one when I had a bird down in the field or in the truck where the two dogs were close together.

Last year's final hunt was in late December and I only took the younger pup. She put up a bird, I dropped it. She ran over in the area where the bird was down but wouldn't pick it up. When I walked over to it, she stood about 5 or 6 feet away and looked at it but wouldn't come closer. Consensus after talking with some other hunting friends was that she was afraid to get the bird as she remember getting growled at for getting too close to dead birds when the other dog was around. I've also had mild issues of gun shyness with he

Fast forward to this year. I've been doing some retrieval training/practice in the yard with frozen quail, working with just the younger dog and leaving the older one inside the house. She's eager and has been doing a good job scenting and retreiving (I do a lot of this training at night, as though the grass in the yard isn't high, she can't see the bird and is forced to use her nose).

Saturday was our first time this year with some live birds. I bought three hen pheasants and went to a training grounds with nice tall weeds/grasses. I cut all the feathers off one wing on the first bird, dizzied it, and hid it in the grass. She found it, and had a ball with it, chasing, jumping when it flew,etc then brought it back to hand when commanded. I didn't fire.

Second bird I clipped just the ends of one wing. Dizzied it, hid it. She found it quickly, flushed it, I shot it, and she retreived it. YEAH!

The last bird I just dizzied and hid. I worked her in a big circle and led to the bird. She got birdy, and worked to within about 6 feet of the bird and wouldn't go in any further. I walked up to see if the bird had taken off, it hadn't and was still there. I encouraged her but she wouldn't flush the bird. From training her to retrieve, I tried the "walk away". Told her come on this way and started to walk away from the bird. She went in and flushed it, I shot it and she gave a so-so retrieve then dropped the bird. I had to do the walk away to get her to pick it up again. :mad:

The sequence of events with those three birds was what has me confused. :confused::confused: Bird one she couldn't get enough of...bird three was me having to pretend to leave to get her to flush it. I'd prefer not having to pretend to walk away this fall during the season if she pins a bird...so I really appreciate anyone's thoughts or ideas about any of this.

thanks a bunch. :cheers:
Click to expand...

You have received-some- good advice JMO- I would suggest you get with a -first- rate retriever pro--let him/her give you a evaluation of the situation from first hand observation of your girl and work up a training plan- had this issue many years ago from the same basic situation you and Zeb describe--also with out actual observation but from your description you may have a gun issue as well-again a first rate pro-would be time a some money well spent JMHO

Don't know where you live but if you wish to look into my idea may know someone near you that could help--
 
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