mnaj_springer
New member
Ranch, you have quite a bit to say. Ken Roebuck was a fantastic trainer... but best in the world? Are you going to back that up with some objective statement? Also, I don't believe I've heard of you...
Flushing Lab Distance Control
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ranchodeluxe
Member
Well, how many books have you written on Spaniels? Videos?. Operated a world-class UK kennel for 50 years? Had another guy buy your bloodlines, lock stock and barrel? If he isn't, who is? Of course you haven't heard of me, I am just a SD hack. That's why I defer to Mr. Roebuck as a proper source of training material. That's why I advised the poster to purchase, or at-least check out Mr. Roebuck's book. I didn't advise anything that isn't in the book. It's not my training methods, it's his. So while others give "their" opinions, and bicker about proper shock collar technique, I tried to steer the individual to some resource aside from internet blather.
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ranchodeluxe
Member
Rancho-Rancho--
Calm down--
I was just asking a question--so you could further enlighten us--
I do not disagree with every thing you write--
In fact I compliment you on your self diagnosis of why we disagree in your first sentance:
You have been very critical of me and some others as to training methods--
YET--you run a dog that you can't call back with your methods along I-90 and have to divert to ours-
As to your other hair raising and there I WAS situations you relate--
Were you by your self of accompanied by Walter MITTY-
First, and foremost, once again, my male dog is the victim of an unscrupulous Minnesota breeder who let his dog fall into an abusive, neglectful, abandoned situation. He had been badly beaten and had/has some issues. Ever start with a dog that is a year and a half old and only knows his name? He isn't perfect, but the incident I describe was in 2012, I got him from the Red Wing MN dog pound in September of the prior year, so, no he wasn't perfect a year later, but he was better than most dogs I see in the field. You generalize based on one incident and infer that my dog won't respond to commands unless I "use your technique "but that's pure bullshit, it was one incident where his life was in danger and he did not respond on command. I know your dogs are flawless and never need correction, that's why you have to maintain absolute control by shocking him to make minor corrections, after you have pleaded with him to obey.
I won't address the rest of your blather, believe what you like.
mnaj_springer
New member
I never said my method was the best. And I never said yours was worse. But you are denigrating others with snarkiness and sarcasm, and I'm not (right now). Since I'm not suggesting I'm the best, it would seem ridiculous that I have a book.
As far as Mr. Roebuck goes, I'm not diminishing his accomplishments, but stating your opinion as fact says something. It says more than you haven't objectively backed it up.
carptom1
Well-known member
Wikipedia as a source, that's some funny shit there.
You are probably not going to teach a dog a lot of manners in a field full of pheasants, that work is done at home. I trained my current one mostly on walks. He knows his range and stays in it or gets the beep, he knows what comes next. He has probably been shocked twice in the last two years. If you are constantly whistling or frying him with the collar something needs to change. As Johnny B or some others on here will attest I have a very high prey dog and have no trouble keeping him in range. I am too old and fat to chase dogs all day, and him flushing birds at 60-70 yards are not going to do any of us any good. Unless he catches one himself, but that's another story
You are probably not going to teach a dog a lot of manners in a field full of pheasants, that work is done at home. I trained my current one mostly on walks. He knows his range and stays in it or gets the beep, he knows what comes next. He has probably been shocked twice in the last two years. If you are constantly whistling or frying him with the collar something needs to change. As Johnny B or some others on here will attest I have a very high prey dog and have no trouble keeping him in range. I am too old and fat to chase dogs all day, and him flushing birds at 60-70 yards are not going to do any of us any good. Unless he catches one himself, but that's another story
Gatzby
Well-known member
Thank you goldenboy, I will incorporate that into a few clipped wing find sessions and see how he responds. I would also like to say though, that the wild birds don't tend to sit as nice as the game farm ones
mnaj_springer
New member
Thank you goldenboy, I will incorporate that into a few clipped wing find sessions and see how he responds. I would also like to say though, that the wild birds don't tend to sit as nice as the game farm ones
You're right. They don't sit as tight. But with my springer I know when she's tracking a bird, so when she gets to the edge of my gun range I blow the sit whistle, catch up, and release her to continue tracking. We may lose the trail sometimes but she's not pushing birds out of range or disturbing cover that has birds while chasing the out of range bird.
goldenboy
Well-known member
Thank you goldenboy, I will incorporate that into a few clipped wing find sessions and see how he responds. I would also like to say though, that the wild birds don't tend to sit as nice as the game farm ones
Flushed up you are right the game farm birds do play much nicer, but that same scenario was played out numerous times on wild birds in South Dakota last week as well. But I will say this each dog is a bit different and you have to learn their habits, the good and the bad habits to become smarter than them.
As far as the rest of the banter, keep it up I love reading this thread! I find it interesting whenever someone touts Wolters, or Hillman, or any of the other known trainers out there someone can always find faults with them and great praise for them. My suggestion is find guys who hunt and train like you do, stick with them and you will be fine. Once we all tend to cross-train that is where "discussions" come into play! As far as e-collars go, yes people can over use them, I find them a tool to help me, kind of like a long leash that lets the dog know I am still in control no matter how far away you are. Most of the time a simple vibration reminder is all they need. I find the silence of that while hunting wild roosters much more effective than a whistle or voice command.
ranchodeluxe
Member
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, spent my Thursday doing what I do, six roosters in the bag between me and my buddy, retrieved to hand. I suspect tomorrow and Saturday will wash, rinse, repeat. Damn these dogs really suck.
mnaj_springer
New member
Has anyone actually said your dogs suck? Or is it just your nature to personalize things? Haha I'm trying hard to not use my professional jargon!
ranchodeluxe
Member
Fred Bradley has been hunting over Springers for thirty years. Fred began professionally training gun dogs in 1994, when his mentor, Ken Roebuck, retired and moved to England. Fred made it a point to travel to England several times to meet with and observe several different English trainers. From those experiences, Fred has shaped his style of working with Spaniels and Retrievers, to try and get the best from them.
Q: What breed of dog is right for me?
A: For those whose main interest is upland hunting, that is pheasant, grouse, woodcock and quail, a spaniel is a good choice, since they have been bred specifically for this purpose. Many retrievers also make good upland hunting dogs, but the job that they were bred for and do best is marking fallen game and retrieving it.
Q: What breed of dog is right for me?
A: For those whose main interest is upland hunting, that is pheasant, grouse, woodcock and quail, a spaniel is a good choice, since they have been bred specifically for this purpose. Many retrievers also make good upland hunting dogs, but the job that they were bred for and do best is marking fallen game and retrieving it.
ranchodeluxe
Member
mnaj_springer
New member
What? Am I missing the context for this post?
ranchodeluxe
Member
Damn, I thought my cereal tasted weird.
carptom1
Well-known member
This is his response to another thread where I called my Lab a retriever, and he schooled me on how there was a difference between flusher's and retrievers. And because my dog will grab a bird from time to time I should leave him on the couch, or turn him into the game warden, or take a trip to France. I don't know I have lost track of his lessons on the various threads. It must be tough having to be right all the time. Tremendous burden
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mnaj_springer
New member
Thanks. I was so confused. It appeared to be unsolicited information.
As for your lab trapping birds... That's perfect! I think anyone who believes flushing dogs intend to flush birds for the gun are fooling themselves. Flushing dogs are only doing one thing, and that's catching the bird. Now over the pond they don't like that, but in America, that's seen as a + flush.
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