Dakota Swede
New member
300 plus million people in the USA. The world population growing. People need to eat.
And they aren't making any more land.
And they aren't making any more land.
Farmland Values
- Thread starter Wirehairs
- Start date
Interesting link about farm ground prices and historical prices. Three year old data
Also interesting to me what is said about farm banks.
Land price will correct, not sure when but they will.
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/analytical/quarterly/2008_vol2_4/farmland.html
Also interesting to me what is said about farm banks.
Land price will correct, not sure when but they will.
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/analytical/quarterly/2008_vol2_4/farmland.html
Ducks Unlimited just sold land in South Dakota for between $800 and $900 per acre. So you can buy land for alot less than the price you were talking about.
onpoint
Active member
Ya, well with what farmland is bringing, get ready for $10.00 a gallon milk, $6.00 a doz eggs and $10,00 a pound butter.
That will make the farmer no better then the gouging oil company's who also reap record profits. You won't have to worry about hunting anymore. We will all be to busy trying to feed ourselves and keep warm. We are witnessing the failure of capitalism yet once again.
For ground with a lifetime conservation easement, and very little if any income, ( limited to a little hay, or a little grazing, maybe a crop corner), might pay the taxes, but your investment of 100,000+ or minus will have to be returned in hunting value or tax deduction from some income earned in corporate raiding or being a souless banker. :cheers:
morrismike
New member
You need to read "Atlas Shrugged".
You are right about the easments, but cattlemen bought it to raise beef on.
UGUIDE
Active member
OP I agree with a lot of what you say on this forum. This post just sorta got me and strikes me a little bit. I am a capitalist. I believe in a free market system.
Corn farming in the US is not even close to capitalism in the actual definition of capitalism. I feel what we are witnessing the failure of the policies set down by the US government once more. AKA "safety nets" Policies strongly influenced by lobbyist. Lobbyist care nothing for free market competition.
Let the lobbyist take the credit for their "hard work" now.
onpoint
Active member
When wealth is concentrated to only a few and opportunity crushed by their domination. Capitalism evolutionizes into a dictatorship regime...it's broke and can only be fixed by a revulsion.
A couple of examples of the concentrated wealth problem in America.
http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
http://www.landreport.com/americas-100-largest-landowners/
And that is what I agree with OP on.
But just so I am very clear. Ant-trust legislation pushed through by one of the greatest American Presidents of all time (Theodor Roosevelt) needs to be fully enforced thereby breaking the wealth concentration and the ability for any one group to crush the competition.
When the people of the Republic of The United States of America allowed the federal government more power than was originally designed by the founding fathers.
Those who worship only money saw an opportunity to manipulate the new system to their advantage.
Hence part of the current US farming issues. A federal government subsidy does exist to grain farmers. Big business sees the subsidies as a reduced risk to investment or operate. Small farmers can not compete with multi million dollar mutual funds.
The feds stepping in with a safety net, which may have had positive intentions, has only worsen the long term stress on a "normal" farmer.
When a farmer (or banker or insurance company or big Auto company) is left to a capitalist system with no government "rescue".
Some will fail. That is harsh but that IS business. But in the process of failure new opportunists will be made for those who can and have succeeded. Thereby creating a stronger system that rewards those who can rather than a system that rewards those who "give it a good try" as we currently do.
As long as their is a federal government with the mindset of "This company is to big to fail...." (which is how they view farmers ONLY because the federal government NEEDS the strong exports they produce) We (the) citizens of The Republic of The United States will be shackled to a system where the abusers grow richer and more powerful.
Break up the monopolies wherever they are. Stimulate growth. Reduce wealth concentration in the hands of a few. Theodor Roosevelt was a great president for his view of solving problems for the long term...he also did some great things for the American Sportsman.
The two can go hand and hand.
Aren't you limited as far as stocking numbers, length of grazing season, or something? Seems like it would defeat the entire conservation purpose if unlimited grazing was allowed. What is the value of grazing under these restrictions? or are there any restrictions beyond plowing it up?
You can't cut it for hay until either July 1st or the 15th but grazing is normal.
Grazing value right now is about $40 per acre. Of course it can't be farmed but I think you can get a permit for a food plot or two.
onpoint
Active member
I agree with much what you say..:cheers:
We have reached the point of this discussion where those of us alive cannot tell which came first the chicken or the egg. USDA overriding policy since the calamity of the post WW1 agricultural collapse and the great depression has been to assure an abundant and cheap US food supply, thereby mollifying the vast number of voters. Happy voters vote for the status quo. Efforts begining with whatever minor decision to protect a class of business, or special class of citizen, no matter how innocent or well intentioned, by direct subsidy, legislation, or tariff, was the camel's nose under the tent, and set the stage for more activism to come. Special treatment leads to preservation of inefficiency, as the tail draggers of the protected class, are protected as well as the efficient. Pretty soon all in the class regress to the inefficiency of the tail draggers because there is no incentive to perservere, everybody is comfortable and gets the same treatment. Soon we have a bloated, inefficient, industry, propped up only by the support it recieves from the government. the auto industry is a classic example. Government encouraged the growth of the auto industry, remember the slogun, "what's good for GM is good for America"? Then the government in order to correct the excesses created by government policy, fostered the labor movement with judicial activism, resulting in better working conditions for auto workers, until the line worker was able to live like a third world potentate. Cost of autos goes through the roof. Industry prices the product out of the market, labor now protected by complete job security produces an inferior product. along comes the world market, hungrier,cheaper labor, embracing automation, seize the advantage and force the domestic supported industry to the brink. now it's the Companies themselves which are the beneficiaries of the protection again with direct support. The beast lives on. So apply what we know of government farm policy, farm land values, how the world reacts, and result of short term decisions 20 years down the road, what do we see? If we save ourselves, and emerge from a calamity, still the captain's astride the world, we will be the first society to do so in History. At the end Rome was a hollow society, pre-occupied by comfort and games, projecting power with a mercenary military. i say this while watching the NFL on TV, in the comfort of my easy chair, instead of working on the next tech breakthrough or advancing society in some meaningful way, dis-engaged from,but protected by a far-flung military projecting our vision across the world. Touchdown!
UGUIDE
Active member
For certain O&N, the one game changer in our new economy is the word "Global Economy".
I don't think anyone has a real good handle on impacts the global economy has on their world. Technology infrastructure is rampantly spreading thru third world countries and they are coming up to speed in the new economu pretty quick.
Here's my definition of frustration: Being an employee in a country founded and still thriving on the free enterprise model.
Not meant to offend anyone. Just my two cents worth. I think our school systems falls way short on educating its students about what the founding fathers had in mind and for the most part is still inplace in our great country.
I don't think anyone has a real good handle on impacts the global economy has on their world. Technology infrastructure is rampantly spreading thru third world countries and they are coming up to speed in the new economu pretty quick.
Here's my definition of frustration: Being an employee in a country founded and still thriving on the free enterprise model.
Not meant to offend anyone. Just my two cents worth. I think our school systems falls way short on educating its students about what the founding fathers had in mind and for the most part is still inplace in our great country.
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morrismike
New member
Most of the current "rich folks" would be no friends of Rand. She detested those that lobby for their ill gotten gains. Altruism is the answer to nothing. If you want to break up land ownership/speculation then do away with the tax favors and subsidies that make it possible to own land for a living.
AtTheMurph
Well-known member
Here is the problem with the idea that farm prices are going to revert to the mean. It discounts the problem with our paper currency.
Our Federal Reserve bank has printed trillions of new dollars and will continue to do so. Those dollars are going to go somewhere. Right now they are going into US treasury debt (record low rates) and real assets like farm ground and precious metals, also record prices when denominated in dollars.
You see that's the problem. We tend to measure things in terms of a dollar that is supposed to remain constant in value. we are also conditioned to beleive that inflation is some measure that the government spits out at us but doesn't measure real price appreciation.
Real things that we need are going up in dollar price much faster than that worthless Govt inflation number suggests. The real way to view the value of things is to measure in relative terms. Is farm ground really that much more expensive when measured in another way, say in the price of a barrel of oil or in an ounce of gold?
What we are really seeing is that inflation rearing it's ugly head in places that are uncontrollable - farm ground, oil, gold, silver and eventually everything else. The real cycle I see is one of fiat money destruction which every country througout history which has had the ability to print money has done.
We have piled up debt that is now unpayable and our government will print to pay it off destroying the value of the dollar in the process but not the value fo real assets because they cannot destroy that.
Farmground will always have value in relation to other things but I can easily foresee a day when no one will trade farmground for paper dollars. That's the bigger cycle and we have already printed stupendous amounts of paper, we just need now wait for the ultimate consequences which is bigger and bigger bubbles in real assets until the biggest of all goes pop and all that money floods into everything and you cannot get rid of paper dollars fast enough.
Our Federal Reserve bank has printed trillions of new dollars and will continue to do so. Those dollars are going to go somewhere. Right now they are going into US treasury debt (record low rates) and real assets like farm ground and precious metals, also record prices when denominated in dollars.
You see that's the problem. We tend to measure things in terms of a dollar that is supposed to remain constant in value. we are also conditioned to beleive that inflation is some measure that the government spits out at us but doesn't measure real price appreciation.
Real things that we need are going up in dollar price much faster than that worthless Govt inflation number suggests. The real way to view the value of things is to measure in relative terms. Is farm ground really that much more expensive when measured in another way, say in the price of a barrel of oil or in an ounce of gold?
What we are really seeing is that inflation rearing it's ugly head in places that are uncontrollable - farm ground, oil, gold, silver and eventually everything else. The real cycle I see is one of fiat money destruction which every country througout history which has had the ability to print money has done.
We have piled up debt that is now unpayable and our government will print to pay it off destroying the value of the dollar in the process but not the value fo real assets because they cannot destroy that.
Farmground will always have value in relation to other things but I can easily foresee a day when no one will trade farmground for paper dollars. That's the bigger cycle and we have already printed stupendous amounts of paper, we just need now wait for the ultimate consequences which is bigger and bigger bubbles in real assets until the biggest of all goes pop and all that money floods into everything and you cannot get rid of paper dollars fast enough.
Unfortunately, there is probably a lot of truth in that statement. Ever see the video "end of america 13"? Google it and watch it, it'll make you VERY nervous. Click on the first one, its says RED ALERT I believe and it will provide a link.
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UGUIDE
Active member
I watched the republican debate on last night on FOX. It was excellent! Newt got a standing ovation which one analyst said after the debate that he had never seen that in 16 years of debates.
CNN has another debate on Thursday before the SC primary. Good stuff. Gives one hope. Well from all candidates except for one. his initials are Ron Paul.
CNN has another debate on Thursday before the SC primary. Good stuff. Gives one hope. Well from all candidates except for one. his initials are Ron Paul.