Fair Chase

[Dakotazeb]

This is a question that has been going though my mind lately. There is always talk about "Fair Chase" when it comes to big game, but how does it apply to pheasant hunting. If you road hunt, jump out of your vehicle and shoot a pheasant that was in the ditch, is that "Fair Chase"? Even if it is done legally? Where does ethical pheasant hunting began and end?

In my 55+ years of pheasant hunting I've certainly taken my share of birds from the road ditch. In fact as a kid my father and I did most of our pheasant hunting from the vehicle. My father had one artificial leg and walking very much was difficult for him. But it has been many years now since I've stopped to pop a bird in the ditch. Now I just drive by and admire them. Drove by 4 roosters yesterday that were just sitting there. Now it's more important for me to be in the field with my dog and have the challenge to harvest a bird in that manner. More along the lines of what I would call "Fair chase".

I don't want to start a situation here with this issue, it's simply more of a question. I'm not faulting anyone that road hunts legally. Since we don't hear the term "Fair Chase" used in our sport what does it mean to some of you.

 

[LoneRooster]

I personally do not have a problem with road hunting..I will usually only harvest a bird off the road side if I have had a rough day in the fields without producing any results. Still..to me there is nothing better then getting a rooster hunting with your dog..that is what it is all about in my eyes. The road hunting aspect has lost its appeal to me but after a day of walking 30 miles and not getting any birds..I think I would pop one in a ditch if the opportunity presented itself...

 

[quail hound]

Good thread Zeb. Hunting road ditches legally is one thing but the guys out there stopping to ground sluicing birds is another. I think "fair chase" when it comes to game birds is hunting in a way that lets natural selection take place. Birds hunted in a walked up fashion learn quickly what it takes to avoid being shot and this leaves the smartest best equipped birds alive to breed the following spring. Look at "hunting" across the pond. Driving birds over the guns is not conducive to natural selection. The smartest and dumbest birds have the same chance of being shot as they sail over the guns. Now we know why they have to rear almost all of their game birds in a pen now. Over here the closest we have is big block and drive parties pushing whole fields. Does this give the smartest birds a chance over the dumb ones? Last weekend my brother and I pushed a field and watched 6 birds get up about 60yds ahead of us (smart birds), if we had a couple blockers a few would've probably not have lived to fight another day. We kept pushing the field and towards the end the dogs get birdy and low and behold one dumb rooster who decided not to leave early gets up in range. I'm not saying block and drives are bad (I've never been a part of one) but they're not conducive to natural selection imo. Shooting quail off their roost is unethical in my eyes as is waiting for them to come to the only watering hole around. It all boils down to us policing ourselves though and hunting in the way that WE feel is ethical.

 

[oldandnew]

For me it involves "wild birds". I figure where I am going, strategy working the place, which dogs, knowledge of where birds have been in the past. I guess they have to be "legged" up, worked for. With a fair or better chance to escape. We all have stopped and run a ditch when we were young and hungry. Might have to again! when I get old. This dilema is why I can not do a preserve hunt, except for dog training, introducing new hunters, etc. like a field trial with pen raised birds, there is no drama, we know they are there, with only their feed chicken mentality and feeble flight pattern to defend them. I have no problem harvesting that bird, than I have ringing one of my chicken necks for Sunday dinner, at some point we may all get there. That preserve is a shooting sport, but not fair chase. The Brits called driven grouse, pheasants, huns, a "shoot", where by the impetence of the sport was actually just "shooting". Fair chase to a pheasant hunter mean you, your dog, trusted friend and his dog, taking the cover as it comes, shots as they are presented, either pointed, or flushed, or wild flushed, matching wits with the one of the kings of gamebirds. Could you do that in a ditch? Sure. As long as we don't wheel up and smoke one out of the car window! You and I are to old for that. Being in the presence of the bird is enough, "knowing he's out there", gives a sense of satisfaction, we will see him again someday. Also we know the success rate on ditch stalks are speculative at best, after a few days at season opening. My grandpa believed all roosters were fair caught, because of their sneaky ways, regardless of the situation! But he was hide bound about decorum with quail. I guess we are all a dicotomy of inconsitencies!

 

[V-John]

I'm interested in how this thread goes... Especially ground slucing. There was quite the stir up on another board about this (Ditch, I'm sure you remember that one) and having grown up in Kansas, and only hunted in Kansas, it blew my mind that people did this. Last I recall it was illegal here in Kansas and always has been. (Correct me if I'm wrong..) So, in my eyes, that's not even a question.

So shooting a bird in a ditch doesn't happen. I suppose that I would have to be in a situation where I was starving or something for that to happen. I haven't been in that situation yet, so....

As far as fair chase is concerned, some of those big armys pushing a field with upteen blockers.... I would think that isn't fair chase either. Birds don't stand much of a chance, especially with "X" number of labs,or whatever types of dogs are used in that instance.

 

[UGUIDE]

Here's Boone & Crockett's statement on it: (theirs applies to big game but I see no difference).

FAIR CHASE STATEMENT
FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.
HUNTER ETHICS
Fundamental to all hunting is the concept of conservation of natural resources. Hunting in today's world involves the regulated harvest of individual animals in a manner that conserves, protects, and perpetuates the hunted population. The hunter engages in a one-to-one relationship with the quarry and his or her hunting should be guided by a hierarchy of ethics related to hunting, which includes the following tenets:
1. Obey all applicable laws and regulations.
2. Respect the customs of the locale where the hunting occurs.
3. Exercise a personal code of behavior that reflects favorably on your abilities and sensibilities as a hunter.
4. Attain and maintain the skills necessary to make the kill as certain and quick as possible.
5. Behave in a way that will bring no dishonor to either the hunter, the hunted, or the environment.
6. Recognize that these tenets are intended to enhance the hunter's experience of the relationship between predator and prey, which is one of the most fundamental relationships of humans and their environment.

 

[oldandnew]

I'm interested in how this thread goes... Especially ground slucing. There was quite the stir up on another board about this (Ditch, I'm sure you remember that one) and having grown up in Kansas, and only hunted in Kansas, it blew my mind that people did this. Last I recall it was illegal here in Kansas and always has been. (Correct me if I'm wrong..) So, in my eyes, that's not even a question.

So shooting a bird in a ditch doesn't happen. I suppose that I would have to be in a situation where I was starving or something for that to happen. I haven't been in that situation yet, so....

As far as fair chase is concerned, some of those big armys pushing a field with upteen blockers.... I would think that isn't fair chase either. Birds don't stand much of a chance, especially with "X" number of labs,or whatever types of dogs are used in that instance.

I don't think they were talking about sluicing, I thought they were talking about stopping the car, and loading up to flush and shoot a rooster that ran across the road in front of the car. In some areas in Iowa and SD you can hunt the roadsides walking, and push birds to a blocker on the other end, both were conveyed there by car. But I don't believe there are defenders of sluicing game birds. My though if you walk and hunt, and shoot flying birds, whether it's in a ditch, or a prairie of grass, it's fair game. I might not want to do it, but others it's OK.

 

[V-John]

I don't think they were talking about sluicing, I thought they were talking about stopping the car, and loading up to flush and shoot a rooster that ran across the road in front of the car. In some areas in Iowa and SD you can hunt the roadsides walking, and push birds to a blocker on the other end, both were conveyed there by car. But I don't believe there are defenders of sluicing game birds. My though if you walk and hunt, and shoot flying birds, whether it's in a ditch, or a prairie of grass, it's fair game. I might not want to do it, but others it's OK.

Gotcha. Someone had said something about popping one in a ditch... I just had envisioned a truck driving slow, and either shooting out of the truck, or getting out and shooting it on the ground.

One of the arguements for ground sluicing birds was to allow a kid to shoot a bird on the ground as a first bird type of thing and I would be very interested to here some opinions on that.

 

[oldandnew]

Here's Boone & Crockett's statement on it: (theirs applies to big game but I see no difference).

FAIR CHASE STATEMENT
FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.
HUNTER ETHICS
Fundamental to all hunting is the concept of conservation of natural resources. Hunting in today's world involves the regulated harvest of individual animals in a manner that conserves, protects, and perpetuates the hunted population. The hunter engages in a one-to-one relationship with the quarry and his or her hunting should be guided by a hierarchy of ethics related to hunting, which includes the following tenets:
1. Obey all applicable laws and regulations.
2. Respect the customs of the locale where the hunting occurs.
3. Exercise a personal code of behavior that reflects favorably on your abilities and sensibilities as a hunter.
4. Attain and maintain the skills necessary to make the kill as certain and quick as possible.
5. Behave in a way that will bring no dishonor to either the hunter, the hunted, or the environment.
6. Recognize that these tenets are intended to enhance the hunter's experience of the relationship between predator and prey, which is one of the most fundamental relationships of humans and their environment.

I guess "fair chase" rules out hunting preserves. Wonder about using a local "guide" with a pack team to load you in and out of the wilderness, and direct you a big game animal? is that watching or hunting? Is that fair chase? Like the Vermejo ranch in New Mexico. Or an African Big Game safari, where they take you in a Land Rover, and say shoot that one after a grueling 100 yard stalk. It's a wide open interpretation.

 

[oldandnew]

Gotcha. Someone had said something about popping one in a ditch... I just had envisioned a truck driving slow, and either shooting out of the truck, or getting out and shooting it on the ground.

One of the arguements for ground sluicing birds was to allow a kid to shoot a bird on the ground as a first bird type of thing and I would be very interested to here some opinions on that.

I had the same vision of "popping one in the ditch" myself. but we might be surprised!

 

[quail hound]

Gotcha. Someone had said something about popping one in a ditch... I just had envisioned a truck driving slow, and either shooting out of the truck, or getting out and shooting it on the ground.

One of the arguements for ground sluicing birds was to allow a kid to shoot a bird on the ground as a first bird type of thing and I would be very interested to here some opinions on that.

I think it's imperative to tech kids to be ethical sportsmen at a young age and to me shooting a game bird on the ground is neither sportsmen like or ethical save for a few exceptions like handicapped hunters like the article in the last PF magazine.

 

[V-John]

I think it's imperative to tech kids to be ethical sportsmen at a young age and to me shooting a game bird on the ground is neither sportsmen like or ethical save for a few exceptions like handicapped hunters like the article in the last PF magazine.

I totally agree here. Well put.
Apparantly, shooting a bird off of a fence post, or off of the ground is fair chase if a youngster does it (not my words) and it helps that youngster become a hunter for life. The argument is that the kid doesn't kill something and thus becomes frustrated with hunting and doesn't want to hunt anymore.
Anyways, carry on.

 

[BritChaser]

Since I am morally fine with eating fauna and I or others will eat the birds I shoot, I have little concern with the concept of fair chase. "Fair" implies a moral quality that I am not sure is there. It raises the question, Why is it more moral to kill something because bagging it was more difficult? If it is more difficult, the hunter may feel a greater sense of accomplishment, but that has no moral quality to it, in my view. It seems to me that fair chase is a set of rules, self-imposed or embodied in laws and regulations, adherence to which leaves the hunter feeling ethical about his or her actions and leaves game populations at viable levels.

 

[Dakotazeb]

I think I was the one that used the word "pop" one in the ditch. I didn't mean ground pound it, I was simply referring to shooting a bird you found sitting in the ditch.

Let's not get too deep into this. I think the statment that U-guide posted from Boone & Crockett is very good. Certainly could be applied to pheasant hunting.

I also don't think we can include preserve or pen raised birds. That's a whole different thing.

 

[V-John]

Since I am morally fine with eating fauna and I or others will eat the birds I shoot, I have little concern with the concept of fair chase. "Fair" implies a moral quality that I am not sure is there. It raises the question, Why is it more moral to kill something because bagging it was more difficult? If it is more difficult, the hunter may feel a greater sense of accomplishment, but that has no moral quality to it, in my view. It seems to me that fair chase is a set of rules, self-imposed or embodied in laws and regulations, adherence to which leaves the hunter feeling ethical about his or her actions and leaves game populations at viable levels.

Morality goes far beyond simply having a greater sense of accomplishment. In my eyes, morality is how I chose to live my life, and the choices I make. Those choices are a reflection of the person that I am, and strive to be. When dealing with living creatures, it goes beyond a "sense of accomplishment." Simply killing things to kill things is something I don't consider moral.

If I want a sense of accomplishment, I'll do a rubics cube or something like that.

 

[SetterNut]

Interesting thread in deed.

I suspect this is more a personal thing, the definition of "fair chase".

What is legal is the bottom of the standard, and its personal choice to tighten the standard.


The standard I like to try to hold myself to, is a wild bird pointed and shot. If its on public ground all the better.

 

[oldandnew]

Since I am morally fine with eating fauna and I or others will eat the birds I shoot, I have little concern with the concept of fair chase. "Fair" implies a moral quality that I am not sure is there. It raises the question, Why is it more moral to kill something because bagging it was more difficult? If it is more difficult, the hunter may feel a greater sense of accomplishment, but that has no moral quality to it, in my view. It seems to me that fair chase is a set of rules, self-imposed or embodied in laws and regulations, adherence to which leaves the hunter feeling ethical about his or her actions and leaves game populations at viable levels.

Self imposed is a good rule. We used to call it sportsmanship. We used to be called Sportsman, it was a distinction, competent, had knowledge, good shots, and a guy who you would ask advice from. I don't I have not heard that recently. We had sportsmanship, even in competetive sports, I remember that we did off tacke dives in football rather than to beat an over matched foe. Now we just keep scoring. Outdoor sportmen were my hero's, I try to carry it forward.

 

[oldandnew]

Interesting thread in deed.

I suspect this is more a personal thing, the definition of "fair chase".

What is legal is the bottom of the standard, and its personal choice to tighten the standard.


The standard I like to try to hold myself to, is a wild bird pointed and shot. If its on public ground all the better.

There you are, a "sportsman", I confer upon you! I hope there's a lot more! I do have to do penance, I have shot a wild flushed bird, and I might do it again! I need remedial training, with a lot more birds

 

[oldandnew]

I think there is a book published in english by a Spanish Duke or a Marquis, the thesis is Outdoor Sportsmanship, and the joy of hunting sports. I think his name is something...V Ortega? My be a good read, it's about 15-20 years old. A backward look at values we hold dear.

 

[UGUIDE]

My definition of fair chase is simple.

If I want to shoot a whitetail with a bow that I can enter into the record books then it is really just about what that requires which is:

Harvesting a wild animal to the letter of the law. IF It's Wild....IF It's Legal...It's Fair Chase!

Additionally, I believe the B&C club came up with the concept of fair chase after Teddy Roosevelt brought in legislation to correct the issues caused by commercial plundering of wildlife resources.

Here is the B&c Mission statement which further gets at the heart of what fair chase is all about.

MISSION STATEMENT
It is the policy of the Boone and Crockett Club to promote the guardianship and provident management of big game and associated wildlife in North America and maintain the highest standards of fair chase and sportsmanship in all aspects of big game hunting, in order that this resource of all the people may survive and prosper in its natural habitats. Consistent with this objective, the Club supports the use and enjoyment of our wildlife heritage to the fullest extent by this and future generations.