Deutch Drahthaar

Tbear

Tbear

UPH Master
Thinking about getting a pointing dog. Had labs my whole life. Iv put a lot of thought and time into what kind of dog I want and to me the DD fits what im looking for in my next dog but I have some questions........

Looking threw the breaders websited the mention that they would like you to do some different feild tests. During those tests your dog is suposed to track a rabbit. MY question is why a rabbit. What if I dont want my dog to have anything to do with rabbits. I understand that this breed is for Fur and Feather but I just hunt Feather. Thanks in advance for your imput.
 
Tbear said:
Thinking about getting a pointing dog. QUOTE]

Welcome to the darkside. :thumbsup:

I'm sure if you have no interest in putting the dog into field trials then don't.
I think it maybe more for breeding reasons that they want you to trial your dog?
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Although I've had GWPs, my friend has a DD.

The tests are fairly rigorous and designed to prove the capability of the versatile hunting dog to Point feathered game, Retrieve in water, and Track furred game. May include having the drive to kill furred game, as well. Don't remember exactly, but believe so.

After the tests, only then can the dog be certified as a DD for breeding purposes.


I didn't google anything, so I may not be entirely correct, but think so.

Have fun. Helluva dog.
 
Kismet
Thanks for the info. Called a breeder today to talk to them about it. Will see what they have to say.
 
just be aware, some of the DD guys don't really want to sell you a high quality pup unless you agree to take them through all the DD testing venues.
i understand where these guys are coming from, but for some folks that is an agreement you may not have time for or interest in......there are lots of solid GWP's and PP's out there you can train and hunt for yourself, without getting into a heavy dose of fur training and testing for things you really have no interest in.....just my thoughts.
 
94,
Your probably right and I cant blame the breeder. If they belive in something the way it sounds they do good for them. I would not have a problem doing the trial part if it was on birds. I just feel that spending so much time on training a dog to pass a test for something I dont want him to do and will not use him for is a waste of my time and the dogs.
 
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Tbear said:
94,
Your probably right and I cant blame the breeder. If they believe in something the way it sounds they do good for them. I would not have a problem doing the trial part if it was on birds. I just feel that spending so much time on training a dog to pass a test for something I don't want him to do and will not use him for is a waste of my time and the dogs.
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i am with you all the way.......a friend of my got a DD, spent hours laying blood tracks, ordered a fox carcass, kept it in the freezer and trained with it, i mean the whole deal seemed crazy to me....all for the breeder and putting the off spring through the German test venue....it is OK for some, not so much for many others who just want a reliable bird dog....those Germans! ;)
 
I should add...that often it is very difficult to STOP your dog from responding to its prey drive. My GWP, Young Bert, the not-right dog, had, in his career, taken on racoons, oppossum, groundhogs, and once, in late Spring, had to be pulled back from retrieving a late Spring fawn, which was looking at him like he was out of his mind. (No damage to the fawn, just moist from YB's mouth.)

And allow me to underscore, NONE of those were part of the training time he and I spent together. :D

have fun. Be advised, DDs are pretty single-minded in their pursuits and take a very consistent and firm (not harsh) hand to bring them to full partnership. (In my limited experience.)

Smart breed.
 
Kismet said:
I should add...that often it is very difficult to STOP your dog from responding to its prey drive. My GWP, Young Bert, the not-right dog, had, in his career, taken on racoons, oppossum, groundhogs, and once, in late Spring, had to be pulled back from retrieving a late Spring fawn, which was looking at him like he was out of his mind. (No damage to the fawn, just moist from YB's mouth.)

And allow me to underscore, NONE of those were part of the training time he and I spent together. :D

have fun. Be advised, DDs are pretty single-minded in their pursuits and take a very consistent and firm (not harsh) hand to bring them to full partnership. (In my limited experience.)

Smart breed.
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I have a good freind with 2 GWP. 1 could care less about anthing with fur. He know birds are what his owner is after. The other GWP he ownes will fight and try to kill anthing with fur. I know that just part of the bloodline and will have to be adressed as needed. Im still hopping I dont have to but will see.
 
just sayin' :D

YBcarryinggroundhog8-15-09.jpg



The idiot dog was on his yard lead, for cryin' out loud!



Have fun, you got time, and mostly, you and your partner will work out the relationship.
 
TBear,

I am an owner of several German Shorthairs and also only care for the feathered hunting. Like Kismet indicated all versatile breeds have genetic desire for the fur as well.

I have hosted three VGP dog trials in the past two years. I have been extremely impressed with the DD breeds ability to track wounded game, and have been working on blood trailing with my shorthairs as well.

The trials for DD are very stringent and timely. The breed standards ensure that breeders only breed dogs that have been successfully tested. The first two tests are the Breed Tests (VJP & HZP) followed by the VGP test that is a Utility Test.

I have included this website that will allow you to browse information on the breed and the tests. You should also be able to locate a chapter for your area.

http://www.vddgnabrc.org/resources/

Good Luck
It’s a great Breed, and could be my next breed of choice.
 
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I have a DD that I am extremely please with. He has an unbelievable nose. If he sees a rabbit he starts to chase it, I tell him no and the chase is over. I did a puppy trial just to see what it was about. I do not have time for that and that ended. I do not plan to breed him he is just my hunting partner. I may have gotten lucky but I could not ask for anything more. If you are interested send me a PM and I will tell you where I got him. I don't know where you can get more dog for the money.
 
TBear,

Checkout this link and give the breeder a call. I know him personallly and he will give you the straight poop on what he requires. He breeds DD's that are as good as anyone's and he is here in the twin cities, so close enough for you to go checkout his dogs. I don't believe he requires the pups he sells must be tested in VDD tests. He does test his dogs he keeps through the German style tests here in the states and has taken some of his own dogs to Germany and has tested them there and done very well. Link is vdritterburg.com. Give him a call.

As to Uncle Buck's pudelpointer's I have one from a previous litter and pleased enough to be considering another.
 
What the breeders are talking about is a hunt test. Similiar to a AKC junior hunter test, or a NAVDHA Natural Ability Test. Its just a way for the breeders to try to evaluate how there breeding program is coming along.

As to the rabbit track. Think about it this way. If your pup can track a live jack rabbit, which is bounding through the sage brush, feet only hitting the ground every 5ft or so in some kind of crazy criss cross random pattern that rabbits always seem to run in for say 100yds. Just how good to you think your dog is going to be tracking a wounded pheasant, whose legs are always on the ground, who is laying down a bigger scent, and who runs in much straighter lines.

The rabbit track is all about the ability for the dog to concentrate on a single,faint,difficult scent and follow it for a long ways. Its not about the hunting of rabbits per say, its about the rabbit being far and away the most difficult small game availible to track in some kind of semi controlled enviroment.
There is a reason that DD's are known to be amazing at recovering wounded birds.

I would say that probably close to 50% of the DD owners in north america at least don't hunt rabbits, but if your dog can track a rabbit it can track anything. And when it comes to breeding your not looking for a ok tracker, your looking for a great tracker....

Any other questions feel free to PM me.
 
Oregonbirdguy said:
What the breeders are talking about is a hunt test. Similiar to a AKC junior hunter test, or a NAVDHA Natural Ability Test. Its just a way for the breeders to try to evaluate how there breeding program is coming along.

As to the rabbit track. Think about it this way. If your pup can track a live jack rabbit, which is bounding through the sage brush, feet only hitting the ground every 5ft or so in some kind of crazy criss cross random pattern that rabbits always seem to run in for say 100yds. Just how good to you think your dog is going to be tracking a wounded pheasant, whose legs are always on the ground, who is laying down a bigger scent, and who runs in much straighter lines.

The rabbit track is all about the ability for the dog to concentrate on a single,faint,difficult scent and follow it for a long ways. Its not about the hunting of rabbits per say, its about the rabbit being far and away the most difficult small game availible to track in some kind of semi controlled enviroment.
There is a reason that DD's are known to be amazing at recovering wounded birds.

I would say that probably close to 50% of the DD owners in north america at least don't hunt rabbits, but if your dog can track a rabbit it can track anything. And when it comes to breeding your not looking for a ok tracker, your looking for a great tracker....

Any other questions feel free to PM me.
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If you train your dog to track a rabbit, and trial it working rabbit scent, thereby re-enforcing the trainin and reward. Then breed that do to other similarly rabbit oriented dogs, how do you ever stop it? Many years ago had a friend that accidentally shot a meadow lark which got up while his 6 month old pup was pointing, ( quail escaped unharmed), for a whole season we had the crackerjack meadow lark dog in NE Kansas! Took a lot of persuasion to fix that.
 
Good question, to me its fairly simple, if you don't want your dog chasing rabbits then you call them off the rabbit. I would say that alot of the people that go through the vdd only work there dogs on rabbits for the tests rest of the time its just birds....The tracking is about obedience,concentration and cooperation at its best....
Its really know different then any other breed, i might be wrong here but most of the hunting dogs that i have seen will throw down on rabbits,coons etc etc if given the chance, if trained not to then they won't.
I guess what i am saying is that i wouldn't worry too much about it as far as worrying about whether or not the dog will be a good bird dog.
If it does worry you that much there are other very similiar breeds that don't have the german testing....But i have found that most high drive dogs have to be taught not to chase rabbits and vermin regardless of breed.
 
Harvey Youngblood in Elko has one of my Pudelpointer pups if you want to look at one. Harvey has spoiled it rotten ie loves the now full grown dog.

I have found it easy to keep my dogs off rabbits and deer and the NAVHDAand AKC hunt tests do not require fur. I recommend either for any one with their first pointer. It's the free training you get. Just run the puppy/Natural ability test if you do not intend to breed and you will learn what you need to know re field training and will get help on obedience, bird tracking, retrieving etc. The Dratharr guys are proud of their breed standards and rightfully so. The Small Muensterlanders, Spimone and some other breeds are running thier own tests with breed clubs. There is The Pudelpointer Club of North America that does so too. I do not belong or test with them as they are a little clique-ish and do it all in Oregan or California--not practical. That's where NAVHDA comes in. In just about all states, standard test for all pointing breeds tho tend to the versitile dog.

OK THIS IS AN INFO-MERCIAL FOR PUDELPOINTERS. Having said I have them(easily) trained to stay off the rabbits and deer, my son recovered an arrowed six point bull elk the morning after with a Pud. Several have been recovered by a Pud in Wisconsin and Florida. They are generally easier to train than GWP or Drath. Note earlier comment on Drath. Great dogs,but may take a little more work than Griffon Pudelpointer etc. No rules here, just attributes of the breeds and know what you are getting into. See all kinds of Weims and Vizlas that do not want to get wet. If you want a vesitile dog, look at the NAVHDA records for the parents to see if they swam in the tests. That's why they run them.

I happen to have a litter of pups, males only available, on the ground one week old. The stud is a NAVHDA VC (Versitile Champion -perfect score). My rec is that you get a Griffon, Munsterlander or Pudelpointer. All love the water and the Griffs have made strong strides (thru NAVHDA BREEDERS) regarding their former bootlicking reputation. Totally undeserved IF YOU FIND THE RIGHT BREEDING. A GWP would not be the worst choice either. A DD is an up bred version of the GWP and you are going to have to join the club and it does not sound like you really want to.
 
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