CRP Haying Scenario - Right or Wrong?

CRP cutting

BigRand said:
Actually you do burn, graze, or mow early to cut down the cool season grasses. Cool season grasses are not what is desired in CRP fields but will out compete the warm season grasses by starting to grow earlier. Cool season grasses provided little in cover or help to wildlife so eliminating it is best. The best way to so that is early so the warm season grasses can come through. In essence you sacrifice one season for the success of the next four or five.
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Big Rand, my point was how the CRP lands are managed. Are you going to tell me the decisions they are making this year to graze or bale CRP are based on good management, are being made to benefit habitat?
 
benelli-banger said:
I looked it up...we spend 2.1 billion for fiscal year 2018 on CRP...24 million acres...average rate is about $88 per acre...I suspect that that represents about 2% of our federal outlay, which is about a trillion...I did the math, I am spending a lot more than $72/year...but I am very OK with that.
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And we can pay those billions every year, only to have the land come out of contract and be plowed under. Back to square one. Wildlife would be much farther ahead if we used the money to purchase and permanently manage erodable lands. Farmers would also, because it would help to limit the amount of land thrown back into crops when prices are high, helping to keep prices stable.
 
Tilkut said:
And we can pay those billions every year, only to have the land come out of contract and be plowed under. Back to square one. Wildlife would be much farther ahead if we used the money to purchase and permanently manage erodable lands. Farmers would also, because it would help to limit the amount of land thrown back into crops when prices are high, helping to keep prices stable.
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FWIW, CRP is usually either 10 or 15 year contracts, I believe. I don't disagree with your point. And I don't mind having two-tenths of one percent of my federal taxes go towards CRP...again, not 2%, but two-tenths of one percent...if you feel strongly, do something about it...the pissing and moaning that goes on on this board gets nothing done. I did buy a quarter 17 years ago and enrolled it in a perpetual conservation easement...I own it, and pay the taxes...but the land can never be developed or modified. It is in WRP. No longer an option within the USDA, but I think it was a great idea.
 
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Montana Husker said:
What is your definition of "externalized cost'? Second, to say "Farmers", you lump all together, just like most business, each has it's own way of doing things, some good, some bad. Third, who are you to tell me what I need to do for MY family to survive? Fourth, CRP funds do not go just to farmers...LOL, to think so is wrong.
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Husker, one small specific measurable example is the nitrate problem in water today caused by runoff from Ag fields. this is one small example. CRP is one tool to mitigate this instead of putting regulations on farmers. MN is about to pout regulations on farmers. In other states practices are voluntary.

Taxpayers fund Crop insurance, CSP and CRP to name a few in an effort to secure cheap low cost food and clean water. The guys producing record corn and soybean crops are probably the ones to look at. Especially those renting ground on 1 year leases.
 
Tilkut said:
Wildlife would be much farther ahead if we used the money to purchase and permanently manage erodable lands. Farmers would also, because it would help to limit the amount of land thrown back into crops when prices are high, helping to keep prices stable.
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One or the other will not work. You need many tools from low $ grass roots like PF to high rent CRP in some places. Permanent has its place. I have some of both. + CSP and WHIP acres.
 
Iowa has a thirty year easement program. We tried to get some in but it is a restoration program. Our land didn't need any restoration so it failed to get in.

They said if we tiled it we could get in. But they would have to break the tile.
 
UGUIDE said:
Husker, one small specific measurable example is the nitrate problem in water today caused by runoff from Ag fields. this is one small example. CRP is one tool to mitigate this instead of putting regulations on farmers. MN is about to pout regulations on farmers. In other states practices are voluntary.

Taxpayers fund Crop insurance, CSP and CRP to name a few in an effort to secure cheap low cost food and clean water. The guys producing record corn and soybean crops are probably the ones to look at. Especially those renting ground on 1 year leases.
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I believe CRP program was intended to take marginal land out of production, thus supporting prices for agricultural crops. There are other benefits to the program, but not the reason it was started. No doubt it is a boon to wildlife, but I do not believe taxpayers should have to pay the bill. The free market is a wonderful thing, as you know, people are very constructive without govt. interference, and the free market has a way of weeding out the good producers from the bad in my opinion.
 
Montana Husker said:
I believe CRP program was intended to take marginal land out of production, thus supporting prices for agricultural crops. There are other benefits to the program, but not the reason it was started. No doubt it is a boon to wildlife, but I do not believe taxpayers should have to pay the bill. The free market is a wonderful thing, as you know, people are very constructive without govt. interference, and the free market has a way of weeding out the good producers from the bad in my opinion.
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The free market is alive and kickin in AG and does weed out the weak. There are 43 different CRP practices with each one having and solving a different conservation issue. Free market is not solving the conservation issues.
 
McFarmer said:
Frequently here folks talk about pitching in and helping the farmer out, has anyone actually done that ? I mean, it's a good intention and all, but as a farmer I can't think of anything I would allow someone to walk onto the place and do.

Maybe mow the lawn.
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My brother and I helped pick up, haul in, and stack three trailers of irrigation pipe for a farmer in Montana last year. He said it took us a couple hours to do what would've taken him and his wife all day. We also help harvest raisins every year here at home and occasionally move a piece of equipment.
 
Uguide, are you asking if it's right or wrong to hay your CRP ground.....as the CRP contracts do allow for emergency haying of CRP in times of severe drought?
Or are you asking if it is right or wrong for the hunters to come out and hunt, knowing that due to the severe drought, approx 1/2 the huntable land they booked to hunt is not available, and that the pheasant numbers are down 40-60% ( from last season) per the late summer rural mail carrier survey?

I would post a message on my website detailing the drought, it's affect on the bird numbers (no insects for young chicks, less habitat for nesting and emergency haying of CRP)
Encourage your client's to keep their booked trips and be upfront about what to expect....less habitat and fewer birds. As far as offering a refund or reduced rates? I have no answer for that....however I would keep my rates the same, not offer refunds (as we have no control over the weather) But extend a extra day of hunting that way you keep your current bookings. Or possibly a small discount for similar booking for the following season? Maybe a gift card to Cabelas....
I've been in very similar situation for years in Kansas and Nebraska....

I think the well informed hunters that book with you every year will understand and hopefully you will not have few if any irate customers.
 
Thanks 20, I did go ahead and make a policy on my website. We like to think we treat our hunters like owners and if they owned the place what option would they have if encountered weather related hunting issues.

When you own it or group coop it you can't just up and sell the place that year and get another farm the next. It's a different mindset than typical retail. Everyone is at risk in the fair chase model.
 
Regarding the drought and it's effects on CRP, habitat and pheasant production. As a life long bird hunter, conservationist and landowner, I hate to see severe droughts!
However we have no control over weather patterns. Using Kansas as a recent example....in 2010 Kansas hunters harvested approx 900,000 pheasants. That was a excellent year and some of the highest numbers in Kansas history....The following year 2011....major drought set in and lasted till 2014. The pheasant harvest in 2014/15 was approx 150,000 birds....OUCH! From 2011 to 2015, Most or all counties in Kansas were eligible for emergency haying / grazing of CRP. The huntable acres was reduced drastically as the bird numbers plummeted as well from lack of habitat, no spring rain and no insects for young birds to eat. I myself did not hunt Kansas for 3-4 years in a row. It was sad to see all the CRP cut....but I had to respect that each landowner has their own set of problems to deal with and pheasant hunting was not high on the list.....compared to survival of livestock and turning a profit to keep your farm moving forward. The last 2 years the weather has been much improved in Kansas and our drought is long over...pheasant and quail numbers have rebounded....where good habitat exists. Kansas suffers the same issues we hunters see all over the USA....crops planted right up to the road, fence and tree rows plowed up to make room for additional crops, marginal land that once set fallow is now open to farm with insurance to back up failed crops. Road side ditches mowed and sprayed.

Habitat is the key to pheasant survival and the continued tradition of our beloved sport! Weather is out of our control and government programs come and go....

With much respect to our farmers and ranchers!
God bless the USA!

20bore
 
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