Bad Apples abound!

[gsh lover]

http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/Other-Services/Law-Enforcement/Officer's-Logbook

I have a feeling Kansans are about to become a lot less welcoming. If I get the opportunity to cast my vote against deer rifle season I'll do so. Sorry to all good NR's, but I would recruit ppl to ban NR rifle deer hunters after reading this mess.

KB,
As long as the state can make money off of the NR fees,then they won't do anything about this.I live in extreme SEK,and this has been a problem here for a long time.In fact it's got so bad,that the local game wardens have started pulling out of state tags over just to check them out.(during rifle season)I was talking to one of my farmer friends,and he said that his county road look like a freeway during the first weekrnd of rifle season,and mostly out of state hunters.And guess what,NO ONE had asked him for permission to hunt his land,which is all poached out anyway.
It really makes it hard for my two boys,who like to hunt deer,but can't find anyone who will let them,without having to pay a fee.
It's a sad state of affairs.

 

[V-John]

I honestly do NOT understand the BFD about deer antlers. What is so great about a set of deer antlers? I have found a few deer over the years, and heard of a lot more, that have the horns cut off and all the meat left behind. So stupid... If somebody holds deer in such high regard as to want to collect their antlers as a trophy, then why in the world would they be so disrespectful as to leave the entire body to rot in a ditch? Ridiculous...

My hat's off to the wardens. Thank you for your service to all of us.:thumbsup:

There is BIG MONEY in antlers, sheds and such. I have a buddy who boils out deer heads European style, and makes a decent amount of cash doing it. Sheds and such that I find, I'm to bring to him, and he'll sell them for me. He's told me the amount of money he can sell them for. It borders on obsurd.
Some of my closest friends, guys who I talk to every day are rangers. After reading this, it's frightening, and amazing how many times things end up at "gunpoint."
Thanks for posting this KsBritt.

 

[RJT]

sad

It happens in every state. My hunting partner's uncle is a game warden in New Mexico, and you should hear some of the stories. Dangerous job, and some unsavory characters with guns. He said any time he sees Louisiana plates, he knows there's a violation.

 

[BritChaser]

Bad Apples Gone for Good?

Hopefully, the NR bad apples' encounters with our NROs marked the end of their coming to Kansas.

 

[kansasbrittany]

Hopefully, the NR bad apples' encounters with our NROs marked the end of their coming to Kansas.

Yep, it sounded like the NRO's were frustrated and did all they could to make it a "memorable" day for them. My hat's off to those guys. They have some very important but incredibly dangerous jobs

 

[KsHusker]

Hopefully, the NR bad apples' encounters with our NROs marked the end of their coming to Kansas.

They'll keep coming as long as KS advertises theres a record book deer in every CRP field and behind every sage brush out west.


I drove 4 hours from Wichita to deer hunt and its still a circus there, though it wasnt as bad since I waited until the second weekend to hunt. Was told it was Ringling Bros x 10 opening week and weekend.

We need to encourage the state to fix the Hunt Your Own land deer permits and do away with them. Id just like to see a reduced fee white tail permit for people that are landowner/tenants and to see the requirements stiffen to be considered a land owner/tenant...Right now every city farmer or every out of stater who owns 80 acres (help me out Troy) I believe can qualify as a land owner tenant. Thats too lenient and leaves it far to open for abuses!

Land owner tenants should also not have free access to the either species either sex permits...they should have to draw for those like everyone else and either species permits should be kept to residents only. I DO NOT want rifle Mule deer hunting opened up to out of staters under any circumstances. I'll likely move if they do that.


We should also do away with guidling on WIHA's and public lands, and make out of staters purchase a separate permit to hunt on Walk in Lands. Our out of state license is too cheap. That or limit it to two 5 day periods like South Dakota does (or did - not sure if they still do that).

Fix some of our deer problems and we will fix some of the upland hunting problems.

 

[V-John]

We should also do away with guidling on WIHA's and public lands, and make out of staters purchase a separate permit to hunt on Walk in Lands. Our out of state license is too cheap. That or limit it to two 5 day periods like South Dakota does (or did - not sure if they still do that).

Fix some of our deer problems and we will fix some of the upland hunting problems.

+1!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dead pheasants forever]

It's unfortunate, but it seems like every state has problems with bad apple hunters. Here in CO, which is the only state to sell over the counter elk tags to nonresidents, we certainly have a circus on our hands when second rifle season begins. But I think that cutting off access to nonresidents is a very slippery slope. If all states started closing their doors to nonresidents, we'd all lose, both in hunting opportunities and economic impact. Just like CO residents love going over to KS to hunt pheasants, I know that plenty of KS residents come over here to elk hunt, trout fish, etc. I'd be in favor of higher license fees for nonresidents, with the extra money going to hiring more game wardens. I think the hunters caught willfully breaking the rules, like trespassers and hunters shooting hens or more than their limit, should never have the right to hunt in KS again. Step up enforcement and punishment. That way, you punish the bad apples and not the good apples.

 

[turtle]

Sorry but why should I have to pay for tags to shoot deer that I feed year round. What do you sportsman want next? Should I have to get a special tag at market price to sell whats left of my crops after the deer destroy most of it? Dont forget to tax me because my cows farted. Not trying to be an ass but go after the bad apple not the whole barrel. Maybe put the barrel to the outlaws head instead of pointing the finger at law abiding farmers who for a few days a year get to pursue the critters who eat their crop 365 days a year. For the record I always buy a full price tag so I can also contribute to the cause never used a hunt own land tag even on my own land, and carry a lifetime hunting and fishing licence. Maybe voice your opinion to the powers that be to stiffen the fines. Write a bad check jail time, poach wildlife $75 and 5 hours community service.

 

[henhenROOSTER!!!]

BALANCE - Food For Thought/Grain Of Salt

All of these things are true - there are a lot of @-hole hunters out there, BUT...please try to keep in mind that there seemed to be a bit of deliberate irony/sarcasm in the officer's logbook. Some WCO's seem to take great delight in being the clothesline "legalists", painting the worst possible spin on all hunters in general & looking only for the worst, ignoring any good. Just sayin...

 

[sas]

Seems to be a lot of ragging on the out of staters. No doubt there are some of them that have violated all sorts of hunting ethics and regulations. In all fairness I would have to say that the last 3 violations I have witnessed while bird hunting were committed by persons with Kansas tags eg hunting from car with window rolled down, on property without permission etc. A lot of locals know the probable location of the landowner, rare appearance of warden, etc. So it is not only the foreigners that are causing the problem. In some states (Texas) bird hunting country is drying up because the deer hunters are willing to pay high dollars for a lease. I see more of this every year in Kansas, property with lease signs that was open the previous year. Illegal events need to be addressed but it might be overkill to try to severely single out someone just because they live out of state. Pretty hard to judge someone by the name on their license plate.

 

[Tpharkman]

I always hate the "get rid of all non-resident hunters" rant. I can tell you that in my home state of Iowa the biggest poachers are resident hunters. I would venture to say that the same is true in Kansas.

I have seen beer cans thrown out of windows of vehicles with Kansas plates...I have seen guns shoot out the windows of vehicles with Kansas plates...my buddy had two locals drive down the road (on a four wheeler) shooting high powered rifle loads over his head while he was trying to fight off a diabetic seizure and I have to believe those boys were locals as well.

I have introduced many of my friends to hunting birds in Kansas and for the last ten years we have spent thousands of dollars in Kansas while mostly abiding by the rules. We are not renegades, on the contrary we are often more responsible hunters than some of our hosts. If my Kansas friends read this please know I got nothing but love for you, but y'all know you are some darn outlaws....lol!!!

The last time we were in Kansas right before New Years I heard a landowner recount a story of a group of 45 hunters, led by a resident hunter, who walked right through two fields of his neighbors on the way to the porch of his house shooting with reckless abandon. I am sure not everyone in the group was a Kansas resident but the guy lying about permission to hunt the ground they were on was a resident hunter. The landowner stopped us because he thought we were the renegades with our out of state plates. Fortunately for me I had stopped and introduced myself to this guy and given him a ham the year before. When he realized who he was talking to he smiled and changed his tune becuase he remembered the ham.

To blame and point the finger at only out of state hunters as the cause of all your problems is a lame and outdated argument.

 

[henhenROOSTER!!!]

The only piece of PRIME hunting land I ever owned (in PA & ridiculously loaded to the hilt w/deer & turkeys)...100% of the problems (and there were a LOT of them over the decade that I had it) were all with residents, mostly locals!!! Never had a single encounter with a non-resident!

Yes there are non-resident outlaws as well as resident/local ones, but I think the vast majority of non-residents visiting in another state want to make a good impression with an invite back & don't really want any kind of trouble in a strange, faraway-from-home environment...The residents/locals are the ones who know the ropes - who's home/who's not, how heavily patrolled, ect...It is a bit eye-opening how many times when non-residents get into trouble, it turns out to be with the help/encouragement of a local "friend", "guide" or "landowner"! Just sayin...

 

[KsHusker]

So it is not only the foreigners that are causing the problem. In some states (Texas) bird hunting country is drying up because the deer hunters are willing to pay high dollars for a lease. I see more of this every year in Kansas, property with lease signs that was open the previous year.

I'll give you one guess on who's responsible for the majority of leasing you see?

 

[KsHusker]

Sorry but why should I have to pay for tags to shoot deer that I feed year round. What do you sportsman want next? Should I have to get a special tag at market price to sell whats left of my crops after the deer destroy most of it? Dont forget to tax me because my cows farted. Not trying to be an ass but go after the bad apple not the whole barrel. Maybe put the barrel to the outlaws head instead of pointing the finger at law abiding farmers who for a few days a year get to pursue the critters who eat their crop 365 days a year. For the record I always buy a full price tag so I can also contribute to the cause never used a hunt own land tag even on my own land, and carry a lifetime hunting and fishing licence. Maybe voice your opinion to the powers that be to stiffen the fines. Write a bad check jail time, poach wildlife $75 and 5 hours community service.

What I was implying was actually liberalizing the Hunt your own land system a bit. Right now its very open to fraud and as evidenced by a lot of stories Ive heard and busts Ive read about. I believe its the most abused deer tag the state sells at the moment. We did away with T-Tags and that was a start.

What I propose would be more than fair. If you are a resident land owner/tenant - you get to buy a "WHITE TAIL " only tag at a reduced price and its good not just for your land but is valid wherever a general resident deer license is unless you are a non resident tenant/landowner then you are restricted to a unit and treated to the same rules as a general non resident deer license. Since mule deer are (bucks especially) not as numerous and everyone else has to apply for a mule deer tag the land owner should as well, with the resident land owners and non resident land owners being held to the same standard as their respected counterparts.

I would think you would agree with me on this if you are a farmer or rancher; but the definition of a landowner tenant is too broad and needs to be narrowed. If you own/farm 80 acres that should not qualify you as a landowner/tenant. The land ownership requirement should be higher and there should be a way to verify it.

The state picks and chooses on what they are liberal on....Why dont they automatically give out landowner tenant tags for Bull Elk or Antelope? They dont and they shouldnt. Their job is to manage the resource. They have not done that good of a job as of late with the deer herd and need to improve.

Closing loopholes in the deer permit system is one way to start. I think getting rid of T-Tags helped to ease some of the leasing pressure - (at least I hope). Now changing the landowner/tenant tag rules will help fix another problem area.

As far as you feeding the deer all year I agree with your argument, but that only holds its full weight if you are not receiving any form of agricultural govt subsidies. Dont take it personal, and it is probably deserving of another thread but I do not believe in subsidizing cheap food. Id rather pay less taxes and let the marketplace determine the price of food rather than the govt artificially lowering it.

 

[BritChaser]

Yep, it sounded like the NRO's were frustrated and did all they could to make it a "memorable" day for them. My hat's off to those guys. They have some very important but incredibly dangerous jobs

Yep. Every encounter is with armed people.

 

[kansasbrittany]

I always hate the "get rid of all non-resident hunters" rant. I can tell you that in my home state of Iowa the biggest poachers are resident hunters. I would venture to say that the same is true in Kansas.

QUOTE]

I would venture to say you're correct.

Now that everyone has their R vs. NR comments out in the open, I think we should just put those arguments to bed.

 

[oldandnew]

I have found over the years that there is no geological, man made, or heavenly enforced limit or boundry to boorish, rude behavior. I'd like to encourage my youngsters to take each person at face value, assume the best, and give them the opportunity to prove themselves either way. I get fooled sometimes, but I get surprised more often. Bad actors are either non-thinking individuals, or rotten to the core, but fortunately, still a minority. As in all things, peer group pressure, works to minimize the action, failing that, I learned young that a Nun with a ruler works as well, but with less subtlely! We used to talk about policing ourselves in the outdoor sports, not so much confronting armed and potentially dangerous suspects, though I've done it, in my youth, but in the conduct and behavior of those in our group, or among our acquaintences, what we allow to pass and what we choose to object to. Old idea, maybe out of date, like me! We can't tolerate this sort of thing, and hope to preserve a lifestyle we cherish. Some of the incidences as depicted in the articles published in the KWPD blog, and Iowa DNR blog, completely astound me as to the planning and criminal intent and effort. It almost defies belief. These people have way to much money and time, and more than a little larceny. We can not allow these people to be the "face" of the sport.

 

[swellcat]

Provided target for those participating in the road hunting experience, one satisfied customer within the first ten hours of season opening. A truly authentic experience right up and until the moment immediately after a shot is taken and the "deer" continues its curious stare in the direction of the shooter. Begs creation of an acronym for the not rare enough occurrence, "LLB" for Let the Laughter Begin! Some days I go to work just for my own entertainment, too bad it is not a spectator sport.

Pretty colorful writing — a long way from, "Just the facts, Ma'am."

 

[Jack]

I read the blog, and scanned thru the replies. It amazes me how disrespectful men have become. I grew up hunting in Virginia and taught by my dad to never kill anything I wouldn't eat, always ask for permission of land owners, and to never leave any evidence I was there. Everyone, which was mostly family, we hunted with was all the same. Would never break a hunting law or tear up or trash the land. Just good ol hill billies loving the hunt and companionship. At 47, I'm still a bit nieve thinking most people are like me. The blog was a real eye opener. I really didn't think a game warden would be that busy. I think one of the best ways to stop this is very simple.

Let all hunters know one thing. YOU will get caught, and there WILL be STRONG NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES. Best way to do this is to have it plastered all over the news papers, local news stations. JAIL should be mandatory for blatent dis-regard. i.e. lying about not having a gun, only for a k-9 to find it, peppering someones house, poaching, etc. I absolutely have no mercy on those types. That's the only way we gentlemen sportsman are going to keep our hunting rights, resident and non-resident.

I now live in Louisiana, and no, when you see my license plate, it will not mean an automatic violation.

Jack