Ammo debate

geno said:
kansas, do you mean the kent ultimate pheasant load-the 1 3/8 ounce 12 gauge shell? I got a deal on them for $10 a box and will use them this year in place of the federal pheasants forever 1 3/8 ounce load which are now around $18 and report back on the results. I expect they will work fine as i bought a couple of these boxes at a gun shop in sd south of watertown called i think koon's roost or korner roost, something like that? They must think highly of them. Kent has a good name and i wouldn't skimp on paying for good shells, it's about the least of the total cost.
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kone's corner
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W463
 
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Hard to swallow looking at shells when I grew up at a dime apiece. The plus side is maybe we won't empty our gun at those out of range shots and leave so many cripples. If you buy a box a month over the year it doesn't seem quite as bad and you might accidentally catch some on sale.

Here's what we have been shooting and I'll give the specs for you folks that are interested.

12 ga. Reminton nitro turkey 3" 1 7/8 1210 fps. These are in a green hull in case you see any lying around. My favorite load till I wimped out and couldn't tote, etc, a 12 anymore.

12 ga. Winchester turkey load 3" 1 3/4 1300 fps.

20 ga. Federal turkey load 3" 1 5/16 1185 fps.

Fiocchi 3" 1 1/4 1200 fps nickel plated

Fiocchi is making a shell for Gander Mt. now but I have not tried it.

If I had my choice of gun and shell I would shot the 12 with the "greenies."
Mr. Rooster is dead in his tracks when you connect with them.

Hope everybody needs a of them next month. Enjoy the posts.
 
Wow, 1 7/8 ounce turkey loads, bet that is one hell of a kick.

Forgot to mention, used the Remington Heavy shot on some wetlands. Shot both barrels on a rooster and missed, there goes five bucks. Finally connected later that day, talk about knocking dead. Forty yard shot, should have opened the choke to skeet and IC, that stuff has some real knock down power and tight.
 
I heard a guy on TV say that load I was shooting and my gun had the kick of an elephant gun. Talked myself into a 20 and try to aim better.
 
sas,

Are you shooting those turkey loads at pheasants? Man, that's total overkill in my book. I never use more than 1.25 oz. in 12 ga. and I kill a lot of birds each year. The fact that the turkey loads are made to pattern very tight, even shooting a more open choke will probably result in a fairly tight pattern. I have not doubt Mr. Rooster is dead when you connect. But, you probably also shoot the bird up pretty bad and my guess is you also miss a fair number of birds. I like the Federal Pheasants Forver loads, 2 3/4", 1.25 oz. of copperplated shot at 1,500 fps and I shoot them through a Improved Cylinder choke. My guess is that you would shoot better with this type of load and choke and also save yourself some money. Just my humble opinion! :)
 
I like the tight pattern so I can shoot them in the head and not tear up the body. (Wishful, just kidding) We generally shoot IC or Mod. and depending on time of year, pointing or flushing etc try to figure out what #shot etc. Tearing up hasn't been a big problem because by the time I get my gun up they are usually out there a ways. Real interesting if we jump a covey of quail. Appreciate your thoughts.
 
Dakotazeb said:
sas,

Are you shooting those turkey loads at pheasants? Man, that's total overkill in my book. I never use more than 1.25 oz. in 12 ga. and I kill a lot of birds each year. The fact that the turkey loads are made to pattern very tight, even shooting a more open choke will probably result in a fairly tight pattern. I have not doubt Mr. Rooster is dead when you connect. But, you probably also shoot the bird up pretty bad and my guess is you also miss a fair number of birds. I like the Federal Pheasants Forver loads, 2 3/4", 1.25 oz. of copperplated shot at 1,500 fps and I shoot them through a Improved Cylinder choke. My guess is that you would shoot better with this type of load and choke and also save yourself some money. Just my humble opinion! :)
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Late season windy conditions I shoot Federal Premium's lead 3" Deuces or BB's. The bird is usually far enough away that it doesn't tear them to shred's and the shells are hi-velocity enough that almost all of the shot passes clean through them. I'm a pretty big guy so the recoil doesn't really bother my shooting ability. I have had a bunch of people shoot the Federal Premium 2.75" 6's that move at 1500 fps out of my Beretta Model A301 and they won't shoot the gun anymore because of the kick. I used to carry it and shoot those shells all day with no problems. If I do miss it's usually an error that I did myself not the recoil factor. I'm a snap shot so I've been working on slowing down when a bird flushes and taking my time to aim more and not point and shoot. I can kill a ton of quail being a snap shot but I want to improve my shot to rooster ratio. Sorry just my .2 cents on the subject..
 
I had some old 2 3/4 inch turkey load I used up a couple of years ago. I believe it was 1 5/8 oz. I killed a couple of birds with it. But I think I would have killed those birds with regular pheasant load.
 
sas said:
I heard a guy on TV say that load I was shooting and my gun had the kick of an elephant gun.
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I think he was right. I went out to "pattern" my turkey gun once. One shot at paper, and I wasn't going to shoot again! You don't really feel the recoil when you are shooting at a live bird, but when it's just a piece of paper I thought I might dislocate my arm.:eek: I had a pump gun with a 3.5" chamber, so I got the biggest turkey shells I could find... :laugh: Young, dumb....
 
KansasUplandHunter said:
For years while hunting, my buddies and I have always discussed ammo. (ie.. brands, size, lead-steel-bizmuth blah blah blah! I've always been the one who buys with my wallet in mind. Until last year I've always shot wally world brands. A buddy of mine introduced me to Fiochi's during a late season hunt last year and It's like a whole new world, more power, distance it was great until I looked at the price of the shells. So this year I am going to lighten my wallet and purchase KENT shells, not quite as expensive but not the cheapest either. Does anyone have experience shooting these shells. I would love some feedback
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I use them along with the Federal Wingshok when I can find what I want.

I think the Kent's do a good job. It's not plated lead ala copper or nickel, but it is polished hard shot. I think Kent calls it "Diamond" shot.

If you can buy it early Sept/Oct you can usually find quite a variety in load/shot sizes. At least that seems to be what I have experienced at the Cabela's near me. As the season wears on the selections usually dwindle. My favorite in the Kent is the 1 3/8 load of #5, kills em dead when I do my part.
 
The bigger thing that should be discussed is what is in the shell... Copper or nickel coated shells is the only way to go for pheasent.... I am a traditional pheasent hunter (SxS 20ga, 28ga and .420ga SxS only). I have guided many hunts and have been the 5th shooter with all of them using 12ga 3inch 4 or 5's and killed them further and with one shot. I typically buy the Fedral copper coated 6's or 5's 2 3/4 inch but will shoot 3inch later in the year. I will say i love the Fioch golden pheasents as well.. I will give you a hint. At the end of the season go to WM and you will find the fedrals that are normally 15 per box for as low as 6 per box... I bought 12 boxes of copper 5's 3 inch that retail for 16 per box for 5.50 in February.

I have also patterned all of the shells i use through my guns at 20, 40, 60 and 80 yards and i have 26% more BB's in the pattern than with straight lead.
 
I bought some Fiochi shells for myself and a hunting buddy a month or so ago to try for the first time. I haven't used premium shells before so I am sure I will be happy with the results. I also like the fact that Fiochi is made in the USA, Missouri if I am not mistaken.:)
 
My vote is for the Fiochi "Golden Pheasant" loads. I kill over 100 wild pheasants every year and have been using this load exclusively for the last 7-8 years. 2 ¾�, #5 nickel plated shot. IC in the bottom barrel M in the top. I get good clean kills even at very long distances with even with the IC tube. I think the biggest key to clean kills is to focus on the head. A pheasant is about 2.5 feet from nose to tail. I notice that our hunters start shooting better after I encourage them to slow down and really focus on the birds head. Remember to move-mount-shoot.......not mount-aim-miss!

Stay away from the cheap stuff. Soft shot, poor wads, and cheap powder. All adds up to lots of deformed pellets, blown patterns, and more crippled birds.
 
I hunted with some guys over the last few days that used 6's, 7's & 7 1/2 with o/u's. We searched for cripples all day. The sad thing is I got after the birds and the dogs got after the birds right away. I use Golden Pheasant loads 4's & 5's depending on the situation and season and I've knocked em' dead without question and no runners all season. So far this year in South Dakota I've harvested 24 roosters and there has been zero runners. Historically I used Estate loads (which was the cheap stuff) and I seemed to get more runners & cripples. I'm interested to see how late season turns out with Golden Pheasant loads. Birds late season seem a bit tougher late season.
 
Great thread. I use Kent Diamond Shot Traditional Upland in #4 and #5. I don't see it on their website anymore, so I bought all I could fine (a case of #5 and a half case of #4) to last me a few years (I shoot 2-3 boxes/year). I tried their new Fast Lead pushing 1 3/8 oz of shot at 1475 fps. The recoild in my ultralight OU was shocking for a 2 3/4 inch shell. The gun tips the scale at 5.7 lbs. Even though I tip the scale at about 215 pounds MORE than that (LOL!) it still made recovery and follow up for a second shot difficult. I don't shoot high-volume, so soreness would not be much of an issue, but I also figured these shells had to be a bit hard on the gun (esp where much of it is alloy). The pattern was not great (nothing official, just fired at an old cardboard box and found that the pattern seemed to have some pretty good holes in it and was kinda irregular overall) but I figured the extra speed would make up for it. I was right. The extra speed kills birds. It also seems to tear them to shreds. After two "soup birds" I went back to the slightly slower Traditional Upland and it kills just fine (when I shoot well). The dog has to do her part once in a while, so if I was hunting without a dog I might stick with the Fast Lead just to avoid losing birds, but it sure is a pity to tear them up like that!
 
overkill

I really believe you young-uns are generally wrong. I can remember killing many a bird with trapload 6"s. Why punish your shoulder and your ears for that matter? You don't need heavy loads to kill birds. Personally, I think you'll kill just as many, just as dead, with pidgeon loads with good components. You guys can call me geezer.
 
The Kent fastlead has worked extremely well for my son and I but my Benelli seems to prefer the Federal PF loads. Not to many runners with 5's early in the season and 4's later.
 
Evening gents...

I have never tried the Fiochi loads...

My prefered load for upland game has been Winchester SuperX high brass:
Pheasant #5 (20ga) or #6 (12ga)
Quail #8 (20ga)

Recently purchased several boxes (on sale) of Winchester copper plated pheasant loads # 5 & #6...have not used them yet.

Have been shooting an old Browning A5 (light 12) for years...

Recently purchased a Benelli Montefeltro Silver (20ga)...I like it's weight and balance and the inertia drive system is very nice.

BH68
 
I'd suggest everyone patterns the loads they plan to hunt with. Plated shot (which kent ain't) is worth the money not only cause it patterns better but it deforms less, and draws less feathers both help with penetration. Also alot of people shoot too tight of chokes. Can't imagine going above improved cylinder or light mod.
 
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