16 ga. Ammo
- Thread starter Dakotazeb
- Start date
bobeyerite
New member
I hate to see my 20 gauge getting the hell knocked out of it. For me it has been and will continue to be a great gun. I agree with a lot of what George has said. I do think there is one variable here nobody has touched on. Both Dakotas are notorious for taking longer shots that most anyplace else. I know in shooting Trap from the 27 yard line. I use a full choke and a 1 ounce 1200 FPS load and I can usually get 22 or so. With that being said, I do believe a gun, no matter how basically superior it is on paper. It is the person shooting it that is the deciding factor. I use almost the same load hunting. It is 1 ounce and 1220 FPS and I have and can get a birds with that load.---Bob
jnormanh
New member
22 from the 27 yard line is better than most trap shooters can do with their 12 guages. Hell, most of them never step on the 27. I'll bet you can kill a higher percentage of pheasants than most 12 ga shooters too.
I miss my share of birds, but I don't believe it was ever because I was shooting too little gun. I know for a fact that a 28 ga will kill honkers and turkeys just fine. 7.5s in the head, and they drop like a rock.
It's not the arrows, It's Indian behind the bow that counts.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
Bob,
I'm certainly not knocking the 20 gauge. I was just defending the 16. Maybe I took jnormanh's post incorrectly, but to me he was knocking the 16.
Onpoint's quote:
This was a correct quote from days gone by. jnormanh also didn't have his facts straight in the original post when he said the Model 12 16 gauge was on a 12 gauge frame. I was just trying to set the facts straight. Didn't mean to offend anyone.
Bob, you are absolutely correct when you say it's the person stooting the gun that is the deciding factor. It's not all about payload and how hard they hit. If that was the case we'd all be shooting 3 1/2 inch mags for pheasants.
bobeyerite
New member
Fact George; I have never shot a 3 inch Mag. I got some for Turkey and never shot them so. I gave to my son who still hunts turkey.
Fact, I have killed more birds and have shot better in general with my 20's. Than I ever did with a 12 gauge. Under the "Stories Thread", read "Making of A Bird Dog." That was shot with a 12 gauge and the proof is there.
My Pheasant loads are as I said 1220 1 ounce of shot only I cheat. I use 7 shot. Not 7.5, but 7 shot. In my 20 gauge they are deadly for me. I have done so well with them. My eldest son is looking for a bag of 7 shot. Since Sportsmans closed he can not find it here in Spokane. So it looks like my shot supply will get raided. I use them for my first shot followed by a 6 shot. It works for me.----Bob
Fact, I have killed more birds and have shot better in general with my 20's. Than I ever did with a 12 gauge. Under the "Stories Thread", read "Making of A Bird Dog." That was shot with a 12 gauge and the proof is there.
My Pheasant loads are as I said 1220 1 ounce of shot only I cheat. I use 7 shot. Not 7.5, but 7 shot. In my 20 gauge they are deadly for me. I have done so well with them. My eldest son is looking for a bag of 7 shot. Since Sportsmans closed he can not find it here in Spokane. So it looks like my shot supply will get raided. I use them for my first shot followed by a 6 shot. It works for me.----Bob
onpoint
Active member
Well, if you knew anything about a model 12 Winchester. You would know that the 16 is built on the 20ga frame and because of the larger diameter 16 shell, more metal was removed to accomidate the 16ga shell. Thus the 16 weighs less than the 20.
Also, the slogan was for when you carried the gun with the same weight pay load. Like say a 11/4oz load of pheasant killing shot. The 16 carried like a 20 and hit like a 12. Thus, this is why model 12 16ga's demand a fair price for one in good shape with proper choke restriction
Ah, the Sweet 16 A5 Browning is another fine case for this argument
onpoint
Active member
Here is a couple of pics of my model 12 12 ga and my model 12 16 ga. They don't do real justice to the real size difference between the 12 & 16 or the heft that one could feel handling the guns themselves, but trust me. The 12 is a tank compared to the 16. The 16 is truly a joy to carry and it swings like few others. Only the Ithaca 37 Ultra-Featherwight 20ga with the Alloy receiver, the Franchi 48AL 20ga auto, Benelli Montifeltro 20ga auto or the Browning A5 20ga or Sweet 16 auto can really compare(pump's & auto's).
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jnormanh
New member
Apples/Oranges.
Of course that 12 ga seems clunkier than the 16 ga. Look at the difference in barrel length. Take a hacksaw and knock several inches off the 12, cut it down to the same length as the 16, and It'll swing a lot quicker, maybe almost as easy as the 16, but it'll still hit like a 12, and the 16 will still hit like a 16.
The bottom line is, if you want to shoot a gun that hits like a 12, you have to shoot a 12...or a 10.
If you're happy with a gun that hits like a 20, then why fool around trying to find ammunition for a 16? Shoot a 20. M12, if you like.
The M12 is a great classic gun, well designed and built, no question. You still see some die-hard trapshooters putting up good scores with their pre-1964 12 ga M12s. In fact I watched an old codger, (like me put all the youngsters in that shade just last week with his M12, and that gun must have a half million shells through it by now.....BUT you'll never, ever see them shooting a 16, although it's perfectly legal, and can shoot the same 1-1/8 oz. load.
The 16 is a curiosity, almost like the 14 ga. There was a time, 60 years ago, when it might have hit almost like a 12, but today it deserves a place of honor, hanging over the fireplace.
If you want a really quick handling, lightweight gun, shoot one of those 5.5# Spanish doubles like an AYA.
Of course that 12 ga seems clunkier than the 16 ga. Look at the difference in barrel length. Take a hacksaw and knock several inches off the 12, cut it down to the same length as the 16, and It'll swing a lot quicker, maybe almost as easy as the 16, but it'll still hit like a 12, and the 16 will still hit like a 16.
The bottom line is, if you want to shoot a gun that hits like a 12, you have to shoot a 12...or a 10.
If you're happy with a gun that hits like a 20, then why fool around trying to find ammunition for a 16? Shoot a 20. M12, if you like.
The M12 is a great classic gun, well designed and built, no question. You still see some die-hard trapshooters putting up good scores with their pre-1964 12 ga M12s. In fact I watched an old codger, (like me
put all the youngsters in that shade just last week with his M12, and that gun must have a half million shells through it by now.....BUT you'll never, ever see them shooting a 16, although it's perfectly legal, and can shoot the same 1-1/8 oz. load. The 16 is a curiosity, almost like the 14 ga. There was a time, 60 years ago, when it might have hit almost like a 12, but today it deserves a place of honor, hanging over the fireplace.
If you want a really quick handling, lightweight gun, shoot one of those 5.5# Spanish doubles like an AYA.
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jnormanh
New member
Why the anger toward 16 gauges?
Shooters hunt with 12 and 20 guages, hunters hunt with 16 guages
Not very many.
bobeyerite
New member
With all that has been said to me, a true sportsman hunts with a 28 gauge O/U . Saves the 20 gauge for real windy days....Bob
onpoint
Active member
Apples/Oranges.
Of course that 12 ga seems clunkier than the 16 ga. Look at the difference in barrel length. Take a hacksaw and knock several inches off the 12, cut it down to the same length as the 16, and It'll swing a lot quicker, maybe almost as easy as the 16, but it'll still hit like a 12, and the 16 will still hit like a 16.
The bottom line is, if you want to shoot a gun that hits like a 12, you have to shoot a 12...or a 10.
If you're happy with a gun that hits like a 20, then why fool around trying to find ammunition for a 16? Shoot a 20. M12, if you like.
The M12 is a great classic gun, well designed and built, no question. You still see some die-hard trapshooters putting up good scores with their pre-1964 12 ga M12s. In fact I watched an old codger, (like me
The 16 is a curiosity, almost like the 14 ga. There was a time, 60 years ago, when it might have hit almost like a 12, but today it deserves a place of honor, hanging over the fireplace.
If you want a really quick handling, lightweight gun, shoot one of those 5.5# Spanish doubles like an AYA.
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Quote
" but today it deserves a place of honor, hanging over the fireplace."
Oh Brother..Roll eye's...I see that comment inflaming a few folks
obvously you know best..LOL.... IMO....mmmm Never mind
Have a great day
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benelli-banger
Well-known member
went to the gun library in mitchell on saturday...was going to buy a merkel 47e 12 gauge...made the mistake of shouldering a merkel 1620. now I am planning on buying that instead, it was too compelling...wow! Like I told the salesman, my brain said I needed the 12 gauge, but my heart said I needed the 16. It really felt good....really, really good. I have plenty of 12's, 16's, and 20's already, so I know what I can do with them on birds and on targets. That 1620...wow...I can't wait to waltz her through the uplands!!! (and smuggle her into my bunk later!).
JMc
Super Moderator
As most of you know...I'm not one to shy away from an argument; however, its seems as if we may be taking this "hits like" comment a little far. I have a safe full of 20's, 1-28, a couple of 12's and a Browning Feather 16 O/U. I hunt pheasant with the 16 and really don't care what it hits like; I just know it hits. I'm more concerned about dead birds and bird count. Limit everytime and that's good enough for me and my short tailed hunting buddy Taz. Besides that, I can't remember a wounded pheasant ever telling me that had I used a 12, he would be dead... Was a 10ga metioned...geez, IMHO Shoot what you want, when you want, at what you want.
Was a 10ga metioned...geez, IMHO Shoot what you want, when you want, at what you want.benelli-banger
Well-known member
As most of you know...I'm not one to shy away from an argument; however, its seems as if we may be taking this "hits like" comment a little far. I have a safe full of 20's, 1-28, a couple of 12's and a Browning Feather 16 O/U. I hunt pheasant with the 16 and really don't care what it hits like; I just know it hits. I'm more concerned about dead birds and bird count. Limit everytime and that's good enough for me and my short tailed hunting buddy Taz. Besides that, I can't remember a wounded pheasant ever telling me that had I used a 12, he would be dead...
great point. It might be different if we were market hunting, and had to harvest 50 or 100 or 200 birds a day. Depending on what a guy is hunting, and where, we may be talking about shooting anywhere from one to as many as 5 or maybe 10 birds in a day, but more than likely on the lower end of that range. And if a bird or two are allowed to fly away because the range was questionable, I guess that means that a guy gets to spend a little more time out in the field, following his best friend around.
gundogdixie
New member
Here in Georgia
I checked on the #5's in the new Federal pheasant load the other day. I found one local store that could order them for (drum roll please) $245 a flat. I'll be loading my own pheasant loads from now on.
I checked on the #5's in the new Federal pheasant load the other day. I found one local store that could order them for (drum roll please) $245 a flat. I'll be loading my own pheasant loads from now on.
gundogdixie
New member
I suggest you do a little more research on 16 gauge before you relegate it to the fireplace. But do this only if you are interested in knowing the truth.