The newbi thread. Post your newbi huntin dog advice!!

M

Mordis

New member
Well, I figured that since im new to the hunting thing and would like to get a upland dog in the next year or so, that i would post this thread that any future newbs like me could search for and use for guideance on dog selection.

So here is my questions.

1. Which style is better for a begginer to bird hunting, flusher or pointer? My only hunting dog, a beagle, they are not known for being very bidable and do not work closely to the handler(at least my dosent).

2. Compared to beagles, how trainable are the hunting breeds? Good lord my rescue beagle is proving to be very difficult. Prolly gonna have to resort to e-collar training.

3. Which ones are multi use. I would like to do some water fowl/geese and would like something that can be used as a retriever for those situations.(of course nothing beats the chessie for artic cold waters, but for all the other situations lol) I would also like something that could also do a decent job of rabbit hunting. From what i have read the eureopean versitiles all would point flush retrieve both fur and feathers. I know i have a beagle for hunting bunnies, but would like something different when the mood strikes me.

4. Why is the GSP so popular and not the GWP and GLP? I would imagine that the GWP and the GLP would have a easier time with cold weather/water due to there longer hair. Do all the german pointer breeds train and act the same or is there some significant difference between them tempermentaly?

5. What about the flushers, the one that i know of is the ESS. I live a bout an hour from Boberosa kennels and if i purchased a ESS would be from them. I know that there close working flushers(from the videos i have seen) that require you to watch the dog closely to get the cues that it is on the trail and is about to flush. You have to pay extra attention(from what i gather anyways from the videos) if you wanna get a shot at a decent range.

6. How biddable are the ESS? Tempermentaly speaking are they good with kids and other dogs? Same question goes for the German pointers breeds.

7. Should i train them my self or pay someone to train them? Im having a heck of a time with the beagle, and dont have much confidence in my training abilities.

Thats all the questions i can think of at this time. I intend to wait a minimum of 1 year maybe a little longer before i start looking for a second hunting dog and am just looking for some advice and information ahead of time so i can make a better informed descion and help guide me in my research ahead of time. I Look forward to your answeres and your other advice on hunting dogs. Thanks again for taking the time to read this and sorry for the wall of text.
 
Welcome to hunting, First off what are you going for just upland birds or are you wanting to duck hunt also? If so Lab would be a good choice Im not a fan of labs but alot of other are.
I have a weimaraner very good dog but the breed is very hyper(mine is not) They are very trainable. But they are stubborn and can actually out smart you. I grew up hunting behind a English sprinnger spanial(ESS) and a GSP. The shorhair was probably the best dog I have ever been around. My spanial learned from the GSP. and learned to point instead of flushing. ESS are great with everyone and everything. I prefer pointing, but both have there good/bad to them. As for training I have never had someone else train them. I find training them your self is half the fun. But of course my dogs arent the best out there but they have done the job. One other point I have found out and still find myself doing is trying to control the dog instead of letting the dog do its job 9 times out of 10 the dog will be right. Hope this helped.
 
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For what you described I would definitely recommend a ESS. They are great bird dogs, water retrievers (in moderate weather), and you may have opened a can of worms here (i did when I was new here), great rabbit dogs. The bidability will depend on the dogs personality. My male was the dominate dog of his litter and can be hard headed at times. The interaction will with other dogs and kids will depend on proper socialization. My dog hunts fine with others, but doesn't due well during idle times. I admit that I did drop the ball on his socialization though, don't make the same mistake as me with any breed of dog.
 
I kinda thought that the ESS would have better cold weather resistance due to what i see as a thicker coat. I am defineatly leaning towards a ESS but im not the fastest walker on the planet and am kinda worried about my abilitie to keep up with one. Im in shape... a nice round shape... Working on it but i got a ways to go lol.
 
First off welcome and I hope this site serves you well in answering any future questions you may have. If I were you and looking for a dog I would look towards a flusher for you needs, many of your likes and interests sway more to the flushing dog side of the house. I myself am a pointer guy owning two GSPs but I think for all that you want to do with a dog you would be better suited getting a flushing breed. I don't know that you will be able to get a pointer to ever reach full potential for birds when you want it to point and chase rabbits. I think many of the flushers would excel here as they are driven by the chase and although they do have great self control the flush or jump is what really gets thier rocks off so to speak. Also with you wanting to do a good bit of waterfowl hunting you are going to need a hardy dog in the cold waters and most pointers are built for covering big ground all day, so they lack in the waterproofing department. If you were to decide later on that you wanted to only use your new dog for upland bird hunting then I would by all means go with a pointing dog. Whatever it is that you choose make it something that you enjoy and be good to it and it will be good in return. Most all the breeds now days as long as they are from reputable breeder are good with temperment and other things of the sorts. A lot of how the dog will be will greatly depend on how you socialize it as others have said and how many different situations you put it in. If you find that training your dog is too difficult for you and you are not getting the results you want after you have had the dog some time then by all means you can take it to a professional to get the desired results. I think with a little studying and some more answers from the great guys on here you will be able to answer a lot of your questions and make a good decision on what your next hunting partner will be. Good luck and happy hunting.
 
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ive hunted behind English retriever, black labs, golden retriever and a GSP, now with all those, i chosed to get another GSP bc of their versatility, nose, and their running capabilties... some dogs get worn out by an hour or 2 of hunting. some GSP never tire or that i know of. GSP has several bloods from various of dogs... one of them is a weimaraner breed...

but this doesnt mean your dog is excluded to be a hunting dog. i have seen people on this board post that their rat terror is a hunter as well and retrieves pheasants with no problem. so just because GSP are designed for hunting doesnt mean your dog is excluded if its not a brittany, GSP, GWP, ESS or any gun dog they call out there.

i wont be quick to call a dog not a hunting dog unless you can prove to me that this dog wont hunt then i will say it. other than that, any dog can hunt if they are capable of retrieving and not waste its energy on one bird to retrieve.
 
4) GWP is a better retriever than a GSP. GWP do not do well in a Kennel they much prefer the house and being close to their master. GSP make ok kennel dogs but are very good escape artists! All the german pointers are fairly high strung and need to be run every day for them to be a real good behavior. If I run my GWP 2 to 3 miles after work he is relaxed and sleeping in the house, if I don't he is restless. He never tires when hunting though.

6) Temperment if they are involved with kids when the are being socialized as a pup, most are very good with kids.

7) If you don't know what your doing training PAY SOMEONE! A hunting dog will be with you probably ten years and a well trained dog is much more enjoyable and if you base the fee on ten years it isn't that bad. Ever consider a started dog?

I think good place to look is the AKC website and check out all the breeds you are thinking about.

http://www.akc.org/breeds/index.cfm?nav_area=breeds
 
Hunting4fun, my issue is with my beagle is he learns quickly on leash... but the moment i get him off leash i dont exist, nor does the good treats i carry with me. I wish i had a fenced in yard so i could work on his off lead obediance.
 
Mordis said:
Hunting4fun, my issue is with my beagle is he learns quickly on leash... but the moment i get him off leash i dont exist, nor does the good treats i carry with me. I wish i had a fenced in yard so i could work on his off lead obediance.
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I think this is almost expected of all hound dogs. Once they get going they follow their nose and nothing can stop them.

As for your concerns about keeping up with a springer, if you have enough time or money to devote to serious training you should have no problems with the dog hunting at your speed. I don't know how much money you have to drop on a dog, but from what I know a true English blood line dog will work a little slower than an American dog. Fcs may be able to confirm or deny this.
 
Now that im considering ecollar usage for my beagle, who here is using them?
Now ill say this, I know that in order to properly use them I need training, and i found a trainer here in my city that specialises in e collar training with dogtra e collars. im currently saving up for the $400 that she wants for training and equipment.

How well does it work for your dogs, and does it make them fear your more then they would normaly? I dont know if i want a fear full dog.
 
used correctly the dog will never the ecollar is correcting him. My dog only associates the collar with fun. When I get the collar out he gets very excited because he knows we are going to do something he really likes. Most of the time I only use the beeper on the collar to let him know he is getting out to far.
 
Are there any books out there that will guide me with training using a ecollar. I cant keep spending $400 everytime i get a new dog that i want to use e collar training.
 
A lot of e collars will come with a DVD and a short instuction booklet on training. The most important thing I think is when you put the collar on the dog go do something the dog really likes before starting any training. I don't know about a beagle, but say a retriever it would be putting the the collar on than throwing some bumpers around the yard for the dog to fetch. Just something fun each time the collar goes on.
 
I would pay some extra money and get at-least a started dog, for a flusher it should be almost trained, but not steady, and probably not hunted on wild birds. The trainers do an amazing job at socializing and obedience, you can hunt right out of the box, and finish him later if wanted.
My ess is highly trained but when he gets on a running bird going vertical he's hard to keep up with, unless I hup him or lean on the collar. I always let him range more out west, allot of the crp in ND is lighter cover and the birds can really run I don't like to hack on him continually. My experienced with ess they soft if you like to yell might want a German dog or lab.
I also have a Setter I wouldn't get one for a first dog unless trained or started they take awhile to mature also super soft. Both of these dogs are good pets very friendly and great with kids.
 
fenway what does it mean to finish a dog? Im still learning and have heard this term before and dont know what it means. I assume it has something to do with training and there actions before and after the shot?
 
Mordis said:
fenway what does it mean to finish a dog? Im still learning and have heard this term before and dont know what it means. I assume it has something to do with training and there actions before and after the shot?
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Usually means a fully trained dog, steady, and has been on wild birds. I'm sure there's more knowledgeable guys here to give there definition.
 
Fenway said:
Usually means a fully trained dog, steady, and has been on wild birds. I'm sure there's more knowledgeable guys here to give there definition.
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That pretty much somes it up :thumbsup:
 
I recently started looking for a hunting dog as well. I would say the best advice I can give (I'm certainly not an expert) for selection is to choose a dog more based on what you need outside of hunting than during hunting. I ended up with a Brittany because they are pointer that is smaller in size and have the personality I am looking for in a house dog. I have to deal with Mojo 7 days a week while I only get to hunt him maybe 2 days a week. You may get a dog and end up not hunting as much as you thought, you may change jobs, etc, so you want a good dog for life as well as hunting. Food for thought.

Good luck - I don't think any dog would be a disappointment if you put in the time.

Chuck
 
Good advice that's why I bought my ESS a few years ago I knew they were good pets as well as good hunters, and when I got the hankering for a pointy dog last year I figured a ES would go well with my springer similar temperaments.
Most coverdog setters aren't real big either which was important to my wife, thats why I didn't get a GSP to big, but the setter I got is fairly big at 55# and his tail does cause some problems.

I had a Brit when I was younger she lived to 17, a good dog.
 
Well, my needs would be a dog that will get along with my beagle. I would love something that will tolerate my kids and my Prissy cat.(she is the queen of the house....) For my utility purposes, i would like something multi purpose. I already have a specialist and i want a all arounder. Im leaning towards ESS, but am still researching other dogs. Lastly i want my dog to work regardless of the cover, my beagle dosent care about the cover or anything like that, and that is a thing i want in my next dog.

I like the looks and tempermants of the various setter breeds but am concerned that they may be specialits. From what i have read they do not retrieve vary well and are not at all usefull for water fowling. Maybe im wrong, maybe i havnt read enough internet postings.

Do the setters retrieve and are they biddable? I have never met one and like i said i dont want any more specialists.

But more importantly i want a friendly dog, that i can play with in the off seasons, and something that is a loveable snuggle bug when i want it to be.
 
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