The newbi thread. Post your newbi huntin dog advice!!

All great suggestions. I went through this process a year/year and a half ago. researched the breeds, hunted behind a few etc.. had similar stipulations like yours - needed to be a great house and family dog along with being a good hunter. We ended up with an ESS over a brit, because I wanted a flusher. A lab and/or golden were just too big for our living situation. I haven't gotten her on ducks, but I know a few folks that use 'em for waterfowling. Depends on where you are, but from my understanding, and my pup's coat, I know they're not cold cold weather duck dogs.

good luck and have fun with the search!
 
a co-worker of mine has a Black Lab with a Corgi (Spelling?) took them awhile but now they are best of buddies. i think any dog you get would be okay.

ESS or Brittany would be a good choice for what i think. my cat didnt like my GSP at first, but after a few times of the cat swinging his paws at the dog, the dog grew to learn quick not to mess with the cat... they occasionally play but they do sleep together. takes awhile but they will adapt and be best of buds. they say Brittany and GSP are family dogs, but with a GSP, if you dont walk them or burn their energy off, they will be hopping and biting things next thing comes to them. Brittany may be more calm and smaller than GSP.

Its up to you, id research before you actually buy. theres sites that will tell you everything about a breed and what to expect in a family, outdoors, indoors and pros and cons about a dog. thats the best advice i could give you. i did have a website someone posted earlier this year. i will post it when i find it. its about each breed and shows video of them as well.
 
I have been doing some research on the hunting dog breeds and have a difficult question to ask this community. Are the current lines of the english cocker spaniel and the English springer spaniel still affected with "rage" syndrome? I heard it its prevalant in english cockers and that it became common in springer spaniels after a dog that won the westminster show and went on to be a top stud dog introduced it into many lines.

This disease is kinda scary and i feel that the APBT may have a simalar situation happening with it.(would explain them suddenly turning on there people)

So whats the Status of the cockers and the springer spaniels, are they still afflicted, Or has it been bred out of them? I know that not all are affected but how common is it right now in the spaniel breed? Anyone have any information or updates concerning this?
 
I have never heard of this and after doing a little research it appears very rare even in show Springers. I did find this statement in Wikipedia:

Although rage syndrome is sometimes called "Springer rage", it is predominantly only the show lines that suffer from this disorder. There have been no reported cases in the pure-bred field lines of this breed.
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I'm sure FCSpringer can also shed some light on this issue. How about it Ken?
 
I had a show bred springer years ago before I knew there was a difference, and it was a different dog from the FT springers I've had, bigger and just more aggressive, he was a good dog but not as calm as my Field Trial springers. My dad had a cross 35 years ago good hunter.

The FT Springers Iv'e had are fairly soft dogs maybe FCspringer will chime in and his 2 cents.
 
My first Springer that I got in 1974 was 1/2 show and 1/2 field. Her father was a champion show dog. She was a great dog. Excellent hunter and extremely laid back. Never any sign of aggression.
 
GOSKERS said:
http://www.essfta.org/health_research/aggression.htm. I see that others have posted address talking about this subject. I know my spring I grew up was one of the best behaved dogs ever.
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great article. Thanks for sharing. I see that it was modified in 2001. I'd be curious to hear if there has been more research into this over the last 9 years.

This was an issue I brought up with several breeders and trainers I spoke with in my search for a pup. I was quickly put at ease, but I did also hear some sad stories of dogs with these types of issues. Overall, this was one of the main reasons I looked into getting a pup direct from a breeder and not adoption. I wanted to know the history of this dog from beginning to end. I think our next dog will be an adoption though. Just seeing and hearing too many good stories out there about great dogs not having a good home. Several on this forum! Anyways, i'm confident an ESS or ECS would be a fine family pet, not to mention hunting machine. I know mine is. ;)
 
I think I need to throw English Cockers into this mix...they're still used in the UK to hunt birds AND rabbits. They'll also work close if you train them to (like any other breed of flusher).
 
I'm new to this forum..... I hunt upland (grouse and pheasants) and waterfowl (ducks and geese).

If you are looking for a dog that can do both, think about an American Water Spaniel. You will have more grooming than with the other breeds that have been mentioned. If you can put up with that, they are great multi-purpose hunters.
 
Here are a couple of links to Upclose Photography.

All of these were taken at HRC Grand Hunt Tests.... My older dog (Justin) passed last spring (only 17% passed) but didn't make it this fall (14% passed). He needs another pass to earn his Grand Hunting Retriever title.

He is a little on the tall side....19". The top of the standard is 18". He weighs about 45 lbs. He turned 9 this past June.....I hope we have two or three more hunting seasons together.

Anyway, he loves the upland work in addition to the retrieving. He has been asked to go pheasant hunting by some dogless hunter friends of mine. They were impressed with his work.

http://upclosenature.com/wpg2?g2_itemId=124857
2010 Spring Grand - the one he passsed. Photos show one water series, one land series and an upland series (lots of pages of photos).

http://upclosenature.com/wpg2?g2_itemId=139283&g2_page=1
2010 Fall Grand

I don't know if these links will work or if you will have to copy and paste them into the address bar.

We are planning to go to North Dakota after Thanksgiving to see if we can find any roosters for him and his younger housemate..... or maybe I should say to see if they can find any roosters for us.

AWSUE
 
Awsue, that is a fine looking dog. I defineatly need to do some research on it. I like the looks of it. How is his temperment? How hard was it to train him?
 
Now I know how funny I look shooting left handed :)

Cool looking dog. How is the breed as a whole at hunting? Have they been ruined for the most part, or is it not too hard to find a good breeder?
 
Most AWS owners do not have their dogs professionally trained. I did. I wanted to run high levels of hunt tests and I am smart enough to know that I am not a good enough trainer to accomplish that without some help.

Justin has a ton of drive and was very dominent. He hasn't lost the drive but his dominance is better under control. Gator, my younger dog, has a lot of drive, no real dominent streak and but can be pretty stubborn. It is just something that we had to work through.

You need to be the pack leader. If AWS sense a void in leadership, they will try to fill that role but.....honestly, they are like teenagers....they want to know what their limits are and they are much happier when clear lines are drawn.

If you want a pheasant dog that will do a good job.....you need to work just a little on the quartering, make sure you can call him off fly-aways and of course break him to the gun and feathers/birds. Both of my dogs have been through a full force program. That may not be necessary for some hunting situations but I want to make sure that they will do what I want them to do even though they may not want to.

If you want a duck/water dog, lots of marks are necessary. Working out of a boat, from a dog stand and from shore require exposing them to all of those experiences. Complete line-steadiness is an absolute necessity. Even though they are "water" spaniels, some take to the water better than others. Running blinds is quite useful but requires a lot more training.

AWS will try to make you believe that they have a better way....and sometimes they do. They still have a LOT of instinct and sometimes that gets in the way of training. They think they know better than we do. It makes them very good natural hunters but sometimes harder to train.

So, if you don't want/need a dog operating at a high level....want a dog that is a natural - operating off their instincts.....don't want to put in a ton of training, you can have a fine hunting AWS. If you want a dog that will run tough blinds, make difficult multiple retrieves, etc. you will need to put in quite a bit of time training. Most trainers have found that it takes AWS longer to get to the high levels than say a Lab but they can do it.

I always caution people about the coat. It is both the good news and the bad news. The coat of an AWS should be thick with a dense undercoat - curly to wavy. It is somewhat oily. Those things make the dog better able to tolerate cold water than a springer..... However, their coat means that you will have to groom them more. Their coat is like a burr magnet. It will mat if not combed on a regular basis. You can trim them but you want it long enough to protect them from briars, etc and keep them warm in the water. The coat means that they do not tolerate warmer temps. as well as some other breeds.

If I can answer any other questions or if you need a clarification, please let me know. I have had this breed for thirty years....love them but they are not the dog for everybody.

AWSUE
 
I can put you on to some good dogs. There is no Show-Field split in AWS. My dogs have breed championships and high level hunt test titles.....and hunt every fall.

About the shooting left-handed.....Justin's trainer switches hands because in HRC tests you shoot at every mark - if you shoot left handed at the marks to the right, it makes it easier for the dogs to follow the gun and makes it easier for the handler to keep an eye on the dog. Not all handlers switch hands. I have taken to doing it but it requires more coordination that I can muster some days. :)
 
whatever dog u choose I will give u one tip, you must be the BOSS in the dogs mind, u say something he must obey forthright, this can be taught without hurting the dog but it must be done, a great example: your dog is running/chasing toward a road with traffic, u must be able to stop that dog and he must obey, it could save his life, this is just one example, u can still spoil them once this is taught!
 
Mordis said:
Well, I figured that since im new to the hunting thing and would like to get a upland dog in the next year or so, that i would post this thread that any future newbs like me could search for and use for guideance on dog selection.

So here is my questions.

1. Which style is better for a begginer to bird hunting, flusher or pointer? My only hunting dog, a beagle, they are not known for being very bidable and do not work closely to the handler(at least my dosent).

2. Compared to beagles, how trainable are the hunting breeds? Good lord my rescue beagle is proving to be very difficult. Prolly gonna have to resort to e-collar training.

3. Which ones are multi use. I would like to do some water fowl/geese and would like something that can be used as a retriever for those situations.(of course nothing beats the chessie for artic cold waters, but for all the other situations lol) I would also like something that could also do a decent job of rabbit hunting. From what i have read the eureopean versitiles all would point flush retrieve both fur and feathers. I know i have a beagle for hunting bunnies, but would like something different when the mood strikes me.

4. Why is the GSP so popular and not the GWP and GLP? I would imagine that the GWP and the GLP would have a easier time with cold weather/water due to there longer hair. Do all the german pointer breeds train and act the same or is there some significant difference between them tempermentaly?

5. What about the flushers, the one that i know of is the ESS. I live a bout an hour from Boberosa kennels and if i purchased a ESS would be from them. I know that there close working flushers(from the videos i have seen) that require you to watch the dog closely to get the cues that it is on the trail and is about to flush. You have to pay extra attention(from what i gather anyways from the videos) if you wanna get a shot at a decent range.

6. How biddable are the ESS? Tempermentaly speaking are they good with kids and other dogs? Same question goes for the German pointers breeds.

7. Should i train them my self or pay someone to train them? Im having a heck of a time with the beagle, and dont have much confidence in my training abilities.

Thats all the questions i can think of at this time. I intend to wait a minimum of 1 year maybe a little longer before i start looking for a second hunting dog and am just looking for some advice and information ahead of time so i can make a better informed descion and help guide me in my research ahead of time. I Look forward to your answeres and your other advice on hunting dogs. Thanks again for taking the time to read this and sorry for the wall of text.
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I have beagles, GSPs and English Pointers. I dont want my beagle tracking birds and I dont want my pointers pointing rabbits. With that said Pointers sound like the best fit if hunting up land. We at times take 4 pointers and 3 beagles when we hunt. We hit the areas with the pointers first then go back with the beagles and get a mix bag and some great dog work. Ecollars for me are a must even if we dont use them much,but the dogs will have them around the neck just in case. Welcome to the site and sport. :thumbsup::cheers:
 
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