Wow! Isn't it nice when the hunting exceeds your expectations? I hope you guys continue to get into them at Grizzly!
Who's buying a Class A season pass?
- Thread starter calamari
- Start date
Wow! Isn't it nice when the hunting exceeds your expectations? I hope you guys continue to get into them at Grizzly!
I had no idea that they didn't manage it, nor that the stuff on the south end was special hunt property.
What happened to the seed stock? If nothing has changed, it seems really strange that everything would just die off.
Maybe some of the $350k in grant money could be used to get seed stock out there? Or would it all just wash away in future floods?
One thing for sure - the terrain definitely looks scoured out there. I imagine the flood diversion hydraulics are pretty powerful when the water is pouring through the weir.
I guess it was just a shot in time and worth the memories. I really did enjoy hunts like that in the 1990's.
Good point on the survivors. The planters I have run into have been caught my Labs in the grass and tules without my firing a shot. Not that the dog didn't have to work to find the bird; I guess I really am an elitist snob. If the day comes that there are no wild birds than you might find me hunting after planters. I certainly don't judge anyone on any of this stuff. It is all just what floats your boat.
I can see how the burrs could get under your saddle. As much as I curse having to chase after the Labs as they pursue running birds, I do enjoy the required pauses to relax while owners of long haired dog use profanity and clippers after we pass through a field of cockle burrs. You just sweep off the several burrs that stick to the Lab with your hand and move on to the next field.
I do love eastern Montana and southwestern North Dakota for that easy prairie grass hunting. Easy compared to California at least. I'll never forget the North Dakota natives complaining about hunting in the reservoir bottom south of Bismarck during the drought - they said the cover was too thick. I chuckled to myself as we waded through some thickets and heavy grass while we flushed hundreds of pheasants - it was cake walk compared to California star thistle and cockleburrs.
That's the way it was with those special hunts but all of it to the beginning of the rice to the south is open now.
The same thing that happened to pheasants in general throughout the state. There really isn't much nesting cover and water on that property so the general decline hit them hard I'd guess.
I'll make a prediction and say that none of that Upland money will go for anything but special pheasant hunts if that. It requires a non-profit to do it with a $10,000 min. They will not do anything with the money to benefit the general pheasant population unless it comes as a collateral benefit from native upland game enhancement.
When the water goes over that weir in a high water year it's awe inspiring. That's why they have those big scour pockets out in the middle.
We all did. Those were Calif.'s golden years as far as pheasants.
Holy crap! Were there huge standing waves in those holes during high flows?
I've only seen high water at the Colusa By-Pass and Tisdale Weir but given the size of the scours at Fremont compared to the ones at Colusa which had the deepest of the two I'm familiar with, Fremont's are bigger. There weren't big standing waves but the soil in those By-Passes is very erodible.
I've been at Colusa when the water was almost at the base of the bridge and full grown Cottonwood snags would try to go under it. I expected the bridge to go out from the impact and water pressure pushing against the bridge behind the tree but it survived.
Driving out to Colusa on flooding roads we'd see fish swimming over the road and throwing rooster tails. I saw a small herd of about 10 deer drown in that By-Pass after getting caught in the current and all the pheasants sitting in the hearts of the willow trees to avoid having a hawk strike them. Snakes in the trees and every rat, possum, skunk, fox and coyote sitting on the levees too. Flooding of those By-Passes is hard on wildlife.
quail hound
Moderator
If you guys have Facebook check out Sacramento NWR's page to see the project NWTF is doing up there. A quote, "Soon this will be incredible Turkey brooding habitat". We pheasant hunters are dropping the ball.
Another example of pheasants being worse than second class citizens. Turkeys haven't existed in Calif. for a thousand years but with the introduction of sub species that were never here, they are treated as though they never left. Pheasants never existed here so they are just one Fish and Game Commission meeting away from being treated like Collared Doves. Actually, if there was a native species that they competed with that's exactly how they would be treated.
quail hound
Moderator
Maybe, or maybe an example of the impact a non profit organization can have if the will is there.
Good Turkey brood habitat should be good pheasant brood cover too.
Good Turkey brood habitat should be good pheasant brood cover too.
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So get your Pheasants Forever chapter on the case. They don't have to be in the area where any project takes place. I've posted the info for making a proposal for next year. Go get'em!
It's the competition between turkeys and pheasants. Yes, both birds use it but turkeys will run any pheasants off.
That is really strange, given how outspoken the USFWS has been about non-native species such as pheasants.
Has anyone seen a formalized study on turkeys displacing pheasants? I have heard anecdotes about that at Gray Lodge, and one can see first hand the change in harvest numbers over the years for the two species at Gray Lodge. But I have never seen a formal study that discusses whether it is just turkeys taking advantage of the pheasant vacuum or if the turkeys actually are more aggressive and drive the pheasants out.
I have never tried shooting a turkey on the wing. I suppose I could try pheasant hunting at Gray Lodge while turkeys in are season and raise the odds of trying that method. I would presume you still have to pretty much put their head in the pattern, wingshot or not.
Oops - sorry about the last post. You answered my question in a previous post Calamari. How do people know that the turkeys specifically run the pheasants off? Is it observed behavior or do we just infer it from the decline of pheasants and the rise of Turkeys?
Sounds like grim times during high flood water. Always amazing to see rivers and creeks near bank full after large rain storms in California. As much as I hate to see the damage wrought by giant rain storms, I am hoping we get some of those happening this winter...soon. I think much of California is running below average for November rainfall.
quail hound
Moderator
I've been trying to get a chapter going around here for a while now. Between my brother, NewmanCA, and myself I know of three pheasant hunters in the tri county area (Fresno/ Madera/ Merced). I do have a friend who is getting a chapter off the ground in Modesto that I will be involved in as much as I can in the mean time.
As for the turkey vs pheasant situation, they're both there so more quality habitat can only help ease the competition I would think but we've established that I'm no biologist.
As for the turkey vs pheasant situation, they're both there so more quality habitat can only help ease the competition I would think but we've established that I'm no biologist.
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quail hound
Moderator
My brother and I have both taken a turkey on the wing at GL, my brother a hen and me a decent tom. They aren't very tough from my experience, both were stone dead from 1oz of 6s (this was a few years ago). We've also had our dogs catch turkies out there that had been wingshot by another hunter so a good shot is important.:cheers:
Another fun thing to put on the bucket list. Go pheasant hunting at Gray Lodge and kill a flying turkey instead!
When I have gone wood duck hunting up north on different properties, we inevitably kick up turkeys in the woods or in the rice. Scares the living daylights out of me when a full size turkey flies up front of me. If they are in season, I'll take a poke at one if they give me a chance.
I think there could be isolated incidents of that happening in some areas but statewide when looking those things causing negative impacts on pheasants, it would be far down on this list. Avian predators are a significantly greater threat. Even skunks that will eat pheasant eggs are an issue. It also always comes around to having sufficient habitat for the pheasants
People get fixated on nest depredation and egg eating but it's competition for nesting sites that is the issue. Expand habitat that both can use and turkeys will occupy the habitat.
I used to help with late summer pheasant counts on Gray Lodge and Little dry Creek where we'd use flushing dogs and count adults, immature, and chicks that could barely fly at that time. We'd go to the best cover where ever it was including the closed zone at Little Dry Creek. We'd jump both pheasants and a few turkeys but what we'd find in the nesting cover was turkey nests and very few pheasant nests.
There used to be a small but enduring population of pheasants on a Class C area on a river that didn't have turkeys on it. We'd hear lots of roosters crowing in the spring while striper fishing. When turkeys arrived I started to hunt them there and within about 4 years all the pheasants were gone and a strong population of turkeys existed there. Anecdotal I know but still it's a data point.
Ed Smith and Chet Harte worked up the brood strip program for increasing pheasant numbers. As part of their research they contacted biologists and habitat managers in other states with pheasants and turkeys. The result of their consultations were that pheasants were where no turkeys lived, a strong population of turkeys and trees and few pheasants at best. Trees were a key feature for turkeys who need them to roost. You can have pheasants with trees but once turkeys get established pheasant populations are put under pressure for nesting sites. Nests! Chick survival! All the rest is available now.
I don't sense that turkeys are that common in the Grasslands or middle of the San Joaquin Valley are they? There aren't the riparian corridors that exist north of Sacramento allowing them to move from the foothills out into the valley. I've busted up flocks of 20+ turkeys on Gray Lodge for example.
There is a statewide decline for sure but on the public areas in the Sacramento Valley there is actually enough good habitat for pheasants to have a larger population than currently exists. There is virtually nothing on Gray Lodge or Upper Butte Basin except for birds that are planted or planters that wander onto the areas.
The class C area I described has no agricultural or mosquito abatement activity on it, is miles long and 1/4 mile wide, has great cover and water year around, located in the heart of pheasant country with a historic population of pheasants and the only thing that has changed is that turkeys have established themselves there. No pheasants.
All raptors are not bird eaters and even the ones that are struggle with full grown pheasant sized birds. I once saw a Northern Harrier glide in from a roosters blind side and try to turn himself inside out getting away from the pheasant when it turned around and confronted the raptor. They eat them but you don't see much evidence in the field.
Turkeys aren't the only reason but they are a significant part of the puzzle.
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