Who's buying a Class A season pass?

calamari said:
I don't sense that turkeys are that common in the Grasslands or middle of the San Joaquin Valley are they? There aren't the riparian corridors that exist north of Sacramento allowing them to move from the foothills out into the valley. I've busted up flocks of 20+ turkeys on Gray Lodge for example.
There is a statewide decline for sure but on the public areas in the Sacramento Valley there is actually enough good habitat for pheasants to have a larger population than currently exists. There is virtually nothing on Gray Lodge or Upper Butte Basin except for birds that are planted or planters that wander onto the areas.
The class C area I described has no agricultural or mosquito abatement activity on it, is miles long and 1/4 mile wide, has great cover and water year around, located in the heart of pheasant country with a historic population of pheasants and the only thing that has changed is that turkeys have established themselves there. No pheasants.
All raptors are not bird eaters and even the ones that are struggle with full grown pheasant sized birds. I once saw a Northern Harrier glide in from a roosters blind side and try to turn himself inside out getting away from the pheasant when it turned around and confronted the raptor. They eat them but you don't see much evidence in the field.
Turkeys aren't the only reason but they are a significant part of the puzzle.
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That is an interesting observation about how the turkeys expand their distribution. There is plenty of riparian habitat with trees in the San Joaquin corridor, but it is a no man's land of barren farm fields to either side. So if your argument is correct, they can't get to the trees along the rivers and sloughs of that drainage unless someone plants them.

I have watched the turkey population explode here in the Santa Cruz Mountains, along with the wild boar population over the last 40 years. Life is good for non-natives that don't really have many predators, but plenty of food, water and cover.

If I understand you correctly, then my idea of checking out the patchwork quilt of Sacramento NWR areas along the river will likely result in seeing only turkeys and rabbits, and I am unlikely to see any pheasants, since the walk-in areas are predominantly riparian vegetation of trees and vines.

I see the opposite problem in North Dakota, probably because of the lack of trees and the nasty winters there. The turkeys are struggling there compared to the pheasants, probably because it is mostly grassland and farmland with very few trees. Plus the pheasants are tough bastards and also hunker down in the tules when the days get cold and snowy.
 
calamari said:
I don't sense that turkeys are that common in the Grasslands or middle of the San Joaquin Valley are they? There aren't the riparian corridors that exist north of Sacramento allowing them to move from the foothills out into the valley. I've busted up flocks of 20+ turkeys on Gray Lodge for example.
There is a statewide decline for sure but on the public areas in the Sacramento Valley there is actually enough good habitat for pheasants to have a larger population than currently exists. There is virtually nothing on Gray Lodge or Upper Butte Basin except for birds that are planted or planters that wander onto the areas.
The class C area I described has no agricultural or mosquito abatement activity on it, is miles long and 1/4 mile wide, has great cover and water year around, located in the heart of pheasant country with a historic population of pheasants and the only thing that has changed is that turkeys have established themselves there. No pheasants.
All raptors are not bird eaters and even the ones that are struggle with full grown pheasant sized birds. I once saw a Northern Harrier glide in from a roosters blind side and try to turn himself inside out getting away from the pheasant when it turned around and confronted the raptor. They eat them but you don't see much evidence in the field.
Turkeys aren't the only reason but they are a significant part of the puzzle.
Click to expand...

I've hunted pheasants in the Central Valley all my life from Stockton down the Fresno. And as I live in the valley traveled the floor extensively. I have yet to see a turkey anywhere on the valley floor in between. We do have them in the hills west of Hwy 5 in the County park but that is in the higher elevations and is not pheasant habitat.
 
enzinn said:
That is an interesting observation about how the turkeys expand their distribution. There is plenty of riparian habitat with trees in the San Joaquin corridor, but it is a no man's land of barren farm fields to either side. So if your argument is correct, they can't get to the trees along the rivers and sloughs of that drainage unless someone plants them.
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It's not the north south corridors that gets them out into the valley. It's the creeks and rivers that come from the eastern foothills that have gotten them throughout the north valley.

enzinn said:
I understand you correctly, then my idea of checking out the patchwork quilt of Sacramento NWR areas along the river will likely result in seeing only turkeys and rabbits, and I am unlikely to see any pheasants, since the walk-in areas are predominantly riparian vegetation of trees and vines.
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I don't want to discourage you too much but actually there are very few walk in Class C areas in the Sacramento River NWR. It's mostly boat in stuff with poor ramp locations and the need for either a jet boat or a prop boat run by someone very familiar with the section travelled.
Once you get to the areas it's like you describe being very thick ground level vegetation and impassable wild vines. There is a great story of a steamboat going from Sacramento to Colusa in the 1800s that ran aground near Meridian. It took the crew 2 months to go the 20+/- miles to get there on foot and they almost starved.
But I digress. You will see sign of both turkeys, quail and maybe some pheasant but actually shooting one will be a challenge. I'd recommend doing it if for no other reason than seeing what the Sacramento River used to look like in the 1800s. A friend and I floated the river decades ago from Woodson's Bridge to Colusa. Over 100 river miles that took us 3 days to do it. We both agreed it was one of the most enjoyable adventures either of us have had./QUOTE]

NewmanCa, I'd say that there is the potential to have turkeys along the San Joaquin as far south as the Merced River but after that it's tough for them to get out into the valley floor. They are thick from Sacramento upstream. Once they do get to the north south riparian corridor however they will spread to the south. It isn't fast but it seems to be inexorable. They tolerate a dry environment much better than pheasants it seems.
 
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I don't think turkeys will make it to the SJR, even though there is a strong population at Millerton the Friant dam is a barrier that will be hard to get past and any corridors north and south of Friant have been dry for so long they are devoid of cove, the lowest foothills are barren also looking more like high desert than Sierra Nevada foothills. There is one possible corridor I can think of but it's a long way! Someday maybe but the north valley corridors are much more friendly.

Edit: I just remembered I already know of a turkey population slowing expanding down the Chowchilla river. They may make it out to the Eastside bypass and that's a short jump to the SJR and not to far down to Merced NWR from there.

Enzinn, I've been tempted to try some of those areas myself.:cheers::cheers:



 
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quail hound said:
I don't think turkeys will make it to the SJR,
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They're in the Delta now. It may take time but there's nothing to stop them from going south through the Delta and into the San Joaquin. I'd bet they are down the Cosumnes, Mokelumne and Merced Rivers and are already into that corridor.
You've got a good boat for the river. It will feel a little small if it floods but it's plenty big enough. I've used a 10' pram and an 8 hp. for years on all of them.

Here's the poop:

http://www.fws.gov/uploadedFiles/Re...er/SacRiverNWR General Hunting Access Map.pdf
 
I've seen them on the Cosumnes off of 5 and 99, they're pioneers that's for sure.

My boat is a gas hog! Gonna have to bring along an extra tank if I try it.
 
You'll have to excuse me, when I think of the SJR I rarely think of the Delta. I think of a small sliver of a warm water fisherie spanning from Friant to Gravelly Ford and occasionally to Mendota pool and Sack Dam. I think about something we read in a book about water flowing all the way from Tulare Lake through the Fresno Slough and maybe a story grandpa told me about pitch forking salmon. "A River Betrayed" some might say.
 
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RJ have you considered taking your boat to the Hilmar Wildlife area. It's boat in only, not too far from you (and a pheasant club) and might have ditch chickens on it.
 
Calisdad said:
RJ have you considered taking your boat to the Hilmar Wildlife area. It's boat in only, not too far from you (and a pheasant club) and might have ditch chickens on it.
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I have. Newman asked the area manager about it for me and was told it looks more like grazed pasture than anything, devoid of any real cover.
 
quail hound said:
I have. Newman asked the area manager about it for me and was told it looks more like grazed pasture than anything, devoid of any real cover.
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Maybe but it's on the river. When you hunt the wildlife areas where do you find most of you birds? Google Earth is your friend (pics taken in 2015).

OR- I could borrow your boat and check it out for you. :D Lol
 
Calisdad said:
Maybe but it's on the river. When you hunt the wildlife areas where do you find most of you birds? Google Earth is your friend (pics taken in 2015).

OR- I could borrow your boat and check it out for you. :D Lol
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In our area which includes Hilmar, the land along the river is fairly well developed in farming. Very few pheasants, if any, away from the refuges. Never got anything out of Google Earth for checking refuges. Unless you can access street view, can't tell from above what the cover looks like. I've tried it before.
 
enzinn said:
That is an interesting observation about how the turkeys expand their distribution. There is plenty of riparian habitat with trees in the San Joaquin corridor, but it is a no man's land of barren farm fields to either side. So if your argument is correct, they can't get to the trees along the rivers and sloughs of that drainage unless someone plants them.

I have watched the turkey population explode here in the Santa Cruz Mountains, along with the wild boar population over the last 40 years. Life is good for non-natives that don't really have many predators, but plenty of food, water and cover.

If I understand you correctly, then my idea of checking out the patchwork quilt of Sacramento NWR areas along the river will likely result in seeing only turkeys and rabbits, and I am unlikely to see any pheasants, since the walk-in areas are predominantly riparian vegetation of trees and vines.

I see the opposite problem in North Dakota, probably because of the lack of trees and the nasty winters there. The turkeys are struggling there compared to the pheasants, probably because it is mostly grassland and farmland with very few trees. Plus the pheasants are tough bastards and also hunker down in the tules when the days get cold and snowy.
Click to expand...

In our area along a long stretch of the SJ River, land if farmed up to the banks of the river in many if not most places. I have a couple of friends with land bordering the SJ River. About all they see as far as game birds goes is doves. The Feds are working on a plan to purchase land all along the SJ River to restore the land along the river to its natural state that existed before the river was drained. It is tied to the SJ River restoration project. If that ever happens that would provide good habitat for birds
 
NewmanCA said:
In our area which includes Hilmar, the land along the river is fairly well developed in farming. Very few pheasants, if any, away from the refuges. Never got anything out of Google Earth for checking refuges. Unless you can access street view, can't tell from above what the cover looks like. I've tried it before.
Click to expand...

Photo interpretation is as much an art as a science. I've had classes in the subject in college and seem to have a "feel" for it. Other's who have looked at aerial photos that seem obvious to me see nothing but mottling. I sold aerial photos of the northern refuges by advertising at the refuge check station back before there was an internet but sold few copies for the reason stated that most can't interpret what is shown.
For example a friend from Nevada came over and had a hunger to shoot Wilson's Snipe at a refuge. By looking at the aerials I had at the time I found moist areas away from the parking lots and along with them Snipe. I'd never been to the parts of the hunting area before that I took him to so it does work.
My best advice is to look at various spots you're familiar with on Google Earth, both good and bad cover. Since you know what the cover is like and what is good and bad then try to find the same patterns and appearance on the areas you're interested in. Google Earth has the ability to move the sun around creating shadows that is also helpful for determining cover height and density.
 
Happy thanksgiving guys! I wanted to go out quail hunting for a bit this morning but instead got called into work at 3:00 am to sand icy roads.:( I have a few doves left that I may prep for some appetizers for the family.:thumbsup:
 
I got two roosters this morning and missed an easy shot that should've finished me off and we also lost a bird that my dad shot. The truck said it was -3 this morning when we started but it felt like at least 0 to me.:D

Thick cover, we flushed a hundred or so out of this field.




 
quail hound said:
I got two roosters this morning and missed an easy shot that should've finished me off and we also lost a bird that my dad shot. The truck said it was -3 this morning when we started but it felt like at least 0 to me.:D

Thick cover, we flushed a hundred or so out of this field.
Click to expand...

Where was this picture taken?
 
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