Where have the quail gone?

I have lived in SW Mo close to the line SE Kansas all my life 47yrs. We have 700 acres of farm some in Missouri and some in Kansas. I hunted Quail on the same 140acres for 20 years and always a 100 birds left at the end of season. 7 -10 years ago the birds went on a fast decline. Trying to figure or understand what was happening was tough. I finally would work the dogs but no shooting as just was not many left. Here is what I have seen. We actually planted more cover sold all our cattle and let the pastures grow up in the best cover we have ever had. The Farm looks perfect but no birds anymore. The things that have changed are the spring insecticide spraying of the spring wheat crops, no longer has Milo been planted and grown here in years. The Quail would feed on Milo in the hard winters. Men that used to hunt fur are gone as fur prices has not much value at all. So I now see many bobcat , coon, coyote, fox constantly. Our farm has more cover than ever but for sure is lacking something else :( . Its so sad to see what has happened. Me and my wife sit on the porch in the spring hoping just to hear a Bobwhite whistle . I have a great hunting passion but a great passion for the wildlife as well. We have done everything we can here on our farm except for planting Milo. Its the same for miles and miles around no more birds to speak of just hoping. Makes training a young dog very hard so we go to Running Rooster Resort in Columbus Kansas for Birds. When I was very young we use to look for a deer track now they are thick as flies and now we listen for Quail. We own one of the oldest natural prairies left in SW Missouri and used to whatch and listen to the Prairie chickens boom in the spring but they are gone also. So sad. By the way thanks westksbowhunter for the info. Dave
 
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I have seen the same thing as Dave. My family has farmed here in east central Kansas for 50 years. We have the best cover we have ever had. Some of our farms haven't changed a bit in 50 years but yet the quail numbers have went down the last 20. I will say it again, its not a coincidence that quail numbers started declining at the same time fur prices started going down. I shot 3 bobcats just hunting deer. The first 25 years of my life I didn't even see 3 bobcats. Predators are what is taking the quail numbers down in this area.
 
I agree with the predators. But there has to be several other factors. I don't think double croping was as popular back in the 50' and 60's as it is today. Farmers harvest on monday then plant somethinng else on tuesday. Has to be a big factor. Out west that is not the case. I think that is why you see more quail in the western part of the state than you do in the eastern part now. I would also say that the last good years for quail hunting in cherokee county was 1988-1989. Since then it has been absolutely terrible.
 
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So many things are for sure a negative, and truly we did not see much double cropping at all in my early life. There were always beans or a little Milo left in most fields, not anymore the combine gets it all.Double cropping also means double herbicides and a lot of pesticides these days. Went walking this morning and saw 18 hawks in the first mile section. Brought back to me last week at a preserve hunting quail the hawks was after the birds as fast as we could hunt them. Bobwhites will probably have a tough time ever making it back in this area. We can only hope and pray. Good luck with everyones hunting. Dave
 
You guys are deprssing me! I grew up with the family farm in Greenbush, hunted based in Frontenac, hit the area from Arcadia- Liberal,Mo.- Mindenmines, Mo.- on back to Frontenac,when not going west to Girard, Greenbush, Hepler, Walnut. Everybodyhad a kennel of pointers or setters, quail hunting was indescribable. Our farm despite roothogging, cutting timber, opening the canopy, has a fraction of the birds we once had. We are overun with deer, turkey, and predators. Lots more beans than milo, there is evidence that beans are bad for quail, our creek which used to run clear and deep is now silted in to a memory of what it once was. I don't remember a shortage of hawks and owls, but there seem to be more now. Fertilizer, pesticides,herbicides, undoubtedly 3 times the application of the mid 60's. My farm has had wide 100 yard buffers of prairie grass as long as I can remember. Timber is grazed,burned, lots of blackberry. When I was a kid, a short walk around the 120@ home place would move a minimum of 6 coveys, sometimes 10 depending on what we missed. Now I push a herd of deer back and forth, see maybe 2 small coveys,but more often 1. KDWP blames habitat, but I have habitat, sounds like you do too! They blame the floods of 3-4 years ago. Wet cold springs, which I can buy to a degree, but we had all that in the 50's-60's-and 70's. I hunted quail for 12 years before I ever hunted or shot a pheasant. Hate to say so on a pheasant forum, but I'd give up every rooster anywhere,to have the quail numbers we had in my youth, and never look back or have a regret. I think quail are the ecosystem's coal mine canary, disappearance an early warning signal of dire things to come.
 
We just waited to long to realize what was happening. Many on here talk like its something that has taken place in the last 5-10 years. Quail have been gone for over 20 years now. I guess alot of us are or were blind. Has nothing to do with floods in the last 10 years. In the last 10 years there have been no quail to flood out.
 
I also feel that quail were not high on the priority list as far as the KDWPT is concerned. Quail hunting does not equal dollars to the state. Turkey, deer and pheasants do. KDWP just wanted to capitalize on out of state deer permit sales back in the early 90's. Quail hunting got pushed to the side along with a giant decrease in the hunters pursuing them. Everything equaled disaster for the quail.
 
The habitat on our farm is better now than it was 20 years ago. We still have the same crop rotation we did then. We have 800 acres of upland bird buffers and filter strips which we didn't have then. Our quail numbers are up this year, I can go out and find 6 or so coveys in one morning, but they still aren't what they were. The floods and wet springs have had a negative impact on the birds, that is why they are up this year is because we had a normal spring. The bird numbers started to decline when fur prices tanked and the predator population exploded. That is what is depressing quail numbers on our farm anyway and of this I have no doubt.
 
fsentkilr said:
The habitat on our farm is better now than it was 20 years ago. We still have the same crop rotation we did then. We have 800 acres of upland bird buffers and filter strips which we didn't have then. Our quail numbers are up this year, I can go out and find 6 or so coveys in one morning, but they still aren't what they were. The floods and wet springs have had a negative impact on the birds, that is why they are up this year is because we had a normal spring. The bird numbers started to decline when fur prices tanked and the predator population exploded. That is what is depressing quail numbers on our farm anyway and of this I have no doubt.
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And yet on 800 acres to find 6 coveys of birds..... that is a number that for most of my life we would have considered poor. You are doing everything right, by current accepted knowledge, even if we use the accepted perameters that we find about half the birds available, thats 12 coveys on 800 acres. that's sensational by todays standards but a long way from a covey per 40@ or even a covey per 20@ both of which were common 40 years ago. Years ago, managing for quail we used to talk in terms of 1 or 2 birds per acre, now the MDC, KDWP, talks in terms of 1/2 bird per acre, and has yet to achieve that! Even on specific management areas. Question which nags at me is, what are we missing? After all the research, lecturing, fund raising, obviously we still don't know why. if we don't know why, how can we fix it? I keep burning and cutting, planting, brooding and hovering over the birds who continue to struggle. I'm going to ramp up the predator control. Maybe become a coonhound fancier.
 
We own 7000 acres we have 800 acres of crp that is filter strips and upland buffers. My guess is we probably average a covey per quarter now, and 20 years ago we probably averaged 4 coveys per quarter section. My son and I just walked some draws hunting deer and saw several coveys of birds. We are getting the dogs a going to go shoot some. I am going to do a lot of predator hunting this winter, and may even do some trapping for the first time in 20 years. I am going to try and thin the varmints out as much as I can.
 
fsentkilr said:
We own 7000 acres we have 800 acres of crp that is filter strips and upland buffers. My guess is we probably average a covey per quarter now, and 20 years ago we probably averaged 4 coveys per quarter section. My son and I just walked some draws hunting deer and saw several coveys of birds. We are getting the dogs a going to go shoot some. I am going to do a lot of predator hunting this winter, and may even do some trapping for the first time in 20 years. I am going to try and thin the varmints out as much as I can.
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You have enough ground to really put it to the test, I'm treating isolated and fragmented habitat, I have long believed quail in particular have to be managed on a much larger scope of ground to be really effective. Keep us posted on your project. I hope it goes well, and you recruit the neighbors!
 
TOO SOON OLD, TOO LATE SMART

That really applies to me and the Byrd Ranch. Twenty plus years ago after my father was finally persuaded to put some acreage into CRP, I with the help of several biologists had a wonderful master plan for the ranch, but unfortunately Father didn't go ahead with it. I had a large forb seed donation arranged with Fish and Game and a lot of shrub plantings through out. Instead it was the typical grass mix with no forbs and no shrub plantings. Now all these years later instead of a great habitat it is only decent. There have been some improvements to the CRP over the years and some forbs and legumes introduced, but it is nothing to what it could have been.

Next year is a milestone year for the ranch. The current CRP expires in September and who knows what will be offered? I hope that there is the opportunity to keep most of the acreage in the program and room for quite a bit of modification to improve the quail habitat. Unfortunately, I have become a somewhat limiting factor. My vigor has been replaced with what I consider a much too early worn out body. I hope that some surgeries can bring the body along to where I can again walk the fields behind my dog, but my real hope is that I can provide for a great hunting experience for my grandchildren in ten to twenty years and that they will enjoy it.

All the best to those of you working on quail habitat. I encourage you to learn all you can and do all you can to preserve the great quail hunting tradition.
 
I have never heard about beans being bad for quail except for on here. If that is the case why does the state allow the crop fields on public ground to be planted in beans?
 
labsnslabs said:
I have never heard about beans being bad for quail except for on here. If that is the case why does the state allow the crop fields on public ground to be planted in beans?
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First of all I don't know if it's appropriate to let a guy with the monicker of labsanlabs, join a conversation on quail! Just kidding:cheers: I had a show lab that was nuts for quail. The soybean question is based on research done by Auburn University, and others, questioning the effect of Thrypsan, (sic) inhibitors which are present in beans, the question is whether beans prohibit the digestion and absorbance of nutrition in quail, thereby causing them to feed on beans, but gain little food value from them. This isnot new, all domestic livestock gain little from soybeans unless extruded or roasted to break the Thrypsan bonds. Nobody roasts the quail's beans. As far asthe wildlife agencies and bean planting, they are managing for diversity, deer eat bean foliage for one thing, also it's what the tennnant wants to grow, and they get paid a rent or percentage of a valuable crop, minimal interest in quail in general, denial of the issue, or simply uninformed. It's becoming obvious that what we don't know about quail far exceeds what we do know. No one is saying that planting beans kills quail, what research indicates is that quail will take advantage of bean residue, because it's available, and easier to pick, rather than scrounge weed seeds, or travel and expose themselves to danger, seeking higher value nutrition. The beans are readily available, but inferior to other plants nutritionally, when it comes to quail. So beans act as sort of a trip or trap crop. It's like the Canada Geese at the park who readily eat bread scraps from the unknowing public, instead of grazing the local neighborhood, and flying out to glean cornfields. At least that's the theory.
 
I don't buy the soybeans deal. We raise lots of beans and always have. I found 3 coveys of quail yesterday in 1/2 mile and they were all feeding on soybeans. I have shot quail and pheasants my whole life that had their craws full of beans. Ducks and geese will also feed on soybean fields when corn is available right across the road. We leave some strips of soybeans unharvested and the deer will flock to this strips and eat soybeans when corn stubble is available across the fence. Soybeans provide an ideal canopy when they are growing for quail to raise their young. Our farm is half soybeans and half corn, and while the quail aren't there like 20 years ago, we have more quail than the neighbors and we always have.
 
I am not a biologist, so I will not begin to address the soybean issues with quail and don't have any links handy to put one in touch with that research. I was first made aware of potential issues by my Flint Hills rancher buddy that saw an article in the Sunday Wichita Eagle many years ago(mid 90's as I recall). My buddy, who was searching for answers on his declining quail numbers over the years saw the article and could see how his quail numbers had begun a decline as milo was being replaced as primary crop by soybeans in his area.

Soybeans had became a favorite crop for me and I had done well with them, but after hearing of potential issues with them and quail I have not raised any(I believe my last soybean crop was in 1995). This year, it looked like I might raise a few to clean some weed problems, but then the drought hit and I didn't go through with it.

As I recall there are two issues, one a component of the bean itself and one a typical fungi that is on the plants at a certain stage.

When I can I will see if I can come up with information.
 
fsentkilr said:
I don't buy the soybeans deal. We raise lots of beans and always have. I found 3 coveys of quail yesterday in 1/2 mile and they were all feeding on soybeans. I have shot quail and pheasants my whole life that had their craws full of beans. Ducks and geese will also feed on soybean fields when corn is available right across the road. We leave some strips of soybeans unharvested and the deer will flock to this strips and eat soybeans when corn stubble is available across the fence. Soybeans provide an ideal canopy when they are growing for quail to raise their young. Our farm is half soybeans and half corn, and while the quail aren't there like 20 years ago, we have more quail than the neighbors and we always have.
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I've found more quail in beans than in any other crop. Most of the quail I've cleaned have been full of beans, but that doesn't mean anything when considering what it does for their health I suppose. I mean, if you were to shoot me and clean me, you'd find bacon cheeseburgers in my craw more often than anything else and I've been told they're not good for me:rolleyes:
 
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