That last sentence is very true and really rubs me the wrong way. They're selling animals, birds, fish, etc that they technically don't own and I'm sure a lot of those hunt payments don't find their way on any books either. I'd like to see that regulated harshly but that's yet another obvious problem the state will never address.Bud you are crazy! $10,784,610 for just the NR deer tags through the draw. Another $2,851,524 for the hunting license to go with the deer tag. Roughly 60,000 NR hunting licenses sold each year. Take out the 24,000 licenses sold to deer hunters that leaves 36,000 licenses to share between upland, waterfowl, rabbit, dove, ect. for $4,212,000. No comparison between upland hunter revenue and deer hunting revenue. These deer hunters like Jeff Foxworthy pay millions in property tax to the state of Kansas each year. Outfitters bring in millions.
Here's the thing - they'll shoot anything that walks as what we have is bigger than the german shepherd sized deer that grow in the south. In 5-10 years the genetics will be screwed then they'll sell and bail out -- that or they wont shoot much at all and you'll have an overpopulation situation as they dont allow any hunting and only shoot one or two bucks a year -- either way you're screwed - and other areas have been the same way.It's sickening, a quarter section in our area just sold just over $4400/ac to a deer group from Alabama. It really screws a lot of things up no one thinks about ie cattle leases, crop leases, taxes....when idiots pay that kind of money to deer hunt. No farmer/rancher has a chance if this keeps up. I lease property next to this Alabama bunch and you can bet I'll fill every tag I can and let anyone else that wants to hunt next to them and fill tags in the coming years. My deer management is taking a hard 180 to eradication.
I whole heartedly disagree -- property tax on Ag land is a drop in the bucket - it's worthless and makes no difference to the bottom line if a farmer or out of state person buys the land.160 acres leases for about $2000 minimum. Then all the corn they buy for their feeders, the feeders themselves, trail cameras, tree stands, etc. They come and buy archery equipment, bows, arrows, scent products, blinds, tower blinds, etc. They buy houses, land, etc. 160 acres of terrific deer habitat just sold for $435,000 15 miles down the road from me. A retired fellow from Nebraska bought it to strictly bow hunt. They are not buying 160 acres to manage for pheasants, NR's are buying land for deer hunting. It isn't even close. Topeka is cashing in big time on deer hunting in Kansas. If pheasant hunters contributed that much you can bet they would cater to them. They know where the money is.
Here are some local listings here, and this is just for a few counties here. It is a mega jackpot state wide. Just check out Whitetail Properties. https://www.nextechclassifieds.com/search/land/?
damn man, a little truth and you change your stripes?Well I never said farmers and outfitters were reporting leasing fees. But they do bring in out of state hunters who spend money with them and local businesses. Farmers like the extra income. And property tax does add up. Lots of money coming in to realtors selling prime deer land. It isn't upland hunting that people are purchasing land for. I never gave any credit to Topeka. Learn to comprehend what you read. You must think I am all for non resident deer hunting and that is not the case, in fact I despise it. 1995 will always have a sickening feeling in my stomach. It was the worst thing to happen for Kansas deer hunters. I am an upland hunter first. Have been since the 70's. Will hunt 4 states this year. But the cash cow isn't upland hunting and I am glad for that. We don't need more out of state upland hunters, we need more resident hunters. Only a matter of time before non residents double resident hunters. As bad as Kansas is in it's hunting regulations, it really has nothing to do with bird numbers.
I never changed anything.damn man, a little truth and you change your stripes?
Signed into law by President Ronald Reagan in 1985, it was well on the way before 2002.The hunting from 2002-2011 was better than the 90's for pheasants.
What are you even talking about? 2008-2011 were some of the best years. 1997 is when we had 16 million CRP acres enrolled. A few years later pheasant numbers took off. Hunting was good in the 90's but not like 08-11. 2010 Kansas harvested nearly a million birds.Signed into law by President Ronald Reagan in 1985, it was well on the way before 2002.
maybe you were too little to know that.
Hunter94 and kshusker, I think you might have a little bit of "outta sight outta mind" going on. Just because you don't see the motels full of deer hunters doesn't mean they aren't here in droves. They don't stay at the motels because they are at the outfitters or at their own Morton building that they've paid to have put up on their land they've way overpaid for jacking all the property tax up for everyone else. And the argument of the hunter or farmer would have to pay that property tax also doesn't hold up because no farmer or rancher will/can pay these prices so they wouldnt be paying these crazy property taxes if it weren't for bambi. The deer hunters money is being spent and a helluva lot of it. It might just not be at the motel and diner that you notice. And id bet most of these deer hunters spend more on corn and food plot seed each year than the average bird hunter spends here.
It's definitely shifted money from the small town motels and restaurants I'll give you that. We kept rooms booked a year out for a long time, now you can call on the way out and reserve one. I'd love to hear from some chamber of commerce members from out west and see what they say. And do any of them voice the issue with their state reps? I hate the deer deal buddy I just think the state sees it as it's cash cow now. Maybe they saw the demise of the bird deal coming and knew they needed a fresh market but seems its where the focus is now.As far as property taxes - this is on Ag land -- AG land has very little property tax collected on it compared to residential property relatively speaking --- raw land and especially ag land is not assessed as high of a tax as residential land. You can look up the KS Statutes - study mill levy's and assessments -- it's all public information - so my point I dont care that Billy Bob from Alabama buys shxt land covered in cedars in SE KS for $3k an acre -- no one is benefiting from that except the Real Estate agent, and the seller. The county/state/local school district/township is collecting the same property tax whether Jim Smith Trust from KS still owned it or Billy Bob and his 7 brothers from Alabama bought it.
Secondly no one can argue that deer hunting restricts the # of people that can be "ran" or hunt said property in a year -- If you have 1k acres of good bird and deer habitat - the # of bird hunters that can hunt the 1k acres is multiples of the # of deer hunters --
The state is going to get it's money in spades and local communities when the larger # of people are out spending money at cafes, motels, gas station etc. Take 16 people hunting upland on the 1k acres in a season each spending 2 days - hunting - 32 days those people are out spending money -- The Deer hunters lets say 4 of them spend 5 days - 20 hunter days they were here -- The upland folks will spend far more in the state than the deer people will.
I'm not arguing what their expenditure is per person - it's the total expenditures on a Macro level - Bottom line - you have a healthy upland population and lots of access - upland hunters will have more of an economic impact on the state and local communities than a far far smaller # of deer hunters.
Secondly - I've said this many times - we've already screwed the pooch - but it's possible if the right govt program is in place -- we could get it back -- BUT -- how many states have solid upland #'s? VERY FEW _- not more than a small handful -- How many states can you hunt a white tail in? ALL OF THEM -- white tails are not a scarce commodity - upland birds are -- you make more money on something that is scarce and not as widely available.
They didnt - this started years ago -- It's the low hanging fruit mentality and the landowners/outfitters looking to profit off of the animal -- likely easier to deal with less people I dont know - but the short sightedness of the elected officials and landowners is appalling - Being brainwashed by Big Ag companies, some greed, land policy, some economics and only thinking 2-3 years out vs thinking 30-60 years out or more is the problem.It's definitely shifted money from the small town motels and restaurants I'll give you that. We kept rooms booked a year out for a long time, now you can call on the way out and reserve one. I'd love to hear from some chamber of commerce members from out west and see what they say. And do any of them voice the issue with their state reps? I hate the deer deal buddy I just think the state sees it as it's cash cow now. Maybe they saw the demise of the bird deal coming and new they needed a fresh market but seems its where the focus is now.
Little ole Rush Center Kansas population under 200. Several houses there have sold to NR deer hunters. One house set on 12 acres. It isn't just ag land. I am not arguing in favor of deer hunters, just spelling out the facts. Just look at the year end reports and see how much more deer tags brings in revenue compared to regular hunting licenses. Remember that many of those hunting licenses are sold with a deer tag. Over a third of those hunting licenses go to deer hunters. But the real revenue is in fishing.As far as property taxes - this is on Ag land -- AG land has very little property tax collected on it compared to residential property relatively speaking --- raw land and especially ag land is not assessed as high of a tax as residential land. You can look up the KS Statutes - study mill levy's and assessments -- it's all public information - so my point I dont care that Billy Bob from Alabama buys shxt land covered in cedars in SE KS for $3k an acre -- no one is benefiting from that except the Real Estate agent, and the seller. The county/state/local school district/township is collecting the same property tax whether Jim Smith Trust from KS still owned it or Billy Bob and his 7 brothers from Alabama bought it.
Secondly no one can argue that deer hunting restricts the # of people that can be "ran" or hunt said property in a year -- If you have 1k acres of good bird and deer habitat - the # of bird hunters that can hunt the 1k acres is multiples of the # of deer hunters --
The state is going to get it's money in spades and local communities when the larger # of people are out spending money at cafes, motels, gas station etc. Take 16 people hunting upland on the 1k acres in a season each spending 2 days - hunting - 32 days those people are out spending money -- The Deer hunters lets say 4 of them spend 5 days - 20 hunter days they were here -- The upland folks will spend far more in the state than the deer people will.
I'm not arguing what their expenditure is per person - it's the total expenditures on a Macro level - Bottom line - you have a healthy upland population and lots of access - upland hunters will have more of an economic impact on the state and local communities than a far far smaller # of deer hunters.
Secondly - I've said this many times - we've already screwed the pooch - but it's possible if the right govt program is in place -- we could get it back -- BUT -- how many states have solid upland #'s? VERY FEW _- not more than a small handful -- How many states can you hunt a white tail in? ALL OF THEM -- white tails are not a scarce commodity - upland birds are -- you make more money on something that is scarce and not as widely available.
Sir I am afraid you missed the point. Non resident bird hunters are more then welcome.This is for sure, the BS on this thread is getting way too wearisome and pounding on each other isn't going to help anyone's cause. But you all did accomplish one thing...as a nonresident upland hunter, I NEVER want to hunt in Kansas where I'm not wanted. All you "residents" can spend your own money to improve your habitat, you can put your money where your mouths are and see how far that gets you. Good luck!
