yes, seems only reasonable to get an accounting for the habitat stamp fees?
but i used to think a simple bird count was reasonable too, until i was told it was unnecessary.
When do we start the push for change?
- Thread starter GetTothePoint
- Start date
but i used to think a simple bird count was reasonable too, until i was told it was unnecessary.
s.davis
Well-known member
My question is: is that true? If it is, why does Minnesota have a Walk-in stamp? Is their walk-in not funded with P-R money?
BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
Minnesota has 5.5 million acres of state land or something like that. Their pr money could be going there.
Prairie drifter was on here a while back and mentioned that wild life and parks had hired someone fulltime to sort out where it could and couldn’t go and that it had made his life easier.
I was always under the impression that pr funded programs were equal opportunity and that sportsman couldn’t be charged for utilizing them because of the way they were collected?
Somewhere on this discussion board Either a KDWP employee or the actual KDWP account responded and gave the simple form of the answer - or hell I saw it on the KS Hunting/Fishing FB group from an actual Wildlife and parks employee.
You hit the nail on the head - the information we have been told and I believe came from the "horse's" mouth was that if you charge an access fee or some sort of stamp - it cuts down on the funds you get from the feds - so there really is NO point in doing so. Stupid system - we can all agree - but unless we want to try and redo the government red tape - work within the system that's there.
I'd encourage anyone questioning how the funding works to get somewhat of a grasp on it to read this article about Oklahoma -- they were thinking outside the box and their current governor much like most of our KS elected officials are too dumb to get creative. I'm calling a spade a spade -- our KS elected officials and those running the KDWP are fricking stupid and only care about themselves or a few large landowners or outfitters lining their pockets to adopt policy that is suited for them. Pay attention about halfway down to 2/3rds where the First Nations Chief is discussing the financial impact the state of Oklahoma received from their arrangement. I've hunted for years and spent a lot of days a field - only seen a game warden 2-3 times and been checked that many. There is no funding to even properly run the department because the state doesnt know how to get it creatively and instead the cronies are just concerned about lining their own pockets.
If you dont want to read the article - here's one sentence that stands out.
Oklahoma Gov. Stitt won't renew hunting, fishing compacts with Cherokee, Choctaw tribes
Stitt notified the state's two largest tribes the agreements would end Dec. 31, they say.
www.oklahoman.com
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
I don't think we would lose federal dollars.
Well then don't charge hunters then but require them to check in and check out. Seems reasonable for the KDWP to collect data on hunter success.Somewhere on this discussion board Either a KDWP employee or the actual KDWP account responded and gave the simple form of the answer - or hell I saw it on the KS Hunting/Fishing FB group from an actual Wildlife and parks employee.
You hit the nail on the head - the information we have been told and I believe came from the "horse's" mouth was that if you charge an access fee or some sort of stamp - it cuts down on the funds you get from the feds - so there really is NO point in doing so. Stupid system - we can all agree - but unless we want to try and redo the government red tape - work within the system that's there.
I'd encourage anyone questioning how the funding works to get somewhat of a grasp on it to read this article about Oklahoma -- they were thinking outside the box and their current governor much like most of our KS elected officials are too dumb to get creative. I'm calling a spade a spade -- our KS elected officials and those running the KDWP are fricking stupid and only care about themselves or a few large landowners or outfitters lining their pockets to adopt policy that is suited for them. Pay attention about halfway down to 2/3rds where the First Nations Chief is discussing the financial impact the state of Oklahoma received from their arrangement. I've hunted for years and spent a lot of days a field - only seen a game warden 2-3 times and been checked that many. There is no funding to even properly run the department because the state doesnt know how to get it creatively and instead the cronies are just concerned about lining their own pockets.
If you dont want to read the article - here's one sentence that stands out.
Oklahoma Gov. Stitt won't renew hunting, fishing compacts with Cherokee, Choctaw tribes
Stitt notified the state's two largest tribes the agreements would end Dec. 31, they say.www.oklahoman.com
GetTothePoint
Well-known member
I posed the question about the SD habitat stamp on their thread "one item for the birds" and a link was posted to the balance sheet of funds used so far and it looks better than I would have guessed as far as money allocation but if you go all the way through it there is a few hundred thousand that they've allocated to lake issues/repair that are pretty questionable. Maybe these daily passes at the lake need to get a little steeper?
Just as reference here's SD's expenditures. Their stamp is $25 and going into yr 3 of the program.
Just as reference here's SD's expenditures. Their stamp is $25 and going into yr 3 of the program.
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fsentkilr
Active member
If you noticed it's the same few posters bashing NRs and WIHA habitat. I don't think some are smart enough to realize that not all WIHA is for upland. They hunt waterfowl on wheat fields, call predators, hunt mule deer which live in wide open pastures as well as upland. They also don't realize how much money you guys bring to our state. I have several friends who own businesses, bars, restaurant's ect. and deer season and bird season they often make more than a whole quarter in the off season. I also have the feeling a lot of the ones that are having bad luck don't hunt very hard, as like you say successful upland wild bird hunting is work. Some of the same guys that bash hunting pen raised birds brag on the slaughter that occurred from around 2006 until 2011 and the birds were so thick then it actually wasn't any different. I actually enjoy having to work and watch my dogs work rather than shooting a limit every day in a couple hours. I had a very good year last year, and I hunt WIHA and private. I actually shot a limit on WIHA the last day of season nw of Dodge where I was assured on here there weren't many birds. The end of my rant, don't let the naysayers on here stop you from coming. Reading through this thread reminded me of why I quit coming to this site.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Not one person on here has bashed a NR at all. Show me where a poster on here has singled out a Non Resident. Many have been critical of Kansas Legislature, but no one has singled out any particular non resident, only the way hunting regulations have been managed. If you take the time to actually comprehend what has been written, you will see that there is just as many NR's who are disappointed in Kansas hunting regulations.
GetTothePoint
Well-known member
It may be a lot of reading for some but read the entire thread before bringing up issues that were mentioned many times throughout.
fsentkilr
Active member
Lol. All you do is bitch about out of state deer hunters. No landowner owes you as a resident any more access than a non resident. I hadn't been on here in forever because of guys like you, but I am surprised that you weren't talking about the snow killing all the pheasants. I am pretty sure one out of state deer hunter that leases some ground to hunt on, comes here for several weeks, buy hotel rooms, meals, gas does more for the state economy than guys like you that own very little if any ground, pay minimal property taxes, but still think because your license plate has a KS you deserve more than out of staters.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Wrong again! I bitch about the way the KS Legislature manages deer hunting in our state. Both resident and non resident regulations. Nothing personal at all against individual hunters. You know, this thread was civil til you came back. No one was slinging insults or anything toward one another. Just passionate hunters seeking change. Not just in Kansas but across the entire pheasant range. Too bad you couldn't bring something useful to the discussion.
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westksbowhunter
Well-known member
fsentkilr
Active member
Ok whatever. Everybody on here has read what you have said and know where you stand. I'm done.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Bye if I have personally offended a non resident deer hunter, I hope they send me a private message to discuss. I don't have a problem with any law abiding hunter regardless of where they reside.
Fsentkilr, if you don't agree with westksbowhunter, that's ok. People should disagree. People need to disagree, but find a way to disagree in a civil way. Look at the dialogue online. If you are me and I have to read this thread all from the start, how does it read? I'm not saying you are wrong or westksbowhunter is wrong. I want this forum to thrive, but if people can't get along, I have to figure who to throw out. And honestly, I don't want to get rid of anyone. However, I have seen how politics and issues divide people. So yeah, either figure it out, agree to disagree or let me know one you are bowing out, because this seems to be a issue. If there is a issue, just report it intelligently and I'm happy to take a impartial look.
I will be the first to admit that early on I thought to blame nr hunters. I hunt with several nonresident bird hunters. I know have changed my tune( which I as a humane am allowed to do) I to believe it’s a management problem and I’m not gonna pretend I know how to fix it but I do believe bird hunters fighting on these these forums doesn’t bring younger bird hunters into the the picture instead drives them towards deer hunting and waterfowl. Both of which I do especially goose and duck. There is a giant problem in deer tags in Kansas but we are not going to get anywhere fighting with one another. The only way we get any where is to organize at a grass roots level off the keyboard.
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I couldn't agree more with AteUp's statement I can't understand why a bunch of people with the same passion get on here and beat each other up. I struggle with this also, seeing how farmers are viewed on thus forum. I farm, my family farms. My great great grandfather started it after selling his wagon train in 1890 and I am very proud of my families history. I imagine most of Fesntkilr's frustration stems from forum members talking about how stupid we are, farming to the ditches, spraying and killing everything, calling us Dirtheads, defrauding the government; the list of insults goes on and on. Why would you expect people, who's way of life you continually demean, to do anything to better your hobby? I really hope someone on here can come up with good, constructive ideas. If not this sport won't exist in another generation. At least for those of you who don't farm, I will have ground and birds to hunt regardless.
GetTothePoint
Well-known member
I have been one of the ones to be critical of farming practices on here but never called anyone stupid for the record. I too am a proud farmer from a farming family. We are small in comparison but manage several hundred acres between leases and what we own. I choose to run things differently and manage for crops as well as wildlife and if you have birds on your ground to hunt you must have some habitat and not be a ditch to ditch guy either. I think the "attacks" are more state policy and overall management practice gripes than anything personal.
I have not read all the responses. But i have been pushing for a change in wildlife programs for years. Paying someone to set aside land, only to see the wildlife benefits disappear when crop prices rise, is ineffective. If we had taken the dollars spent on CRP, and purchased erodible land for permanent wildlife benefit, we would be much better off. Iowa has spent BILLIONS on CRP since it’s inception. It was enough to buy tens of thousands of acres, and manage that land for wildlife. You could get local buy in by including multi use options like hiking, biking, etc…. for recreation. Current system is a complete failure.
I've used the term dirthead I believe -- not all are that way - I've never been able to tour Mikes farm and would love to, to see his management practices which I'd guess are far different than most and wildlife friendly. He finds a way to make a profit and work with mother nature I'd assume since he's still in business.
None of us can argue that the old ideology of I do it that way because grandpa did, or the chemical or seed company tells me so etc is not part of the problem.
Farmers and Ranchers need to organize themselves better than they do now -- look at the ranching industry - there's been so much consolidation, the old stockyards act is just flaunted by the big 3 or 4 meatpackers and they are essentially taking a page out of Tyson's (chicken industry) playbook where they are screwing over all the ranchers.
Adapt or be swallowed up and left behind - it will happen to all you guys if you dont fight back and end the stranglehold the government and big industry has on you - Big Govt and industry could give 2 craps about whether or not what you do is sustainable - I'll tell you right now in my childs lifetime in the area of the Ogallallah aquifer the farmers are draining that sucker dry and my kids will see a huge change across that territory - I've already seen some pretty drastic ones in 20 years. No one takes a macro view - they all are stuck in the micro view and what is in front of their face --
So call it bashing - whatever - but it is what it is -- I could care less about those taking govt payments - our business does - but the best analogy I can think of is the frog in a pot of water slowly turned up to boil - farming/ranching has let that happen to them -- grassroots and going against the grain is the only way to change it.
I buy beef for our business through a "Millennial" rancher thinking outside the box - so there is some hope. I think in a year and a half we've bought 7-9 whole beef from her. I save money now - get a better product and can give a big F you to the meat packers and the stores. I just haven't figured how to do that with eggs, dairy and poultry yet which we use a lot of.
Anyways you're right arguing online does nothing - I'd love to meet those that share the same views or even have a different perspective and have a coffee/drink or whatever and have a good discussion - about the only way you can learn and understand other viewpoints. Mike the offer still stands - we dont live terribly far apart I believe. Look up Daryl Davis -- in the spirit of him - many of us need to be having those same discussions with those we dont agree with -- many are incapable of doing so or we wouldnt be in the present environment where everyone yells at each other if they dont agree.
***Diesel -- the offer stands to you if you are a farmer and have a differing opinion than some I've put forth -- I'm not a farmer but have been around it a lot, finally was able to buy my own land with some farming on it, hope to buy more. Not sure if you're in KS?