When do we start the push for change?

GetTothePoint

Well-known member


Here is a good read I was sent, it's from 2020 looks like but at least someone is talking about it. It's going to take a grass roots effort from all of us to make this happen. Every time you see a wildlife agent, nrcs employee, usda agent, or your local PF or QF chapter let them hear it. As a cattle producer and farmer in southeast Kansas this is an uphill fight against "Big Ag" and you can just see their lawyers/lobbyist squirming to get ahead of articles like this. Now that the crp contracts are dwindling we need to push for a buffer strip program to take hold. I'd rather see subsidies to help convince farmers to leave that field edge(that under produces anyway) left alone. It's going to take "the village" as your wildlife rehab efforts are only as good as your neighbors. Don't be quiet folks or this tradition we love is going bye bye in a hurry.
 
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I am a Quail Forever member in Va. ( State does absolutely nothing for gamebirds) would I and my friends be more helpful if we joined a chapter in KS. How can we as the "evil non-resident" help ?
 
We need to start demanding to see where all this "habitat" money is going and this crap of producers double dipping (and that's exactly what it is) on wiha funds while grazing or tilling that tract to oblivion has to stop. Everytime you pass a walk in that's bare ground or grazed call it in and complain. Call kdwp and ask why the bird report looks like a cut and paste job each year. Audit your PF and QF chapters and just see where that banquet/fundraising money is going. We're going to have to get the states attention as they are the voice to the farmer to get them to go back to the days where land husbandry meant something. We were raised that no matter how much land you have you leave all of it better than you found it. Not milk it for every penny and consequences be damned.
 
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We need to start demanding to see where all this "habitat" money is going and this crap of producers double dipping (and that's exactly what it is) on wiha funds while grazing or tilling that tract to oblivion has to stop. Everytime you pass a walk in that's bare ground or grazed call it in and complain. Call kdwp and ask why the bird report looks like a cut and paste job each year. Audit your PF and QF chapters and just see where that banquet/fundraising money is going. We're going to have get the states attention as they are the voice to the farmer to get them to go back to the days where land husbandry meant something. We were raised that no matter how much land you have you leave all of it better than you found it. Not milk it for every penny and consequences be damned.

When you see a WIHA tract that has no hunting value regardless of cause, report it to the KDWP. It will seek recoupment of $$.
 
We need to start demanding to see where all this "habitat" money is going and this crap of producers double dipping (and that's exactly what it is) on wiha funds while grazing or tilling that tract to oblivion has to stop. Everytime you pass a walk in that's bare ground or grazed call it in and complain. Call kdwp and ask why the bird report looks like a cut and paste job each year. Audit your PF and QF chapters and just see where that banquet/fundraising money is going. We're going to have get the states attention as they are the voice to the farmer to get them to go back to the days where land husbandry meant something. We were raised that no matter how much land you have you leave all of it better than you found it. Not milk it for every penny and consequences be damned.

Nothing will happen until there is a focus on soil health and bio diversity -- Until companies like Monsanto, Bayer AG, Pioneer et al can find a way to make money on soil health you're fighting an uphill battle -

We previously had it - how quickly it's went away since the 90s -- it's not just gamebirds, prairie birds, butterflies, insects, reptiles etc etc. List goes on --

You want to see what a micro environmental disaster looks like from modern farming - drive about 15 miles south on River Rd south out of Holcomb - once you cross the river bridge make a left turn on Holcomb Ln and continue south instead of following the curve west -- about 7 miles the road will veer west for a mile or half mile then head back south again where it will T at Parallel Rd -- Look south -- and to the west -- drive in there on the roads - about 30 square miles the @KDWP likely the NRCS office, FDA and whomever else was involved in 2012 made the absolute dumbest decision known to man when they tried to convert the raped farm land back to native grass -- luckily from what I'm told by my buddy who is a land manager near Kinsley the City of Hays has not made the same mistake on their many square miles of owned land.

You can go over into the flint hills of KS where we've let trees encroach and take over - to ranchers spraying their damn pastures - to ranchers overgrazing etc etc -- list goes on -- We dont work with mother nature - we continue to fight it to an extreme to line pockets of the big ag companies who could give 2 shxts what happens to the landscape --

The US outlawed a lot of stuff from the 60s to I think the 80s - they need to go on another banning spree so they can reinvent the wheel and use other solutions that are beneficial to mother nature and future generations - if they dont make changes people will keep raping things until nothing is left but wasteland. I will continue to beat the dead horse but the Ogallallah Aquifer in Western KS that stretches from TX, NM, OK, CO, to NE and maybe SD (unsure about SD) -- anyways they're sucking it dry - day of recockoning is sneaking up on us. Just not quick enough for anyone to be motivated to do anythig about it. But I dont know about you - I was in HS in the mid to later 90s and loved the outdoors - even from my childhood in the 80s it's amazing the amount of bio diversity that has went away in such a short time - especially in the 90s when spray EVERYTHING seemed to become the mantra along with GMO crops meant to literally destroy any biodiversity.

My buddy that I mentioned is a land manager and is 9 yrs younger than me - I met him when I was 2 yrs out of college with my first adult job in western KS and he lived next door and was in HS - we visited a bunch and had hunting and wildlife in common so have stayed friends -- anyways his job now is to manage lands for wealthy guys that invest from out of state and are well versed in govt programs and they task him with restoring raped properties they buy -- the stories he tells me about how the neighboring farmers get so mad at him for some of the practices he does to restore things and the asinine things some of the farmers do is really beyond belief.

***I am not anti farmer - frankly like people there are many dumb ones, and MANY MANY more just simply ignorant or have been brainwashed for lack of a better term by a keep up with the joneses mentality or by other corporate interests that tell them they have to do things a certain way.

Until we can move mountains there - it will only continue to get worse - I hate to say it. With the Bill Gates of the world becoming even larger landowners and pushing the little guy out the prospects seem slimmer by the minute. There's a son of some Russian Oligarch buying up western KS - he bought a chunk of land that borders an area I hunt out west just this past year or so that he bought from a NY hedge fund family - I'm curious to see what he has up his sleeve for the land and how it changes.
 
We need to start demanding to see where all this "habitat" money is going and this crap of producers double dipping (and that's exactly what it is) on wiha funds while grazing or tilling that tract to oblivion has to stop. Everytime you pass a walk in that's bare ground or grazed call it in and complain. Call kdwp and ask why the bird report looks like a cut and paste job each year. Audit your PF and QF chapters and just see where that banquet/fundraising money is going. We're going to have get the states attention as they are the voice to the farmer to get them to go back to the days where land husbandry meant something. We were raised that no matter how much land you have you leave all of it better than you found it. Not milk it for every penny and consequences be damned.

Look at the financials of Pheasants forever - I haven't taken a deep dive into DU - but PF does fuzzy math -- the money doesnt go where they say it does -- smoke and mirrors -- That being said - DU has done more for pheasants than PF could ever dream of in KS.
 
When you see a WIHA tract that has no hunting value regardless of cause, report it to the KDWP. It will seek recoupment of $$.
They aren’t about to change what they are doing with the WIHA. I’ve been told several stories from KDWP about why they lease up worthless ground. The most quoted is that they had to lease up the worthless ground from a landowner in order to get a separate piece that was actually decent. The next story I got about a chunk of winter wheat that had zero edges, no draws or waterways was that it was for goose hunters. Never mind the fact that the closest water was 70 miles away.

They can’t continue their 1 million acres PR spin to attract all the NRs if they pass ANYTHING up. The program has turned into a farce. People are starting to finally realize it.
 
Think about it for a second…. I started to call and report a WIHA that had been scalped back in November. If I’ve seen it, then hasn’t a warden or some other kdwp employee seen it as well?!? If not then my BS meter goes off…
 
Think about it for a second…. I started to call and report a WIHA that had been scalped back in November. If I’ve seen it, then hasn’t a warden or some other kdwp employee seen it as well?!? If not then my BS meter goes off…
Let your meter peg because they don't. The wardens are supposed to get by every spot in their region during the course of the year but if it's early spring when/if they do they have no idea what they look like come fall. Sounds crazy but that's how freely they hand out our money. I could take a walk-in atlas off the press and scratch off several spots each year as they are the same grass carpet or tilled field they have been for years. They'll tell you they will recoup money but they rarely approach it with the producers as they want the ground to continue to be enrolled. I've heard the same lines as stated above from CO's that it could be goose hunted or there could be deer in there. What they really mean is a goose has shit in there flying over it and a deer may have ran across it at one point. Even if you think they've seen it call them, then call them again tomorrow, and call their supervisor the next day. I really feel for the out of state guy who dumps big coin and vacation days to come here anymore.
 
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People seem to think its a upland hunting only program. I have great dove hunts on properties most people would think are worthless, shoot turkeys out of those barren pastures, and have even shot geese in those fields a goose might have pooped in once flying over. Regularly see pronghorn in the fallow fields further west. I'd lose a lot of hunting opportunities if they only focused on CRP acres for WIHA.
 
People seem to think its a upland hunting only program. I have great dove hunts on properties most people would think are worthless, shoot turkeys out of those barren pastures, and have even shot geese in those fields a goose might have pooped in once flying over. Regularly see pronghorn in the fallow fields further west. I'd lose a lot of hunting opportunities if they only focused on CRP acres for WIHA.
Never claimed it was a crp upland program but I probably look at it through pheasant colored glasses as I don't need places to hunt turkeys or deer, plenty of them out the back door. But I do believe these properties that are leased with our money should be based on the number of opportunities it should open up for hunters and to me the chance of hunters using it for a day or two of possible dove hunting or the chance geese might use it for a couple days should be weighed against the need to take pressure off the fields that are walked multiple times a day and have people parked there after they eat supper to hunt it the next morning. The good walk in gets pounded and then you drive by a 160 of harvested soybeans that the farmer is collecting money on just like the guy whose place gets hunted 40-50 times or more a year.
 
I drove by , hunted some walk-in last weekend. The guy had at least 9 quarters. In 3/4 sections pieces the 4 quarter being leased. 6 of the quarters were bailed. In this case I’m sure it’s probably coming out of crp, or maybe already out, I’m not sure why kdwp would pay that contract and maybe they didn’t fully. I got out and walked a little bit in the middle of one the swather hadn’t got to yet and the guy drove in. He was real generous and offered up some other land to hunt and did the same with another guy who was hunting the other end of the same parcel
 
People seem to think its a upland hunting only program. I have great dove hunts on properties most people would think are worthless, shoot turkeys out of those barren pastures, and have even shot geese in those fields a goose might have pooped in once flying over. Regularly see pronghorn in the fallow fields further west. I'd lose a lot of hunting opportunities if they only focused on CRP acres for WIHA.
Get otta here with those reasonable explanations.

Not Kansas but when I was enrolled in Iowa’s walk in program any and all agricultural practices were allowed on the land. It was simply “This private land is open to public use.” Whatever was there is what you got. Birdwatchers, asparagus hunters, deer, waterfowl upland hunters or just hikers all could use it.

The Kansas program may well be different, just speaking about what we experienced.

Maybe kinda like me having access to your backyard then complaining because your pool wasn’t heated. That may be harsh, but kinda the way farmers see it.
 
I don't blame the farmers, if they can get it they'll take it. I blame the state and the wildlife department. They aren't paying for a public use area they are paying for WIHA, Walk in HUNTING Access and it's the accountability I have issue with.

And for the pool reference, what if you spent your time and money to come out to my pool the state said was there but when you showed up it wasn't cold but drained?
 
local guys will still hunt what they can find, because it is handy. they will get what is left over.
NR's will simply stop coming to Kansas, i know that is my plan now too.
save driving 400 miles, spend the same money (license, gas, lodging, food, wear and tear, driving 6 hours each way)
on a preserve hunt a couple hours from home.
i don't like shooting pen raised birds, but economically it is beginning to just make sense.
 
“And for the pool reference, what if you spent your time and money to come out to my pool the state said was there but when you showed up it wasn't cold but drained?”

I guess if I knew that was a possibility I wouldn’t complain. If I didn’t know that was a possibility then I would take that as a lesson to know the rules.

I mean were the rules followed or not ? If tillage was done and wasn’t allowed then that is a whole different deal. If the farmer signed up and the rules said normal practices could be done, then sorry but that’s the way it is.
 
“And for the pool reference, what if you spent your time and money to come out to my pool the state said was there but when you showed up it wasn't cold but drained?”

I guess if I knew that was a possibility I wouldn’t complain. If I didn’t know that was a possibility then I would take that as a lesson to know the rules.

I mean were the rules followed or not ? If tillage was done and wasn’t allowed then that is a whole different deal. If the farmer signed up and the rules said normal practices could be done, then sorry but that’s the way it is.
Ahhh McFarmer is at it again, now moving on to the Kansas forum. So you live in SD based on what I have gathered. You know I personally talked to the upland coordinator in Nebraska awhile back and he confirmed exactly what you state. Hell in bad years you want to keep some habitat so birds can survive not "mow it if they say I can". You obviously don't have big issues up there in South Dakota, but why have you pushed this crap in the Nebraska and now Kansas forums? Not even the same playing fields comparatively.
 
“And for the pool reference, what if you spent your time and money to come out to my pool the state said was there but when you showed up it wasn't cold but drained?”

I guess if I knew that was a possibility I wouldn’t complain. If I didn’t know that was a possibility then I would take that as a lesson to know the rules.

I mean were the rules followed or not ? If tillage was done and wasn’t allowed then that is a whole different deal. If the farmer signed up and the rules said normal practices could be done, then sorry but that’s the way it is.
Don't give me the that's the way it is. I run cattle and lease out 50 of my acres of row crop to a neighbor but we choose to be good stewards and leave some forage on our pastures and buffer edges if we ever do mow, our crop have 30 ft edges of grass, and we never burn more than half and area in a year to leave habitat for what little quail we have left. Some farmers will work systems for all they're worth and then some. And that's what my argument is that the state and kdwp don't hold them accountable or just don't lease the spot to begin with.
 
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Birdbuster: Reading comprehension was always a problem for me in school. I learned to slow down and not assume anything while reading. It has worked for me.

Get to the point: Regarding “working the system“, I don’t think you are saying that a producer who signs up for a program and follows the rules is “working the system“ are you ? Going the extra mile as you claim to do is great, congratulations and keep it up. But if my contract says I can do any common agricultural operations, I will. If however there are restrictions, which in my case there weren’t, a producer should abide by them. How much more fair can that be ?
 
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Birdbuster: Reading comprehension was always a problem for me in school. I learned to slow down and not assume anything while reading. It has worked for me.

Get to the point: Regarding “working the system“, I don’t think you are saying that a producer who signs up for a program and follows the rules is “working the system“ are you ? Going the extra mile as you claim to do is great, congratulations and keep it up. But if my contract says I can do any common agricultural operations, I will. If however there are restrictions, which in my case there weren’t, a producer should abide by them. How much more fair can that be ?

I think we're getting at different points, I agree with your above statement. My issue is the state/kdwp poor allocation of resources or even if all funds are being allocated. If they would not lease spots with little to no value for wildlife or if the farmer has to hay it or graze it then they don't get their payment for the year so those funds can be used elsewhere. They're are a lot of farmers that laugh as they cash those kdwp checks knowing that the wildlife is poor on their places and have no intention of improving the overall habitat.
 
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