When do we start the push for change?

cheesy said:
Half the hunters bring the state almost exactly 3X the revenue of all the small game, bird, ducks, etc. Not that $4M is small potatoes, but the $12M makes the politicians and department heads salivate.
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I agree, totally. But I do think that's one of the things that needs to change.

If KS would go to the SD model, the revenue of small game, upland, ducks, etc would jump significantly. It would give them something else to salivate over.

So bump the hunting license from $97.50 to $125 + $25 habitant stamp. Make the NR small game good for 10 days with the 5 day split option. Put the $25 habitat stamp in a fund that can only be used to improve habitat on state controlled acreage (permanent improvements).

You can kill big bucks in suburbia. Deer thrive anywhere. Do nothing to improve deer habitat. Improve upland and the deer benefit anyway.

Just my .02
 
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Chestle said:
I agree, totally. But I do think that's one of the things that needs to change.

If KS would go to the SD model, the revenue of small game, upland, ducks, etc would jump significantly. It would give

them something else to salivate over.

So bump the hunting license from $97.50 to $125 + $25 habitant stamp. Make the NR small game good for 10 days with the 5 day split option. Put the $25 habitat stamp in a fund that can only be used to improve habitat on state controlled acreage (permanent improvements).

You can kill big bucks in suburbia. Deer thrive anywhere. Do nothing to improve deer habitat. Improve upland and the deer benefit anyway.

Just my .02
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The state doesn't control enough land to make a difference. You have to find a way to encourage landowners to make improvements.
 
Given how things go in Big Ag and Government, I don't see any way to sufficiently make habitat improvements.

OK, there's one way. As someone mentioned on here (McFarmer? I don't recall) if trespass fees for upland hunting created a lot more additional income than weed free moonscaped cropland then yeah, maybe there would be long term habitat improvement.

To get there, I suspect the majority of us would have to be ready to pay to play and pay significantly. Goosemaster would probably put his old F250 on blocks for the rest of his life.

As I mentioned before, back in '03 in the UK a syndicate of shooters at an Estate could expect to pay $40/bird plus staff tips for ~400 birds. Even at those prices the economics were touch and go for the Estates due to the cost of raising birds from chicks and maintaining suitable habitat and facilities. I have no idea what prices are now nearly 20 years later but I do know who to ask I think.

In short, we'd all better be ready to pay handsomely for truly great habitat. Again, IMO.
 
Apparently the state of KS owns 312,000 acres of public hunting land. There's also 120,000 acres of USFS land that KDWP could potentially work with U.S. Forest Service to improve.

www.backcountrychronicles.com

Total Public Hunting Land Acres by State for USFS, BLM, State Owned

Table of total public hunting land acres available listed by state including US Forest Service, BLM and State Lands. Total acres per person to hunt.
www.backcountrychronicles.com www.backcountrychronicles.com
 
cheesy said:
Nonresident figures only:

20k deer hunters bring in ($442+97.5) $11.8M.
40k other hunters bring in ($97.50) $3.9M

Half the hunters bring the state almost exactly 3X the revenue of all the small game, bird, ducks, etc. Not that $4M is small potatoes, but the $12M makes the politicians and department heads salivate.

Admittedly, this is all oversimplification, and I'm biased by being a nonresident, that grew up as a native, but has a lifetime license so still considered a resident, and I've shot more deer in the last few years than I have pheasants, all the while I'd rather be bird hunting than deer hunting....
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Here's where I'd argue that your equation is how a simpleton (not that you are) would view it - which ALL of our politicians have very short sightedness.

Lets say we were revisiting the heyday of the 80s-90s and up to 2008 or so of upland birds and there was MORE regulation as there should be for the deer and that non res # was cut down to 10-15k.

The birds are good so you bring in 100k non resident bird hunters - so maybe the revenue is about the same from license sales in either case - however what is not being thought about is that the "Other" hunters trickle down effect - that's 80-90k more people than the deer people out spreading their money at gas stations, motels, small town restaurants, plus some of those non res may be activating residents to join in on the fun and hunt with them thus triggering them to spend money.

Either way you cut it upland/small game/waterfowl hunters will have more of an overall effect than deer hunters -- deer hunters lock up large swaths of land and the density of deer hunters CAN NOT be as great as it can for small game/upland birds. The economic effect is far larger without deer. Until then I'll keep hoping we get a disease to wipe out every damn last white tail this state has. I hope and pray to see that day.
 
Chestle said:
Apparently the state of KS owns 312,000 acres of public hunting land. There's also 120,000 acres of USFS land that KDWP could potentially work with U.S. Forest Service to improve.

www.backcountrychronicles.com

Total Public Hunting Land Acres by State for USFS, BLM, State Owned

Table of total public hunting land acres available listed by state including US Forest Service, BLM and State Lands. Total acres per person to hunt.
www.backcountrychronicles.com www.backcountrychronicles.com
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A majority of that tiny 312k acres is outside of the pheasant range.
 
I drove around yesterday afternoon looking at walk-in after hunting the morning on a big chunk of state owned land. I couldn’t help but wonder how many hours and how many gallons of gas had been wasted on some of these patches over the years.
I truck camped last night at a sfl and woke up this morning. The 88 acres available to hunt on this lil state lake looked better than anything I’d seen on walk-in the day before so I got out and walked a little bit and had a covey of quail up within a 100 yds.
 
Chestle said:
Is it in quail range?
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Used to be. All the quail moved west. Kansas ranks 49th in the U.S. for public lands. Trying to focus efforts to improve habitat on public lands will do nothing. Need a program like Iowa has. KDWP only has the title to about 65,000 acres.
 
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“ Until then I'll keep hoping we get a disease to wipe out every damn last white tail this state has. I hope and pray to see that day.”

Jebus, that’s a little harsh. Why the hate ?
 
westksbowhunter said:
Used to be. All the quail moved west. Kansas ranks 49th in the U.S. for public lands. Trying to focus efforts to improve habitat on public lands will do nothing. Need a program like Iowa has. KDWP only has the title to about 65,000 acres.
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As BrownDogsCan2 just pointed out, even a SFL can provide some coveys. The state has those lakes forever. You have to start somewhere.

As for Iowa, what the HAP program? 29,000 acres total? Or is there something else Iowa is doing as well?

I had a lot of hope for Nebraska's 5 year Berggren plan that ended in 2020. Reports from this year make it sound like the plan couldn't counter this year's environment. At least they are spooling up Berggren Plan 2.0; they're not giving up.


Oh, yeah. Big deer. Bah. The selling of Kansas deer has NOT been a good thing overall. IMO. However, we have to be careful what we wish for. Chronic Wasting Disease may solve the selling of KS deer but it'll go way beyond that species.
 
I did communicate with my UK buddy. A 400 bird shoot at a "name" Estate is now running about $21,000. I mention this because these bird shooting multi-thousand acre Estates are primarily managed to provide 15,000+ strong flying, high flying pheasant per season for the guns. Some hatch their birds, some raise them from chicks but the whole farming/rearing/predator control/ bird managing/bird shooting operation is focused on shooting pheasant.

So when we talk habitat and large pheasant populations, the folks that have been refining their process for literally hundreds of years are positing that it costs about $50 per bird to make a profit when doing all of that. Of course they do have the expense of buying and then feeding the birds to maturity.

Point of reference only.
 
That's 29,000 managed acres more than Kansas has added. They are making an effort with private landowners and each one that I have hunted has good habitat and birds. They also have 755,000 acres available for public hunting. Colorado has the pivot corners. Kansas has overgrazed cattle pastures and baled crp fields in WIHA.
 
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GetTothePoint said:
Deer hunting has sure screwed a lot of things up. It has driven land prices and lease prices through the roof in our region. City guys and out of state hunt clubs grabbing up river bottom timber for more than ag land around here right now.
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Deer hunting hasn't screwed up anything, Kansas Legislature and its method of deer management and regulations has. If they would have stuck with their promise of 1500 non resident tags we would not have this mess. It has ruined all forms of hunting.
 
westksbowhunter said:
That's 29,000 managed acres more than Kansas has added. They are making an effort with private landowners and each one that I have hunted has good habitat and birds.
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I haven’t hunted Iowa since the 90s. I am actually curious as to what Iowa is doing.

What do the managed acres offer?

What are they doing with landowners?

Interested as in maybe I can include some of it in the emails to the KS commissioners. I know. Pissin’ in the wind. Gonna do it anyway
 
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