The dangers of conibear traps

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birdshooter

birdshooter

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This subject has been discussed here before. In light of a recent incident where a dog was killed in Minnesota (see link below) it brings again to light the dangers posed to hunters and dogs from body gripping traps such as the conibear. From what I have learned through articles and such is they are not easy to release, even if you may know how. Add that to a struggling dog and you the owner being in a panic situation combined with the precious little time to do anything, I'm not sure most would be successful?? I dunno.

I am interested in hearing everyone's opinion on what can or could possibly be done (if anything) to lessen the chances of these things killing dogs who happen across them. It's a touchy subject as trapping on public grounds is completely legal. I would especially like to hear from those of you who do trap and elicit any ideas of how these traps could be set to lessen the dangers.

Could other traps be used with equal effectiveness that are not lethal??

Just to be clear, I'm not against trapping, just trying to understand what could possibly be done to make it safer for our hunting companions.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/138013713.html
 
More dogs are killed by cars each year. Possibly every one should quit driving? No? :D Well I believe it is a important thing to leave the rules and regs for trapping alone, and live with the ocasional accident. As I have said before, simply educating your self as to where trappers like to set, will take care of 99.99999% of any issue. These style traps are an imporant tool and one of the most humane kill traps you can use. So to take them away would be a bad Idea. I believe no hunter, trapper or outdoors man rights should be weekened, changed or taken away. Enough is enough. We have lost too many rights allready.
 
Well-stated, FC. A major issue in this country is control implemented to appease one interest group while castrating other interest groups. Compromise & common sense would result in better harmony & and ALL outdoorsmen/women need to support one another regardless of individual focus areas. There's no gain in throwing folks under the bus.
 
One more thing is I think the guy is a not so smart person. If he just educated him self he could have saved his dog. To shoot the dog was him killing the dog, not the trap.:rolleyes: The trapper who lost his dog maybe was doing just as I said earlier??? letting his dog run around while he is trapping?????? How stupid is that???? Well, often where you trap you find others trapping....Exactly why you can guess very close to any area a trap may be. This guy took a dog to a high probable location for traps, and in fact was trapping him self. So maybe he should fall in the category of not being able to legislate stupidity. What was going to keep his dog from running ahead,obviouslyy not paying any attention to where his dog was, and getting caught in one of his own traps???;)Who's to say if these stories are entirely true. Do we think Peta folks dole out false info any more? Just sayin.:rolleyes:
 
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Trappers are important...no doubt.
Predator populations illustrate that fact clearly.

However, traps are not always the issue that placement is...someone placed a trap near a parking area on a Pennsylvania Game Land...tho I reckon legal and marked, few dogs read....and the paper was nearly illegible to me.
Legality of an action does not always imply wisdom of an action.

Personally, I'd vote to outlaw snares, even the so-called safe ones.
Not all dogs lie patiently awaiting help...flopping around in fear can do much damage well short of death.
Snares are cheap and easy to use and because of that many out to reduce coyote populations on "their" deer lease,farm and hunting area(often public) are using them, more and more.
Speaking of Ohio, WVa and Pennsylvania but would expect the ease of use to be popular everywhere with those who are not simply trappers, professional or hobby...some folks just want to kill coyotes that affect their deer.
Their use "traps" may not rise to the level of wise or consider past themselves.

fwiw
 
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FCSpringer said:
More dogs are killed by cars each year. Possibly every one should quit driving? No? :D Well I believe it is a important thing to leave the rules and regs for trapping alone, and live with the ocasional accident. As I have said before, simply educating your self as to where trappers like to set, will take care of 99.99999% of any issue. These style traps are an imporant tool and one of the most humane kill traps you can use. So to take them away would be a bad Idea. I believe no hunter, trapper or outdoors man rights should be weekened, changed or taken away. Enough is enough. We have lost too many rights allready.
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I new this subject would hit a nerve with some of you... No need to get on the defensive Ken, as I stated, I'm not against trapping.

I agree with you the chances of this happening are slim, but it could happen and I would bet most would not be successful in releasing the trap even if they knew how. These traps as I understand kill rather quickly and if your dog is out of sight when it happens, precious time is lost. You add all this to a frantic, struggling dog and an owner who most likely will be in a panic situation, you can see where the problem arises.

Avoidance will always be the best option and educating one self would help, but for those of us that are not educated on how to avoid likely areas, how do we attain this knowledge? seriously.. And even with this knowledge we are assuming that all trappers are ethical and responsible in where they place them. We have unethical hunters so It's not a far cry to think we also have the same in trappers.

I certainly don't have all the answers and even trappers themselves hate to see this happen as it brings a sad story to the forefront.
 
onpoint said:
Print this, laminate it and keep it in your dog gear bag.

http://www.terrierman.com/traprelease.htm
Click to expand...

First onpoint thanks for sharing that link. I love to trap and the way they describe how to release a conibear trap is exactly how I set them.

I think EVERYONE who hunts with a dog should keep a length of stout cord with a loop at one end to be able to manipulate one of those traps.

In the state of Nebraska. It is illegal to use a conibear type trap with a opening over 8" unless it is 6 feet off the ground or completely under water.

On Land owned or controlled by the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission
• Open Fields and Waters Program lands
• U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service waterfowl production areas
• U.S. Army Corps of Engineers land at Harlan County Reservoir
• County road right-of-ways

That size limit is 5"

I trapped before these rules went into effect (which is I believe 20 plus years ago) and I can state the catch rate for targeted animals has not decreased.

I am no fan of useless government intervention, but I do believe the laws in regards to conibears in Nebraska are fair.
 
Live2Hunt said:
First onpoint thanks for sharing that link. I love to trap and the way they describe how to release a conibear trap is exactly how I set them.

I think EVERYONE who hunts with a dog should keep a length of stout cord with a loop at one end to be able to manipulate one of those traps.

In the state of Nebraska. It is illegal to use a conibear type trap with a opening over 8" unless it is 6 feet off the ground or completely under water.

On Land owned or controlled by the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission
• Open Fields and Waters Program lands
• U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service waterfowl production areas
• U.S. Army Corps of Engineers land at Harlan County Reservoir
• County road right-of-ways

That size limit is 5"

I trapped before these rules went into effect (which is I believe 20 plus years ago) and I can state the catch rate for targeted animals has not decreased.

I am no fan of useless government intervention, but I do believe the laws in regards to conibears in Nebraska are fair.
Click to expand...

When I was younger and trapped a lot I caught a few critters in the 5 gallon bucket set and now know (after 10+ years of using a live traps) that was completely unnecessary. I did use 330s for beaver runs (underwater). It wouldn't bother me to not have conibear or snares used for land sets. I wouldn't even have an issue with leghold traps no larger than 1.75 on public land.
 
Live2Hunt said:
First onpoint thanks for sharing that link. I love to trap and the way they describe how to release a conibear trap is exactly how I set them.

I think EVERYONE who hunts with a dog should keep a length of stout cord with a loop at one end to be able to manipulate one of those traps.

In the state of Nebraska. It is illegal to use a conibear type trap with a opening over 8" unless it is 6 feet off the ground or completely under water.

On Land owned or controlled by the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission
• Open Fields and Waters Program lands
• U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service waterfowl production areas
• U.S. Army Corps of Engineers land at Harlan County Reservoir
• County road right-of-ways

That size limit is 5"

I trapped before these rules went into effect (which is I believe 20 plus years ago) and I can state the catch rate for targeted animals has not decreased.

I am no fan of useless government intervention, but I do believe the laws in regards to conibears in Nebraska are fair.
Click to expand...


Pretty much the same here 330's have to be submerged in water. And to any one, just remember this is typed, so true feelings or tone can be interpreted many ways. My self am not being defensive, but conversant rather, and would consider it a normal conversation, not an argument.
220's are a safe tool as most of them will never come in contact with a dog.
How many people can actualy say they have seen one set some where?. I bet the number is very low. You stand a great chance of running into one along a river bank, creek, dredge ditch, or culvert near a road. So road hunters most likely have the greatest chance of finding one. Another popular spot is an aproach culvert area exiting a woods. Wooded areas that have obvious small game paths leading from the woods to a corn field. Sets are offten near abandon farm sites or old run down buildings. 90 % of traps are on private land or in a ditch near the above stated areas. Most offten if you ask a land owner about trappers, you will be informed if there is in fact any one out there. Most trappers want to avoid you like the plague. Not many will trap in public areas because you are a nuisance to him. He hates it when you mess with a set they worked hard for. So that is the reason you never see one. They are avoiding the troublesome hunter in there mind. Thats a fact. What will most do if they find a trap?, even if they are breaking trap tampering laws? destroy, steal, or ruin the set. Public areas are low on radar for a trapper. Private land is highly sought after. When my dog trys to go down in a ditch near a bridge, river, creek, culvert area, entering a field or leaving near a road, I promptly hollar and get them out of there. In 30 some years no incidents. And if I do get one in a trap ever, which I doubt. I will go get them out, not shoot them. Trappers need lots of sets out to make it pay for gas alone. So most sets can be seen by driving bye. The reason they are by a road is for ease of access and they need many just to pay a little. Trappers if on public land, again look for the high risk spots by the road. Most will just trap rats out there, and even like to access that water where it comes closest to a road. I see no need for change, but rather education. Some people out there would like you to quit hunting too, but are you willing to give up any more hunting rights? No, I would not either. There is a wealth of info on here as well on getting dogs from traps and where to avoid them. This has been gone over a few times allready, and yes it gets the same post from me every time.;)
 
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Well said Fcspringer. People around where I live know that I use cage traps and call me for removal of raccoons from barns and outbuildings during trapping season. They want them removed so they stay out of the feed and from killing chickens and passing on any disease they have.
 
Live2Hunt said:
FCSpringer, you have a wonderful grasp on what a trapper does think.
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LOL, well the rafters have many hanging in the garage. No dog hair except from one lab. He was tresspassing 2 miles from where he had permission. He could not get the conni bear off the dogs head.:rolleyes: He took it to the vet who took it off. He wanted me to pay the bill. I told him if he did not want a tresspassing ticket, I would think about paying your own bill and giving me my trap back. He gave my trap back. No way in he!! should that dog have been in my trap. Most times this is the real case. A dog ending up where he is not suposed to be, or a tresspasser. The rest, a chance encounter in a high risk spot typicaly avoided by hunters. OH and the lab was fine. The trap was on his block head for hours with him running around like nothing. Basicly it said, hey look, my owner is an ideot.:D I use Duke 220's which are a lighter impact trap. I worked hard to make sure no one screwed with my sets, simpley by avoiding the pheasant and deer hunters. The deer hunter was the hardest to avoid, because of the whole deer in woods thing.:eek:
 
FCSpringer said:
Pretty much the same here 330's have to be submerged in water. And to any one, just remember this is typed, so true feelings or tone can be interpreted many ways. My self am not being defensive, but conversant rather, and would consider it a normal conversation, not an argument.
220's are a safe tool as most of them will never come in contact with a dog.
How many people can actualy say they have seen one set some where?. I bet the number is very low. You stand a great chance of running into one along a river bank, creek, dredge ditch, or culvert near a road. So road hunters most likely have the greatest chance of finding one. Another popular spot is an aproach culvert area exiting a woods. Wooded areas that have obvious small game paths leading from the woods to a corn field. Sets are offten near abandon farm sites or old run down buildings. 90 % of traps are on private land or in a ditch near the above stated areas. Most offten if you ask a land owner about trappers, you will be informed if there is in fact any one out there. Most trappers want to avoid you like the plague. Not many will trap in public areas because you are a nuisance to him. He hates it when you mess with a set they worked hard for. So that is the reason you never see one. They are avoiding the troublesome hunter in there mind. Thats a fact. What will most do if they find a trap?, even if they are breaking trap tampering laws? destroy, steal, or ruin the set. Public areas are low on radar for a trapper. Private land is highly sought after. When my dog trys to go down in a ditch near a bridge, river, creek, culvert area, entering a field or leaving near a road, I promptly hollar and get them out of there. In 30 some years no incidents. And if I do get one in a trap ever, which I doubt. I will go get them out, not shoot them. Trappers need lots of sets out to make it pay for gas alone. So most sets can be seen by driving bye. The reason they are by a road is for ease of access and they need many just to pay a little. Trappers if on public land, again look for the high risk spots by the road. Most will just trap rats out there, and even like to access that water where it comes closest to a road. I see no need for change, but rather education. Some people out there would like you to quit hunting too, but are you willing to give up any more hunting rights? No, I would not either. There is a wealth of info on here as well on getting dogs from traps and where to avoid them. This has been gone over a few times allready, and yes it gets the same post from me every time.;)
Click to expand...

I never caught a dog. You are right about culverts close to roads. As a kid at any one time I had 2 dozen #1 traps set on ditches within 50 yards of a road. It would have been a safe bet nearly every ditch/creek had traps out for mink over the course of a season. Those trappers deplete local mink and move on. I don't think trapping is too popular nowadays, but I'd be careful to keep dogs away from roadside ditches or creeks. I used small traps but there are folks that used 1.5 and 2 coil spring traps.
 
It's awful to lose a pet.
It's also clear that the anti trapping movement led by the Star Tribune and other animal rights groups are on a mission in Minnesota.
Trappers are an important part of the future of hunting in MN, especially if your a bird hunter.
 
You want to talk about a pile of crap - one of the lines in the article in SUnday's paper did more damage then anything against the trappers. The head of the trappers group said: Meanwhile, Cornish said few dogs are caught in traps. "I think they should just accept it as one of those unfortunate things,'' he said. I realize that trapping is an important thing for the overall hunting environment and that they take out many of the creatures that eat eggs and young birds, but there has to be a way for the traps to be better protected to keeps dogs out. If any of you really read the article, it talked about a guy that had to shoot his own dog because it was caught in a trap that he couldn't get it out of. I'm sure all of you could do that without having a problem! And don't tell me that the dog was probably trespassing or some crap like that - traps are all over the place - especially on public land.
 
When I was a kid trapper we caught a wide variety of critters with old-fashioned leg hold traps. Might catch a dog but a broken bone or lost toe is a lot better than death. I might also point out in all the hysteria over trappers rights, that this proposal would put Minnesota in line with 25 other states which already have those laws.
 
Extremist groups go from state to state. Mn is next on the list.
Stories of pets caught in traps are probably made up by individuals that are members of "NUTS" groups like PETA.
Then verified by other members. Take a picture of a cute pet, cute name. [Polka Dot] a kid and a tear jerking story. Send it to the Trib.

So what verification did Doug Smith ask for before printing the story?:(
 
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