Slowing the dog on a running rooster

2

2BLLABS

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I have a 5 month old lab pup that I have hunted alongside my 10 year old lab quite a lot this year. For the 5 month old its all about fun, no expectations, no real corrections and I'm quite encouraged at how well she is picking things up with a number of flushes and retrieves all on her own. Seems she thrives on trying to compete with the older dog.

My only real complaint with the older dog is when she gets on the scent of a rooster that is running straight away from me, typically on a deer trail or the like, is that she just goes and often times flushes the rooster out of range as I cant keep up. A couple of times now I have noticed the pup do the same thing, again only when a bird is on a trail and running in a straight line away from me.

I've done no correction to the pup in this case as I want her to continue to develop this drive and never think following a pheasant scent is a bad thing; however, looking ahead to next year, how will I correct this? How can I get the dog to follow the bird slower or hold up and wait for me? Is this possible?
Thanks
 
The bird will run until he feels the dog is too close.

Dog needs to be faster.

Seriously, that situation is tough. Usually the rooster wins.
 
Most "strong prey- drive" dogs will want to give chase and there's the rub.

My 6 year-old Golden (very strong prey-drive) would give chase if I let him. I can tell when he's on a strong scent - you probably can as well: head is lower, ears back and the pace quickens.

Try using a lead at home and introduce the command "eeezy." Pull back on the lead and give the command. This will take lots of work for you and your dog. A good book on retriever training may explain this technique. Use any words that convey slow down.

If the dog refuses to slow down, a stimulation may get his attention. I'm assuming you use a collar and the dog(s) have been introduced to collar stimulation.

In some situations you might try calling the dog back to your side and sort of regroup. I've used a long rope at times, but it's a hassle and gets tangled in the brush, under his legs, or both!

Let us know how you are doing and what seems to work - good luck.

PS: Hunting both dogs at the same time can be difficult, esp. if both like to run ahead!
 
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It is simple. You teach your dog to hup to a whistle. One toot, the dog sits and waits till you release them. We do it all the time. Most times I keep up, but if you need to you can sit them down, catch up and say hi on, or what ever command you use to go get em.:thumbsup: Teaching hup (Sit Stay) to whistle is done early on as a pup with just using food. Later in life when e collar intro is done it can be reinforced with that as well if you know how. I do not however like calling young dogs off or stopping them at that age. It can hurt the flush, or even the desire to go after a bird. First year or so, let her rip. But still teach the hup. The dog should sit with that command anywhere, anytime. For us, also on flush, wing, shot, and fall until sent. Labs are taught the same.
 
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My Britts are typically very staunch with my current prime 6 year old almost holding her point too hard ... birds sometimes have moved off and she is still standing there ... which is more than fine.

that said, occasionally they chase running roosters I believe that one of two things are happening out in front of me. The dog hears the bird(s) or the dog sees the bird run by them. If the dog hears or sees the bird, the situation changes. ... remember that shot and wounded birds need to be pursued so you have that.

As my dogs mature they do less chasing and more pacing towards the bird ... often pinning said bird between us or in a spot where the bird must hold or take flight.



Non pointing breed ... FCS advise probably is best.
 
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It is all about obedience. When you tell your dog no, or here, or whatever command you use, it should be obeyed. I have strong hard charging dogs. I guide with them. Sometimes when we are in the standing corn we can see the birds running in front of us! The command heel is enforced until shooters are in position. That bis really hard when a young dog not only smells but sees the birds! Obedience is the key here, sometimes it must be reinforced by stimulation, but that is the only way to keep control of your dog at any age. Every trainer will tell you the exact same thing. The dog is there for you, not you for the dog. Work on those commands at home then start to introduce distractions while you are training, that will tell you how your training is progressing. It takes time and puppies will make mistakes!
 
Joel: You're right on!

Max is getting harder to control - now at age 6. His drive is more intense and he is not slowing down...what to do?

He wanders off and hunts by himself and I continually have to bring him in front of me. I don't have an issue with bird-chasing, but the "hunt alone" is getting very irritating. Strong prey-drive is a good thing, but this is getting on my nerves!

Your thoughts?
 
Jon,

Somedays when the dogs are driving me nuts and they are running crazy I force them to heel. I make them stay next to me for a time, then release them but only for a short time then call them back. Once in a while all the obedience training goes out the door. Usually I give the dogs a little grace because I figure they only have a short time in the fall to hunt as well! In the end, love on them and they will want to please you.

Joel
 
Joel,

Good suggestion. Will try the heel idea; have done this in the past but probably not for a long enough spell.

As soon as I open his crate he jumps out and is in the ditch hunting...alone...one would think he would slow down!!
 
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jonnyB said:
Not sure letting a dog, at any age, chase a bird.
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I can name hundreds of field champions who are champions that are started out chasing in order to plant a solid flush first, and the pros who do it on every dog. There is a very good reason for it. At least in a "flushing" breed. Which labs are. They are not pointers. And forcing your pups to stop on moving birds from day one is a good way to create a "poor flush". Some like to call it a pointing lab, or some nonsense. But poor training, and poor habits, can lead to a poor flush. And poor flush can be hereditary. Hence creating the poor flushing, or pointer. :) Chasing is the best for a flush and also the best way to intro a gun by building drive and confidence. In a flushing breed.:thumbsup:
 
FCSpringer said:
I can name hundreds of field champions who are champions that are started out chasing in order to plant a solid flush first, and the pros who do it on every dog. There is a very good reason for it. At least in a "flushing" breed. Which labs are. They are not pointers. And forcing your pups to stop on moving birds from day one is a good way to create a "poor flush". Some like to call it a pointing lab, or some nonsense. But poor training, and poor habits, can lead to a poor flush. And poor flush can be hereditary. Hence creating the poor flushing, or pointer. :) Chasing is the best for a flush and also the best way to intro a gun by building drive and confidence. In a flushing breed.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with this in a young dog. You have to be very careful about creating bad habits. I would prefer a dog flush a few out of range versus having a timid flush because they are scared of getting shocked or scolded. I don't chase my dog as I watch some do. He knows to operate within range or he will get beeped which typically makes him turn. I maybe have to shock him once a trip, sometimes not. I give him one strong nick and he is done with it. This was taught at home. After he was 6 or 8 months old it became all the time. A flusher that can't be controlled is frustrating.
 
And "chasing" can be a very bad habit...whether it's deer, rabbits or roosters.

Once they start down that road it can be very hard to break. I try not to let my dog get out of range - at 6 mo. or 6 yrs.

What's a bad flush??

As for the "whistle-sit" routine: who wants to listen to a whistle all day? Almost as bad as an owner yelling!

Not sure what field champions are taught or how they are judged. Never hunted with one, but have hunted with great pheasant dogs...and the good dogs don't flush ahead of the owner. The original post in this interesting post/ series is about a 10-yr. Lab...
 
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jonnyB said:
And "chasing" can be a very bad habit...whether it's deer, rabbits or roosters.

Once they start down that road it can be very hard to break. I try not to let my dog get out of range - at 6 mo. or 6 yrs.

What's a bad flush??

As for the "whistle-sit" routine: who wants to listen to a whistle all day? Almost as bad as an owner yelling!

Not sure what field champions are taught or how they are judged. Never hunted with one, but have hunted with great pheasant dogs...and the good dogs don't flush ahead of the owner. The original post in this interesting post/ series is about a 10-yr. Lab...
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That would be a dog that points or pauses at birds instead of flushing them with aggression.

A bad flush is how pointing Labs got their start. The trait has become hereditary as the dogs have become breed for that trait. It is becoming harder and harder to find a true flushing Lab.

I agree with the whistle, I am not even sure I own one anymore. I try not to yell too much either
 
jonnyB said:
And "chasing" can be a very bad habit...whether it's deer, rabbits or roosters.

Once they start down that road it can be very hard to break. I try not to let my dog get out of range - at 6 mo. or 6 yrs.

What's a bad flush??

As for the "whistle-sit" routine: who wants to listen to a whistle all day? Almost as bad as an owner yelling!

Not sure what field champions are taught or how they are judged. Never hunted with one, but have hunted with great pheasant dogs...and the good dogs don't flush ahead of the owner. The original post in this interesting post/ series is about a 10-yr. Lab...
Click to expand...

I believe the "whistle-sit" method is described as a way to handle a running bird. Also, before knocking a field champion, or implying that they are trained poorly, go hunt with one. I use the whistle sit method on running birds. It works well. Last fall my dog sat down and waited, and when released she flushed a hen (who had been running) 10 yards away. She waited with a nose full until released and if it was a rooster the bird would've been bagged. That's how a flushing dog that's in control can be a benefit.
 
FCSpringer said:
I can name hundreds of field champions who are champions that are started out chasing in order to plant a solid flush first, and the pros who do it on every dog. There is a very good reason for it. At least in a "flushing" breed. Which labs are. They are not pointers. And forcing your pups to stop on moving birds from day one is a good way to create a "poor flush". Some like to call it a pointing lab, or some nonsense. But poor training, and poor habits, can lead to a poor flush. And poor flush can be hereditary. Hence creating the poor flushing, or pointer. :) Chasing is the best for a flush and also the best way to intro a gun by building drive and confidence. In a flushing breed.:thumbsup:
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Agreed! However the first mistake the owner is making is hunting a 5 month old puppy, especially with another dog. You are simply setting the puppy up for failure. I like to hunt young dogs as much as anyone but that puppy must first go through a basic gundog program consisting of obedience, force fetch, and collar conditioning which usually puts the dog at about 9 or 10 months of age at the earliest.

Nothing wrong with introducing a 5 month old puppy to the field, but it must be controlled and only an introduction.
 
FCS Springer, Mnaj Springer, and West KS Bowhunter, I have a question for you guys. When hunting wild roosters especially late season birds they tend to be very nervous around lots of sounds like car doors slamming, voices, whistles, etc. How do you stop a dog chasing a running rooster so that you can get close enough to have it flush within range? I use the vibrate button on my e-collar and my dogs have learned to turn and come back just as if I were to yell here. It seems to work great especially when I am trying to be as quiet as possible. What do you guys do or recommend in those situations?
 
I don't think I implied anything when referring to field champions...reread the post. Merely stated I haven't hunted with one.

I also use the collar buzzer to turn or slow down the dog vs yelling or whistles.

Isn't "field champion" work/trials different than hunting? Don't know, never experienced a trial.

I agree with Westksbow...hunt the puppy alone vs with an adult dog.
 
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goldenboy said:
FCS Springer, Mnaj Springer, and West KS Bowhunter, I have a question for you guys. When hunting wild roosters especially late season birds they tend to be very nervous around lots of sounds like car doors slamming, voices, whistles, etc. How do you stop a dog chasing a running rooster so that you can get close enough to have it flush within range? I use the vibrate button on my e-collar and my dogs have learned to turn and come back just as if I were to yell here. It seems to work great especially when I am trying to be as quiet as possible. What do you guys do or recommend in those situations?
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You don't do it in the situations that you describe, you do it in training. People who can't differentiate between training and hunting will never own a great dog. In the field, use the whistle but it takes countless repetitions in training for the dog to carry this over to the field in a hunting situation. One thing I never do is ever talk in the field. We make no noise and hunt into the wind. And I never hunt with more than 3 people. All you can do is give your dog the best advantage by following a strict training program.
 
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