I currently have my 6 month Brittany sight pointing a pheasant wing, per the exact instructions found in Gun Dog by Wolters. She knows her basic commands well, will freeze on whoa instantly, and understands the concept of go in easy, so my question is where should I take it from here in order to simulate real hunting situations and pointing based on scent, rather than sight?
sight pointing into scent pointing
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HUNTIN4FUN
Member
Well you have taught her that her eyes work and now you need to teach her to turn on her nose. One of the easiest ways to do this is to buy a package of hot dogs and cut them in small chunks, take her out side to a predetermined place where you have already put some of the small chunks of hot dog. Giver her some chunks to get her interested and then take her to the spot where you have put some other pieces and giver her simple commands (whichever you choose) to let her know to look. One that I use is I waive my hand palm down back and forth and say bird, bird, bird...... She will make the correlation that when you say the command and use your hand that you are telling her that something is there that she can't see and the only way for her to find it is to "turn on her nose". After this a couple of times when you feel comfortable that she is getting the concept take that wing and start leaving short scent trails. Put the wing in some taller grass where she can't see it and when she gets close tell her whoa but only when you are sure that she is on the scent of the wing. From here I would move to real birds, you would be surprised how much just a couple of birds with there primary feathers clipped will help in training. With thier primary feathers clipped they will continue to fly but not fly away so you can get multiple training opportunities on the same bird. ( A good way to stretch a dollar in this economy). Hope this helps and if you ever have any questions just post em up or pm me.
Uncle Buck
New member
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Thanks for the tips she sure enjoyed the hot dog game, got a chance to work the dog on some land that I know holds pheasants, made for an interesting trip and showed me how much work I have to do with her. The trouble I had with her for her first time in the field with wild birds around was that she was always going 100 miles an hour and over the course of the day wild flushed 5 or 6 birds before I was even close, and seemed to forget all those backyard "stalking" lessons. It was more as though she flushed the birds without ever really getting a grasp on where they were but stepped over them as she tracked the scent. If hunting season were open it would have made for a frustrating day. One behavior I noticed that I didn't understand is that she would lock up on point in certain areas and start digging after I released her from whoa. My thought is these were areas that birds had been bedded down and took off running after hearing her coming and left a strong scent. Any thoughts/advice for my next day in the field with her would be very much appreciated.
southernblues
New member
Uncle Buck
New member
If she is flushing wild birds you may want to plant some tame birds and whoa her up on point. The advantage is you know where the bird is and can use the check cord to make her stand on that bird. I also suggest you join NAVHDA CHAPTER IN YOUR AREA.
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@Draht-
Not really sure what you mean, I'm new to dog training and to describe it as best I can would be that she seems to get on the scent of the bird and gets too close and bumps the bird before she has a chance to point it.
EDIT- Doing a quick web search I found the following description of a Brit with the exact same issue I am having-
"His greatest fault is his drive and exuberance. When he gets "birdy" he goes into supersonic mode, meaning that he begins to search so intently and with such speed that he will bump a bird before he realizes he is that close to the critter. There is no such thing as being too tired to slow down a bit. A 30 foot drag line is of no assistance---he is too much of a whirly-gig for that to work. I do not discourage him on his "bird" search. Rather, I let him go, and it appears that the wheels may be spinning in his head telling him to ease up a bit."
I plan on heading out tomorrow morning and giving it a fresh start for the day. I'm going to have her on a check cord and I have been working all week using a hidden wing and using whoa as soon as I can tell that she is on the wing for sure before she closes too much distance. I think part of the problem may have been my inability to read her and understand what was going on. I am also hoping that by going as early in the morning as we can this time that we will see a few more birds or find them in better situations.
I am having a hard time getting access to any birds as the hunt club can't sell them to me due to licensing issues, and they won't have any from their supplier till October anyhow. My only option is to take her out into a CRP type situation with really spooky wild birds and I'm wondering what the best approach would be given my limited resources.
Not really sure what you mean, I'm new to dog training and to describe it as best I can would be that she seems to get on the scent of the bird and gets too close and bumps the bird before she has a chance to point it.
EDIT- Doing a quick web search I found the following description of a Brit with the exact same issue I am having-
"His greatest fault is his drive and exuberance. When he gets "birdy" he goes into supersonic mode, meaning that he begins to search so intently and with such speed that he will bump a bird before he realizes he is that close to the critter. There is no such thing as being too tired to slow down a bit. A 30 foot drag line is of no assistance---he is too much of a whirly-gig for that to work. I do not discourage him on his "bird" search. Rather, I let him go, and it appears that the wheels may be spinning in his head telling him to ease up a bit."
I plan on heading out tomorrow morning and giving it a fresh start for the day. I'm going to have her on a check cord and I have been working all week using a hidden wing and using whoa as soon as I can tell that she is on the wing for sure before she closes too much distance. I think part of the problem may have been my inability to read her and understand what was going on. I am also hoping that by going as early in the morning as we can this time that we will see a few more birds or find them in better situations.
I am having a hard time getting access to any birds as the hunt club can't sell them to me due to licensing issues, and they won't have any from their supplier till October anyhow. My only option is to take her out into a CRP type situation with really spooky wild birds and I'm wondering what the best approach would be given my limited resources.
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CIL hunter
New member
how far away should the dog go on point
when training the dog to go on point over planted birds how close should i let the dog get to the birds before i give the whoa command and coax her into a point position?
when training the dog to go on point over planted birds how close should i let the dog get to the birds before i give the whoa command and coax her into a point position?
birdshooter
Well-known member
At 6 months old there should be no need for wing pointing. throw the wings away !! and while your at it the Wolter's book as well.
As Far As Wolter's book...... Ask any professional pointing dog pro what his opinion of that book is.......
That may be cute to see a 7 or 8 week old pup to point a wing but it serves no purpose other than to see what a very young dogs looks like on point. Continued use will only teach the dog that it must see a bird first before it points.
As Far As Wolter's book...... Ask any professional pointing dog pro what his opinion of that book is.......
That may be cute to see a 7 or 8 week old pup to point a wing but it serves no purpose other than to see what a very young dogs looks like on point. Continued use will only teach the dog that it must see a bird first before it points.
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@birdshooter- I understand that the wing is no longer necessary, and if you look further down the thread I have been doing my best to get her on released birds although it may have to wait due to circumstances beyond my control. The only reason I mentioned Wolters is that it is how the dog has been trained up to this point and thought it might be relevant towards her future training and any advice people might have. What I had been doing with a pheasant wing was teaching her to point just the smell of the wing by hiding it in places where it was hidden from her vision and teaching her to point when she found the wing with her nose pretty much the way it had been suggested earlier in the thread.
What I was hoping for is some constructive advice with regards to techniques for training her without access to planted birds?
Today I took her out again to some land that holds wild pheasants, had her on a 30ft check cord to start the day and let her work. Three birds flushed wild before she was able to point them and I have a feeling a few more ran. As the day went on she grew used to working within range and I let her off the cord and she had her first successful point in the field. She caught the scent coming down wind to her got really excited but then moved a little closer and locked up on point. I walked in flushed the bird and had the season been open I would have had a decent chance at my first bird in a long time. After this the wind picked up and the dog got tired so we called it a day.
What I was hoping for is some constructive advice with regards to techniques for training her without access to planted birds?
Today I took her out again to some land that holds wild pheasants, had her on a 30ft check cord to start the day and let her work. Three birds flushed wild before she was able to point them and I have a feeling a few more ran. As the day went on she grew used to working within range and I let her off the cord and she had her first successful point in the field. She caught the scent coming down wind to her got really excited but then moved a little closer and locked up on point. I walked in flushed the bird and had the season been open I would have had a decent chance at my first bird in a long time. After this the wind picked up and the dog got tired so we called it a day.
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birdshooter
Well-known member
IMO what your doing by taking her out and letting her do what comes natural at this stage is just fine. If you haven't already I would also work on some basic obedience or yard work as it is called. Certain commands she will absolutely need to know. That will go a long ways toward getting at least some control and not just allowing her to run crazy.
As far as training birds, to be honest with ya, I wouldn't worry about planted birds this fall, just take her hunting as this will be her first season. Let her do her thing. If she points a bird by all means shoot it. If she bumps a few birds that's ok too. Wild birds are the best teachers of all and will teach her most of what she needs to know. The only thing I would caution is to not shoot any birds that she has bumped or rather she was scenting/tracking and pushed up without a point. Wild flushes are fair game, but you be the judge. The key is to keep it fun for her and continue to build her desire. This is her first hunting season, so make it all about her and not how many birds you can shoot over her. Next year when she is much more mature then work on the bird manners, if that is what you desire.
This is more for next year, but if your having trouble finding access to training lands or birds for training, you may want to seek out a Brittany club or other pointing dog clubs if you can find any or a local NAVHDA chapter as someone else mentioned. They usually have experienced people and access to birds, land and or equipment to help you out. A good resource at that.
Good luck this fall and keep us posted on her progress.
As far as training birds, to be honest with ya, I wouldn't worry about planted birds this fall, just take her hunting as this will be her first season. Let her do her thing. If she points a bird by all means shoot it. If she bumps a few birds that's ok too. Wild birds are the best teachers of all and will teach her most of what she needs to know. The only thing I would caution is to not shoot any birds that she has bumped or rather she was scenting/tracking and pushed up without a point. Wild flushes are fair game, but you be the judge. The key is to keep it fun for her and continue to build her desire. This is her first hunting season, so make it all about her and not how many birds you can shoot over her. Next year when she is much more mature then work on the bird manners, if that is what you desire.
This is more for next year, but if your having trouble finding access to training lands or birds for training, you may want to seek out a Brittany club or other pointing dog clubs if you can find any or a local NAVHDA chapter as someone else mentioned. They usually have experienced people and access to birds, land and or equipment to help you out. A good resource at that.
Good luck this fall and keep us posted on her progress.
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