i agree with one aspect of the problem, one more drought in spring and summer could be the end in some places for bird hunting as we knew it!
Reducing The Limit for Pheasants
- Thread starter Campbell76
- Start date
i agree with one aspect of the problem, one more drought in spring and summer could be the end in some places for bird hunting as we knew it!
The old rule says don't harvest peepers. Don't shoot birds out of an 8 bird covey. Quit early so they have an hour or so to gather up, especially when it's cold. There is documentation that extending the season on Bobwhite into the winter months, where snow,ice,lack of cover, predators, decrease quail population, reduces the breeding numbers of birds the next spring. Have to remember that early spring, late February to March are tough times for quail, low food reserves, changeable weather, beat down cover is a test to bobwhite. The germination from a sportsman to conservationist is the thrill of the flush.....afterward you worry if the covey got reformed by dark. Boy it was a lot easier when I was a kid! Now bag limits on pheasants, as the existential writer once opined, if you almost never harvest a limit, what difference does it make? Doubt it does. Quail a small reduction per bag limit might make a difference, especially WHEN they are harvested. Making the quail season earlier is I think a good idea, we did it for years, Enjoyed 2 openers every year. A lot less pressure west of 81 two weeks after the pheasant season opened. East both opened together, again spreading out the pressure.
quail season needs to end Dec.24th......bag limit 6....hours from 9 until 3.....
kansasbrittany
Banned
The pheasant population has limited us! How many times did the majority of us even pass 2 birds in one day last season? They could change the limit to 15 or 2 and I will still average a 1.5 birds per hunting day
Quail...anything to help the quail. There is no bird I would rather see thriving than the Bob. Gramps taught me the same things O&N mentioned above. If his post reaches one hunter that would not have otherwise been exposed to it, then the time he spent typing was time well spent:thumbsup:
Quail...anything to help the quail. There is no bird I would rather see thriving than the Bob. Gramps taught me the same things O&N mentioned above. If his post reaches one hunter that would not have otherwise been exposed to it, then the time he spent typing was time well spent:thumbsup:
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GSPlover I do believe what you wrote is true. I'm with the population as low as it is and habitat going away we may never rebound much at all. Yet our people in power keep pushing KS pheasant hunting but do nothing to address the real issue right now and that's the habitat that is being plowed under and planted to corn ditch to ditch.
Can't have upland birds without habitat.
Can't have upland birds without habitat.
FOOLISH POLS..........they really don't care.
The KDWPT upland game guy had 45 minutes on the agenda at this spring's Kansas Habitat Convention in Wichita. Generally speaking, he used it to defend the Dpeartment's position that lower limits and/or shorter seasons won't help, especially for pheasants. He did concede that under some conditions over-harvesting quail was a possibility.
Although it wasn't his main point, he did convince me to try to selectively harvest males when quail hunting. I guess they are not as a monogamous as I believed.
Although it wasn't his main point, he did convince me to try to selectively harvest males when quail hunting. I guess they are not as a monogamous as I believed.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Did anyone attend the KDWPT meetings on Monday and Tuesday? Wondered what was discussed.
great idea, i usually have time to do that when a covey breaks, flying through the timber and brush.......but i get it, can't sell licenses with a lower bag limit and a shorter season......
Bilbo Baggins
Active member
Duck, I sure agree with you. One of my best pheasant spots was a whole section of CRP that always produced four roosters. Two years ago it was plowed over and I am sure there was not even one pheasant on that section. Last year as I drove by and remembered the good old days (around four years ago). To my surprise, I saw a lone rooster standing next to the "No Hunting" sign that was recently placed on the section of black dirt ditch to ditch. It was a pathetic sight and made me sick. I am not so sure the "good old days" of just a couple years ago will ever return.
this is an old bullshit idea....they cancel or reduce deer tags all the time when there is an out break of CWD....it's the same theory, preserve the population until the conditions improve. the old arguments get tired when they defend license sales and revenue.....deer hunting has gotten to be so revenue driven they have to protect the breeding base.
very admirable....trying to save the last one! :thumbsup:
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
hunter94,
This is an interesting discussion. However, it is very difficult to compare harvest strategy and mortality issues between deer and bobwhite. One is eaten by everything that has pointy teeth and has an average life expectancy of about 9 months. The other can live for a decade and there are few predators that can pull off a kill working alone. One can produce a clutch of 14 or more, while the other can pull off triplets, but rarely does. Some discussion has been made on the environmental susceptibility of busting a covey with no time to regroup, and this is definitely an issue, especially in bad weather and in the northern portions of their range.
Covey size and whether to shoot or not shoot and how many was also touched upon. The thing there is that coveys often reform on a daily basis with a genetic goal of a covey size approaching 13 or so. Shooting X numbers out of a covey all season may sound reasonable, but with this adaptive penchant to group into a certain size group, it is easy to overharvest a local population doing so as an area with 10 coveys of 12 birds each on opening day can turn into 2 coveys of 12 birds late in January and the rule of taking X out of each covey all of the sudden becomes a terrific % of the population at that point.
One has also to differentiate between talk concerning local populations and the effect of season length or daily bag limits vs landscape effects of the same. Much research has gone into determining bag limits and season length. The normal finding is that the bag limit has limited effect on the end-of-year population. On heavily hit public lands, limits would have to be reduced to 2 or less to eliminate the potential of additive mortality. Bobwhite are just not a good public land bird due to their susceptibility to the gun. Yes, research in recent decades did prove that bobwhite are far from monogamous. Some females will lay 2 clutches for males to tend before sitting a clutch themselves. However, this is rarely more than a few percentages of the hens overall. Some will effectively pull two nests by also using a male to hatch the first. However, if you start doing the math on days, it is the rare hen to bring off a second nest themselves due to the number of days it takes to lay, hatch, and tend the same as their body condition drops out of the level where a second clutch could be laid.
Somewhere in here I sidestepped or ignored the productivity and mortality on the deer side of the equation. I'm happy with that on this site. Those of us more comfortable with smooth-bores and hardened shot are probably happy for that discussion to evolve while we're feeding the dogs.
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all good points PD, it is a complex issue, no one size fits all for ensuring a thriving pop. except good hunter discretion, which i would guess we need a lot more of........we need to police ourselves.
I think you are remembering the department years ago when politics and money didnt run it and science and preservation actually ran it.
Now it is a free for all on deer. They really don't limit the tags much and havent in a long time. I enjoy having choices where to hunt with my statewide tag but when you offer that and virtually unlimited doe tags for much of the state there is no management happening. Couple that with many people wanting to turn KS into a Texas and Southern pure pay to play clone, it makes it even more difficult to do any managment when the guys/gals who will shoot does and inferior bucks aren't allowed to hunt anywhere.
Unfortunately for us guys that like to bird hunt, deer hunting has started to ruin it for everyone else. What people think is "ideal" (I use that term loosely) deer habitat is not ideal in the least for birds. Little do they know if they put in habitat that was suitable for upland birds, the deer would get just as much benefit out of it and many more species would benefit instead of coons, possums and avian predators on a tree choked, cedar filled, tick infested chunk of prairie.
Unfortunately until revenue and politics step out of and leave the KDWPT, preservation and science will remain locked in the closet.
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westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Agreed! Think about hunting 20 years ago in 1994. Then think about hunting in 1974. Now fast forward to the direction we are heading in 2034. You better enjoy what is left for now because I doubt any of us will have an opportunity in 20 years. I can remember all the stories the old timers would talk about back in the 70's. The duck hunting stories, quail hunting stories, pheasant hunting stories. My grandpa always talked about how many jack rabbits there were in SEK. No one has seen a jack rabbit here since the 60's. KDWPT is cashing in now because this resource will not be renewable in 20 years.
mustistuff
Banned
post
these post seem to be bouncing all over the place. for me, I am kinda excited about not having jack rabbits running all over the place when I bird hunt. I don't deer hunt Kansas but the ranch I use a great deal is overrun with deer even with all the permits that are available, and on his ranch, more needs to be done. some winters there are over 600 turkey on the place, they eat something and it is mostly his crops, they love his ranch. one of course is the fish and game needs to try and keep the hunter's happy but they are also under a lot of pressure to keep the farmer's happy, the balance is nearly impossible. both of these specie consume a lot of food, something that is not much of a problem with either quail or most game birds. science is wonderful but politics is stronger, maybe dumber, but stronger. maybe fish and game dept. around the country should look for stronger leaders. I think the NRA stated awhile back that nearly 50% of our wildlife people don't or haven't hunted or fished. that's a bad trend
cheers
these post seem to be bouncing all over the place. for me, I am kinda excited about not having jack rabbits running all over the place when I bird hunt. I don't deer hunt Kansas but the ranch I use a great deal is overrun with deer even with all the permits that are available, and on his ranch, more needs to be done. some winters there are over 600 turkey on the place, they eat something and it is mostly his crops, they love his ranch. one of course is the fish and game needs to try and keep the hunter's happy but they are also under a lot of pressure to keep the farmer's happy, the balance is nearly impossible. both of these specie consume a lot of food, something that is not much of a problem with either quail or most game birds. science is wonderful but politics is stronger, maybe dumber, but stronger. maybe fish and game dept. around the country should look for stronger leaders. I think the NRA stated awhile back that nearly 50% of our wildlife people don't or haven't hunted or fished. that's a bad trend
cheers
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
We don't have that problem here at all. Deer numbers are drastically down and turkey numbers are not much better. We never saw one Jake the entire turkey season if that tells you anything about the turkey hatch. And it won't be any better next year.
mustistuff
Banned
I did see quite a few jakes this spring season and it seemed that deer were everywhere. while I did see fewer turkey this year it was in part likely cause of the streams and ponds being dry rather than the hatch, the rancher when questioned on the hatch thought he had seen as many babies as usual last summer. dunno! anyway about what part of west Kansas are you roaming
cheers
If it's a wintering place for deer does the rancher allow hunting? If he doesn't allow deer hunting or charges for it no one is going to do any population control.
Most will not pay money to shoot does or an inferior buck.
Most will not pay money to shoot does or an inferior buck.