I agree with you Mustistuff. with out grassy meadows mixed with wildflowers and a grass understory in the forest blue grouse don't have anywhere to raise chicks. Like most upland bird chicks grouse eat lots of hoppers which thrive in these areas.
Reducing The Limit for Pheasants
- Thread starter Campbell76
- Start date
I agree with you Mustistuff. with out grassy meadows mixed with wildflowers and a grass understory in the forest blue grouse don't have anywhere to raise chicks. Like most upland bird chicks grouse eat lots of hoppers which thrive in these areas.
Almost all wild chukars in the U.S. are grazing on cheat grasses....no cheat grass, fewer and fewer chukars. Looks grass depended to me. Now Sage Grouse will clip alfalfa, but sage berries and fresh leaves are absolute. There are a lot of times where weed seeds,and grass seeds sustain pheasants and quail with out any crops at all.
RK Special K
New member
For sure, sharptails use grass, but generally a shorter type "prairie grass".
I can't say much about blue grouse except to say that I'm quite sure that they are not "open grassland dependent", but c'mon, ruffed grouse? They are a forest bird. I will go so far as to say that they have a disdain for open grasslands. But if you are trying to say that you saw a few blades of grass in the thickets of ruffed grouse habitat, ok, I'm wrong. They absolutely love it! Can't live without it!
Ruffed grouse are at one end of the upland bird habitat spectrum and pheasants are at the other end. "Worlds apart".
I can't say much about blue grouse except to say that I'm quite sure that they are not "open grassland dependent", but c'mon, ruffed grouse? They are a forest bird. I will go so far as to say that they have a disdain for open grasslands. But if you are trying to say that you saw a few blades of grass in the thickets of ruffed grouse habitat, ok, I'm wrong. They absolutely love it! Can't live without it!
Ruffed grouse are at one end of the upland bird habitat spectrum and pheasants are at the other end. "Worlds apart".
RK Special K
New member
I'll clear up what my point is:
I'm talking what is needed in the OVERWHELMING landscape theme of a particular upland bird.
For example:
Pheasants CAN NOT exist in the dense forests of the UP of Michigan, despite the occasional "grassy meadow" interspersed in.
Chukars will NEVER make it in the grassy/cropland of South Dakota. Nor would they EVER survive in the UP of Michigan.
Ruffed Grouse WILL NEVER make it on the prairie of Nebraska despite a few trees.
Some birds can, however, overlap a bit:
Pheasants and sharptails: 10-25% overlap
Pheasants and huns: 5-15% overlap
In Idaho, I have flushed chukar from a rocky cliff, then walked 300 yards from that to a grassy plateau and flushed huns, then, within a mile or so, flushed a rooster from a creek bottom. That's the "overlap" I'm referring to. For sure, each flushing from their little niche, but I'm still on the same walk.
I have NEVER flushed a sharptail from waist/chest high CRP. But, walking from this CRP 200 yards down a 2-track, cross a fence and into a cut sunflower field, I'll flush sharpies. The extreme of overlap is one experience we had flushing huns, sharpies, and roosters from thickets in a mile long draw in ND.
Minnesota does have some "overlap" with ruffed grouse and sharptails but it is extremely compartmentalized. Ruffed grouse in the woods, sharpies in the relatively open meadow-type fields.
Huns flourish in the vast wheat growing areas of Saskatchewan. Almost NO CRP-type grass but some prairie grass. As a result, this is how the numbers stack up:
Huns: 80%
Sharptails: 19%
Pheasants: <1%
The northern part of the Nebraska panhandle has one the best "overlap" ratios I've seen. I guess about a 50-50 mix of pheasants and sharptails.
I'm talking what is needed in the OVERWHELMING landscape theme of a particular upland bird.
For example:
Pheasants CAN NOT exist in the dense forests of the UP of Michigan, despite the occasional "grassy meadow" interspersed in.
Chukars will NEVER make it in the grassy/cropland of South Dakota. Nor would they EVER survive in the UP of Michigan.
Ruffed Grouse WILL NEVER make it on the prairie of Nebraska despite a few trees.
Some birds can, however, overlap a bit:
Pheasants and sharptails: 10-25% overlap
Pheasants and huns: 5-15% overlap
In Idaho, I have flushed chukar from a rocky cliff, then walked 300 yards from that to a grassy plateau and flushed huns, then, within a mile or so, flushed a rooster from a creek bottom. That's the "overlap" I'm referring to. For sure, each flushing from their little niche, but I'm still on the same walk.
I have NEVER flushed a sharptail from waist/chest high CRP. But, walking from this CRP 200 yards down a 2-track, cross a fence and into a cut sunflower field, I'll flush sharpies. The extreme of overlap is one experience we had flushing huns, sharpies, and roosters from thickets in a mile long draw in ND.
Minnesota does have some "overlap" with ruffed grouse and sharptails but it is extremely compartmentalized. Ruffed grouse in the woods, sharpies in the relatively open meadow-type fields.
Huns flourish in the vast wheat growing areas of Saskatchewan. Almost NO CRP-type grass but some prairie grass. As a result, this is how the numbers stack up:
Huns: 80%
Sharptails: 19%
Pheasants: <1%
The northern part of the Nebraska panhandle has one the best "overlap" ratios I've seen. I guess about a 50-50 mix of pheasants and sharptails.
mustistuff
Banned
grass
most ruffs do utilize grass, clover etc. and a great deal, most ruffs are not a true forest bird as there is nothing there usually for them to eat. they are a fringe bird, clear cut bird and why is that, it in most part cause of grass etc. blues will spend their winters in trees and eat almost nothing but buds, however most of the year they are on the ground with grass and nearly all of their babies are raised in grass
cheers
most ruffs do utilize grass, clover etc. and a great deal, most ruffs are not a true forest bird as there is nothing there usually for them to eat. they are a fringe bird, clear cut bird and why is that, it in most part cause of grass etc. blues will spend their winters in trees and eat almost nothing but buds, however most of the year they are on the ground with grass and nearly all of their babies are raised in grass
cheers
RK Special K
New member
Ruffs have everything they need in the forest environment. From leaves to buds, berries - to aspen buds in the winter. They are definitely a TRUE forest bird - yes, they like "hanging out" near the fringes but they DO NOT hang out in grass NEXT TO the fringe. They may stray out a bit to pick up some form of food by the edge but this is out of their "comfort zone". Much rather stay under the canopy of the forest. From cradle to grave, they are beholden to forest cover. Clearcuts? - yes, they use them AFTER they are tall enough to raise a brood - 5-8 feet? If it was clear cut in February, they won't use it in April to raise a brood - NO WAY.
Does the grass produce some insects that "wander" into the woods for the hen to use as brood feed? Open to that debate but the forest floor produces lots of bugs too.
Does the grass produce some insects that "wander" into the woods for the hen to use as brood feed? Open to that debate but the forest floor produces lots of bugs too.
RK Special K
New member
The importance of clearcuts to grouse and grouse hunting:
1. In 2-4 years they produce excellent, DENSE, brood rearing habitat. I don't know about blues but ruffs would NEVER use grass to raise a brood.
2. The edges created produce more abundant food - that's why they "hang out" there. But for sure, they are usually on the INSIDE of this edge and VERY reluctantly on the outside to quick grab some easy food.
3. Re-generates a THICK, DENSE, forest environment. Wide open forest floors are the scull and crossbones of ruffed grouse.
4. Makes for easier hunting as you use the open side as a "blocker". Especially when danger is approaching, they hate the open side.
When I flush a ruffed grouse into the open they "beat it" to the thickest forest cover they can find. It's like when they are flying over open ground they are saying "Yuk! Who would ever want to live out there?
1. In 2-4 years they produce excellent, DENSE, brood rearing habitat. I don't know about blues but ruffs would NEVER use grass to raise a brood.
2. The edges created produce more abundant food - that's why they "hang out" there. But for sure, they are usually on the INSIDE of this edge and VERY reluctantly on the outside to quick grab some easy food.
3. Re-generates a THICK, DENSE, forest environment. Wide open forest floors are the scull and crossbones of ruffed grouse.
4. Makes for easier hunting as you use the open side as a "blocker". Especially when danger is approaching, they hate the open side.
When I flush a ruffed grouse into the open they "beat it" to the thickest forest cover they can find. It's like when they are flying over open ground they are saying "Yuk! Who would ever want to live out there?
mustistuff
Banned
going around
what a pheasant forum. anyway, for my first 15 years of hunting it was ruffs and I could walk from my house to shoot at them. I lived in Vermont. nearly all the birds I ever saw and it was hundreds were in or near woods but never heavily forested woods. they were most always as close to openings as they were trees and there was grass type vegetation there and many many birds I shot were full of grass or stuff like clover. I only ever saw I believe 4 broods of chicks, all while I was fishing brookies and all, all were in grass but very near trees. I have had as many grouse fly across opening as I have through heavy trees and never met one that didn't want to fly someplace really really fast. by the way, what happens to clear cuts besides providing a source of worms for woodcock, the openings are filled up with grass, and that is why the birds can be found there, both for food and cover. just from my experience and I have a lot of it as when I was growing up the birds were just about everywhere
cheers
what a pheasant forum. anyway, for my first 15 years of hunting it was ruffs and I could walk from my house to shoot at them. I lived in Vermont. nearly all the birds I ever saw and it was hundreds were in or near woods but never heavily forested woods. they were most always as close to openings as they were trees and there was grass type vegetation there and many many birds I shot were full of grass or stuff like clover. I only ever saw I believe 4 broods of chicks, all while I was fishing brookies and all, all were in grass but very near trees. I have had as many grouse fly across opening as I have through heavy trees and never met one that didn't want to fly someplace really really fast. by the way, what happens to clear cuts besides providing a source of worms for woodcock, the openings are filled up with grass, and that is why the birds can be found there, both for food and cover. just from my experience and I have a lot of it as when I was growing up the birds were just about everywhere
cheers
I have never hunted Ruffed grouse but living in Colorado my entire life I have been fortunate enough to hunt a lot of blues. From what I have read about Ruffed grouse and experienced with Blue grouse they seem to hang out in very similar cover. I would assume ruffs like the new vegetated clear cuts in a forest for the same reason blue grouse like them too. The younger trees and shrubs provide good overhead protection from predators while they can still eat insects which thrive in areas like this because there is grass.
In Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan, they seed the timber trails with clover... why? because grouse like to eat it, and the open spots in the forest. These are transitional birds, need and require diversity of vegetation. Look up the ruffed grouse dietary requirements, sure there are popular siskins, berries of all kinds, clover, even corn!
