Reducing Recoil

nbd13

nbd13

New member
Hey guys,

Well some of you may remember I am new to the hunting scene. I finally got out and shot some clays on thursday night. I did 2 rounds, total 50 targets and needless to say....I had a bruise on my shoulder that night.

I am shooting a remington 870 express. The recoil pad on it was VERY hard and old, so I picked up a new remington supercell recoil pad and installed that on the gun. It's my father-in-laws and he's letting me borrow it until I decided what gun I want to get. I know these guns are notoriously bad for kicking, but is there anything else I can do?

I have a Browning vest and they have a pocket in the shoulder for their Reactar Pad to reduce recoil....anyone try this?

I felt like I was hesitating towards the end of the 2nd round because my shoulder was killing. I have had 2 shoulder surgeries on my right shoulder and am worried about damaging it. I hit about 60% of the targets....not great, but this was only my 2nd time shooting with no instructions, so is this decent? I am going to try to go once a week.

I'm going hunting for the first time next week and want to make sure I am ready.

Thanks,

Nick
 
i put one of them remington supercell recoil pads on my 870 also once i found out how much deer slugs kick like a mule and it helped a great deal
 
You may want to look at a smaller gauge gun. A 20 or even possibly a 28. The 28 is harder to find and also harder to kill pheasants with, but a lot less kick. I shoot an 870 express as well and have gotten the bruise before. Unlike you, I kept shooting. I don't think it matter how much you shoot it, it will bruise shooting that many shells consistently through that. You may also want to look at some of the Benelli auto's or the Winchester SX3. I've shot a couple Benelli autos and the SX3 and neither of them kick as bad as an 870. I just happen to like a pump action more than break or autos.
 
Plus 1 on the auto. I've been shooting a 20 gauge auto for some time now and I don't notice recoil at all. Technique has alot to do with recoil felt as well but if you're afraid to hurt your shoulder, a valid concern in your case, then you could be flinching which won't help your technique or your aim.

Try a 20 gauge auto. It's supposed to be fun. If it's not you might not keep at it.
 
Thanks everyone.

Would a 20 g. still be sufficient in case I wanted to duck hunt in the future?

Nick
 
Nothing wrong with wanting the perfect gun that does everything but there isn't one. If you go that route see that it will handle 3" shells and the barrel is fitted for multi-chokes instead of fixed a choke. Many of the 20ga autos have an aluminum receiver designed to lessen weight. These generally won't take the 3" magnum loads you would want for ducks.

good luck-
 
nbd13 said:
Hey guys,

I had a bruise on my shoulder that night.
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Where exactly are you getting bruised? If you are getting bruised on the upper bicep it may just be that your not getting the butt all the way into the shoulder pocket. That can sometimes be the case, especially on a gun that has a length of pull that is too long.
 
birdshooter said:
Where exactly are you getting bruised? If you are getting bruised on the upper bicep it may just be that your not getting the butt all the way into the shoulder pocket. That can sometimes be the case, especially on a gun that has a length of pull that is too long.
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Same thing I was thinking. I've bruised before, but it was usually from not getting the gun mounted right in the pocket.

I've also seen new shooters that weren't 'loose'. They'd stand all rigid like they were trying to aim, rather than flex their bodies and point the shotgun. At the recoil they'd have to take the brunt of the kick, rather than rolling with it.

I can't say enough good things about my Beretta 391. I bought it 7 years ago (replaced an 870 Express). It doesn't kick near as bad.
 
Hey guys,

I got bruised in 2 locations; one on my upper bicep like you guys are talking about and then one on my upper pectoralis muscle.

I tried to make sure I had the gun snugged up into my shoulder because I knew the recoil wouldn't be as bad then.

So when you guys say shoulder pocket, you mean the space between the pec. muscle and the shoulder?

I'm not sure what you mean by flex and shoot? Sorry I am new to this, but don't you have to aim then shoot? I thought you were supposed follow through with the shot?

Also what is "length of pull"? I have no idea what that is.

So, what should I do to correct my technique then?

Thanks for everything!

Nick
 
nbd13 said:
So when you guys say shoulder pocket, you mean the space between the pec. muscle and the shoulder?

I'm not sure what you mean by flex and shoot? Sorry I am new to this, but don't you have to aim then shoot? I thought you were supposed follow through with the shot?

Also what is "length of pull"? I have no idea what that is.

So, what should I do to correct my technique then?

Thanks for everything!

Nick
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Don't take my words too literally, so hard to explain through words, would be easy to show you on the range.

What I call the pocket where the recoil pad should go (without getting into biology terms that I'm not sure of), is between the big ball of muscle on your shoulder (above bicep) and the collar bone. When in shooting position this forms a little divet that the butt goes in.

As far as being rigid/flexing with the shot/aiming/follow through-

If you're right handed and shooting a dead straight away going bird, stand with your feet about shoulder width apart, but the left leg slightly ahead of the right, knees bent, and left side of body slightly ahead of the rightside, almost shooting across your body slightly. What I meant by being rigid, I've seen a lot of first time shooters (at Management meetings my company puts on once a year) that stand and look like they're shooting a rifle. Their right leg is in front of the left, their knees are locked straight, their body is tight, etc. There is no way they can possibly track the bird. To me anyways, you have to be fluid, flex, bend at the knees and waist, let your torso point to the bird, rather than your arms. When I'm shooting trap or skeet at a range, I keep the gun low until called for, then as my body adjusts to the flight of the birds I mount the gun, and almost as soon as the butt hits my shoulder I'm pulling the trigger. Almost like my body is doing the aiming. I never remember looking down the barrel and aiming, seeing the bead on the barrel, etc. Its all one fluid motion.

Again, this would be a lot easier to demonstrate than it is to type and get the meaning across the way I want. I'm sure there are a lot better and experienced shooters on here as well that will offer some pointers. If you asked around at your local sporting clays or skeet range I'm sure somebody would offer a lot of good advice as well. By the way, you said you're shooting 60%, that doesn't sound too bad to me.

You should never have a bruise on your bicep, thats a sure sign you're not getting mounted right.
 
nbd13, what kind of loads were you shooting at the clays? If you are shooting lighter trap or target loads you really shouldn't be experiencing that much recoil. A smaller gauge gun will not necessarily mean less recoil. There are a lot of factors that are involved with recoil. Weight of the gun, fit of the gun, the loads you are shooting, etc. Some 20 gauges that are light will get worse than most 12's. A good gas operated auto will generally have less recoil. If I was you I would try shooting some different shotguns to see if you continue to have the same issues with recoil.
 
nbd13 said:
Also what is "length of pull"? I have no idea what that is.
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Length of pull is the measurement from the trigger to the end of the butt stock, usually measured at the center of the butt. Depending on your build (arm length, neck length etc..) some will need a shorter LOP and some a longer LOP. Most factory guns are generally fit for the average person. That is if your 5'9" and weight appox 170 lbs with average length arms and neck. Most of the time unless the LOP is unusually long for an individual, it shouldn't be much of a problem.

You could get it ported
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Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on this modification. I have guns that are ported and non-ported. The only difference I notice is the ported guns are LOUDER :eek:

I would practice my gun mounting at home. Put on the jacket or whatever that you are going to hunt in and practice mounting the gun with the focus of trying to get it into the shoulder pocket as was discussed above. The more you practice your gun mount the more "muscle memory" will take over and the more consistent you will be. From what you have described it sure seems your just not getting a consistent mount and it catches you in the bicep every now and then.

There is one other measurement that could be causing the problem. I'll try to explain it as best I can.

"Pitch" is measured by placing the gun butt down flat on the ground while sliding the gun up a against a wall/door. The distance from the wall to the end of the muzzle is called "Pitch". How much pitch is needed? We'll it can vary from one person to another depending on their build. Again most guns are set with the average build in mind. Proper pitch is determined when the gun is mounted and the butt is making full contact with the shoulder from top to bottom. If this is so, than the pitch measurement is pretty close for the individual. However, if the top part of the butt (heel) is not resting against the shoulder than it is likely that the bottom (toe) is angled into the shoulder and will dig into your shoulder during recoil. This would be a case where there is too much downward pitch in the gun. The opposite could be true as well and the heel could be the culprit thus the gun having NOT ENOUGH downward pitch.

While the pitch could be part of the problem, my first guess without seeing you mount the gun is that the inconsistency of your gun mount is more than likely the culprit.
 
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Proper gun fit would be #1 as Birdshooter was explaining some of the aspects of proper fit. The pitch Birdshooter was explaining, can be played with. By loosening the screws on the recoil pad and adding a temporary shim to alter your guns fit. Sometimes adding only on one side(altering pitch) or in both(adjusting length of pull). I have used a match book or other type things. Put it between the pad and the stock and snug down the pad screws again. This will alter your point of aim also. You should see no rib, just the bead when it is properly fitted in both length of pull and pitch. If your gun has too long of length of pull from the start. None of this is going to help you. The gun stock would need to be cut to it's proper length of pull first.

If your not able to mount the gun in the exact same place each and every time. You will find yourself getting smacked, be it in the cheek, where your arm meets your shoulder, not fully on to the shoulder, only the upper half of the butt of the gun into your shoulder, Etc.

Also, believe it or not..you don't need more then a 11/4oz load for pheasants and it don't need to be some waterfowl load from the past. I hear talk about big loads for far flushing birds. Most people aren't proficient enough with a gun to take those lengthy shots. I find when using steel shot. I then need the waterfowl type load to get the speed needed to get the killing power of the much lighter steel BB's to have the proper pellet energy. They do have heavy recoil but only when target shooting for me. In the heat of the hunt...the recoil is noticed much less.

A gas auto is going to be your most recoil friendly. I would lean towards a Beretta 391 or the Browning Maxus. The Benelli is recoil operated and will direct more recoil to the shooter.

Beretta even offers a recoil reducing model of the 391 that kicks even less. Just depends on how bad recoil bothers you and what your willing to spend to lessen it.

The 870 is hard kicking gun, being a pump. IMO, the Remington stock design is one of the worst for directing recoil to the shooter. That and it being a pump..it offers nothing in the way of bleeding off any of the recoil by operating a action of any kind. Not a great gun to start out on. The worst thing one can do is, start a kid out on a hard kicking cheap gun. Same goes for a adult. Find another gun to shoot if you can, preferably a gas auto. You will be amazed at the difference.

Onpoint
 
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Recoil affects every shooter, some to the point of ability to stay on target due to anticipation anxiety. While serving in Vietnam as an ordinance officer Charles Askins, recounted the story of finding that the U.S. had armed the small framed and light muscled vietnamese regular troops with Model 12 riot guns, loaded with 23/4 mag. buckshot and slugs. Reasoning was that training was limited, and the margin of error was greater with that combination. After observation in the field, he immediately scrapped the idea. The vietnamese as one can imagine were more terrified of the model 12 and the horrific recoil, than the enemy, they would fire, once drop the gun and run. I was reminded of this with my very small 13 year old identical twin girls. Adding to the research, since they are identical you would assume that both would be affected similarly, wrong, I have one who would launch a shoulder mounted howitzer, accurately, and repeatedly, and the other complains about recoil in certain guns from high velocity 20ga. ammo. My conclusion is that recoil is as personal as we are all different in so many other ways. I will say that I think when it comes to recoil, for all of us, conscious or not, less is better. Trade off comes with lugging a nine pound gun through the uplands! But that's another thread!
 
Wow, thanks for all the info. Let's see if I can respond and hit all the points.

- I was using lighter trap loads, not exactly sure, the gun club was selling them. They were 2 3/4", not sure on the load though.

- I am 6' 2" and weigh about 165 lbs., so tall and lanky. The gun in completely stock, besides the new recoil pad I put on it.

When I took my hunter safety class they let us shoot a bunch of different shotguns, from 28 ga. to 12 ga., I shot the 12 ga. they had there about 10 times and never felt the recoil like I feel with the 870 express.

Not sure if it means anything or if it helps diagnose the problem, but on my misses they seemed to always be low, when I raised it a tad I blasted the targets.

I will practice in the house mounting the gun and try to make sure I have it mounted correctly. I did have a bruise on my upper biceps, so I must have not been mounting it right every time.

The problem is I can't really alter this gun permanently because it is my father-in-laws. I was hoping the new recoil pad would help a little.

I do notice that sometimes I see the rib when I mount it and not just the bead....so maybe something is off here. Also, I can tell I do not mount it consistently, I messed around a little mounting it. Do you guys mount it by putting into your shoulder then bringing your check down to the gun? Or do you bring it up to your check naturally and let it fall into the shoulder area?

I shot right handed and make sure to keep my left foot a little ahead of the right and more foot on my left leg than my right. With my body closed a little. Does this seem right?

It seems like the combo of the 870 kicking hard and me being inconsistent with mounting it is causing the bruising. I will practice every day mounting it until Friday when I go hunting and hopefully I can become more consistent.

Also, what color is everyone's bead? Mine is black and I'm having a hard time picking it up....maybe thinking about painting it orange?

Thanks again the info in this thread has been really helpful.

Nick
 
nbd13 said:
Not sure if it means anything or if it helps diagnose the problem, but on my misses they seemed to always be low, when I raised it a tad I blasted the targets.
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Could be the gun's stock is too low for you. At least what you have described would indicate so. When you say you raised it a tad, what was the sight picture? Rib on the bottom of the target or partially covering it up?

I will practice in the house mounting the gun and try to make sure I have it mounted correctly. I did have a bruise on my upper biceps, so I must have not been mounting it right every time.
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Good idea, practice makes perfect.

The problem is I can't really alter this gun permanently because it is my father-in-laws. I was hoping the new recoil pad would help a little.
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Time to start saving for one of your own. :)

Do you guys mount it by putting into your shoulder then bringing your check down to the gun? Or do you bring it up to your check naturally and let it fall into the shoulder area?
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The correct way is to mount the gun to your cheek while bringing the butt into the shoulder pocket (one motion). Both hands should be working in unison. If one puts the gun into the shoulder first then drops the head down, now your talking 2 moves, less efficient.

Also, what color is everyone's bead? Mine is black and I'm having a hard time picking it up....maybe thinking about painting it orange?
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Too be honest it should not matter what color the bead is as your focus should not be on the bead, but rather the target itself. If the gun is mounted correctly to your face and it reasonably fits you, it will be shooting where your looking. This is not rifle shooting and you can't rifle targets with a shotgun. The barrel will go where your eyes are looking, that is the best way I can put it.

Here is an example: You have a Pheasant that is flying at 90 degrees to you from left to right. Once the gun is mounted your focus should be on his head or slightly in front. If you look at the whole bird or the tail feathers you will most likely shoot behind.

Hope this helps.
 
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nbd13 said:
Wow, thanks for all the info. Let's see if I can respond and hit all the points.

- I was using lighter trap loads, not exactly sure, the gun club was selling them. They were 2 3/4", not sure on the load though.

- I am 6' 2" and weigh about 165 lbs., so tall and lanky. The gun in completely stock, besides the new recoil pad I put on it.

When I took my hunter safety class they let us shoot a bunch of different shotguns, from 28 ga. to 12 ga., I shot the 12 ga. they had there about 10 times and never felt the recoil like I feel with the 870 express.

Not sure if it means anything or if it helps diagnose the problem, but on my misses they seemed to always be low, when I raised it a tad I blasted the targets.

I will practice in the house mounting the gun and try to make sure I have it mounted correctly. I did have a bruise on my upper biceps, so I must have not been mounting it right every time.

The problem is I can't really alter this gun permanently because it is my father-in-laws. I was hoping the new recoil pad would help a little.

I do notice that sometimes I see the rib when I mount it and not just the bead....so maybe something is off here. Also, I can tell I do not mount it consistently, I messed around a little mounting it. Do you guys mount it by putting into your shoulder then bringing your check down to the gun? Or do you bring it up to your check naturally and let it fall into the shoulder area?

I shot right handed and make sure to keep my left foot a little ahead of the right and more foot on my left leg than my right. With my body closed a little. Does this seem right?

It seems like the combo of the 870 kicking hard and me being inconsistent with mounting it is causing the bruising. I will practice every day mounting it until Friday when I go hunting and hopefully I can become more consistent.

Also, what color is everyone's bead? Mine is black and I'm having a hard time picking it up....maybe thinking about painting it orange?

Thanks again the info in this thread has been really helpful.

Nick
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I think every one has covered the mechanics as far as shouldering and shooting a gun. The best advice I will add is to look at picking up a auto loader that fits you. The automatic will take some of the kick out for you.

The next thing is to get your own gun that fits you. Go down to the gun shops and spend some time looking at guns and pulling them up. Each one will be a little differant as far as feel and weight. you will know when it's right it will feel natural when you shoulder it. My guess price might be a facture so go some where that carries a lot of used guns. There are a lot of guys out there that will purchase a gun and not like it and trade it in for something else. A gun will last you a life time if taken care of. Welcome to the party good luck and shoot straight.:cheers:
 
Thanks again guys.

When I say I raised the gun a little, it was the rib was covering it just a touch. Not a lot just a tiny bit.

I will start looking around at used guns and try to get on the fits me.

In the meantime I will just keep practing with what I have and I will let you guys know how we do on Friday.

Thanks again for all the help everyone,

Nick
 
nbd13 said:
Thanks again guys.

When I say I raised the gun a little, it was the rib was covering it just a touch. Not a lot just a tiny bit.

I will start looking around at used guns and try to get on the fits me.

In the meantime I will just keep practing with what I have and I will let you guys know how we do on Friday.

Thanks again for all the help everyone,

Nick
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Go get fitted by a "Shotgun" gunsmith you well save time and money. My guess is your neck is to long for a stock gun. But were all guessing only fitting well tell.
 
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