Public land

2012 was a tough year for cover-between the drought and the haying and grazing a lot of cover was gone for the average Joe to hunt.

I started hunting SDak in the early 90s during the heyday of CRP and walk-ins. I can tell you that even back then some walk-ins were grazed to nubbins and not worth hunting for upland birds-maybe more suited for other game. Thats why if you can do it it pays to scout ahead.

My concerns around CRP and the haying and grazing on it-it seems like it happens almost annually and you see a lot of old hay rotting away. I do understand that you never know what the winter is going to bring for weather and how much more hay you'll need. That said it appears to me that its an abused practice based on the knee jerk reaction to ask for it to be opened and lots of hay sitting around.

HayMaker perhaps you can help us understand how it works and helps you and us out.

I would rather see any ag subsidies go to the small producers and no one else. We continue to pay for the wrong reasons and it ultimately is not sustainable and destroys the land and water. How is that good for us?

Dan
 
I'd suggest that they should color code the public lands map they put out every year to show land that is suitable pheasant habitat. It should not be the hunter's responsibility to drive around to find the areas that could hold birds. And IMO to provide money to farmers to allow public access to grazed down to the nubs pasture is a misuse of those funds.

Again, I'm not blaming farmers, it's the way the state manages this program that needs to change.
 
I sure as heck would not want to pay for the state government to do the work of identifying places where you might find pheasants. I think that is your job, not the government!!
 
They go out and put up the signs and look over the property, so no extra money would be spent to identify habitat.

So it's "my job" to drive around, wasting gas, to find the right habitat when the state publishes a guide?
 
0fer2 said:
2012 was a tough year for cover-between the drought and the haying and grazing a lot of cover was gone for the average Joe to hunt.

I started hunting SDak in the early 90s during the heyday of CRP and walk-ins. I can tell you that even back then some walk-ins were grazed to nubbins and not worth hunting for upland birds-maybe more suited for other game. Thats why if you can do it it pays to scout ahead.

My concerns around CRP and the haying and grazing on it-it seems like it happens almost annually and you see a lot of old hay rotting away. I do understand that you never know what the winter is going to bring for weather and how much more hay you'll need. That said it appears to me that its an abused practice based on the knee jerk reaction to ask for it to be opened and lots of hay sitting around.

HayMaker perhaps you can help us understand how it works and helps you and us out.

I would rather see any ag subsidies go to the small producers and no one else. We continue to pay for the wrong reasons and it ultimately is not sustainable and destroys the land and water. How is that good for us?

Dan
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I want them to do away with USDA all together. Something you guys should think about though, the payments are the only control the govt. has over what the "big farmers" do with their ground. If they don't comply with USDA regs, they lose their payment. Take that away and then watch how fast the wetlands disappear.
 
Wirehairs said:
Just an FYI on some lands in SD open to public hunting. They are owned by the school district which in turns rent the out to farmers and ranchers for haying and grazing. Wildlife and hunting is not the purpose of these public lands.
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Ya school districts that are near broke, talk of cutting busing, cutting teachers, cutting pay and benefits, yet they own plots of land all over the place where one room school house were 70-100 years ago. Makes perfect sense....
 
AR-phez said:
They go out and put up the signs and look over the property, so no extra money would be spent to identify habitat.

So it's "my job" to drive around, wasting gas, to find the right habitat when the state publishes a guide?
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Do you want them to hold the gun and retreive the birds too? If you want that treatment you might as well go to a guided hunt.
 
0fer2 said:
2012 was a tough year for cover-between the drought and the haying and grazing a lot of cover was gone for the average Joe to hunt.

I started hunting SDak in the early 90s during the heyday of CRP and walk-ins. I can tell you that even back then some walk-ins were grazed to nubbins and not worth hunting for upland birds-maybe more suited for other game. Thats why if you can do it it pays to scout ahead.

My concerns around CRP and the haying and grazing on it-it seems like it happens almost annually and you see a lot of old hay rotting away. I do understand that you never know what the winter is going to bring for weather and how much more hay you'll need. That said it appears to me that its an abused practice based on the knee jerk reaction to ask for it to be opened and lots of hay sitting around.

HayMaker perhaps you can help us understand how it works and helps you and us out.

I would rather see any ag subsidies go to the small producers and no one else. We continue to pay for the wrong reasons and it ultimately is not sustainable and destroys the land and water. How is that good for us?

Dan
Click to expand...

You do ask good questions. Depending on the CRP contract you do managed haying and grazing, either cut a third every third year or cut the whole thing once out of three years. There are some acres that you can't do managed haying or grazing. Other CRP contracts you can't do haying and grazing on except last year we could do half because of the drought. For me the fact that I can have an emergency hay reserve is one of the reasons that I put land in CRP. If you take that away I won't put land in CRP unless the price gets raised. Over the life of the contract CRP does not compete. I have some coming out that is paying $45 an acre, that doesn't work. But because I can take some revenue from hunting and sometimes get some additional hay, I can make CRP part of the farm. If the government generosity keeps a cattle guy in business through the dry years he isn't breaking it up or selling it to a ditch to ditch farmer. So I guess it is good for you that it is producing game most years and the years that it does get cut it is still producing game even if it is cut by the time hunting season gets here. I hope that made some sense.
 
AR-PHEZ wear they heck have you been hunting??? yes its 100% "your job" to drive around & waste gas to find quality public land habitat to hunt... the public land atlas guide is not a personal guide to wear pheasants live its a guide to show people wear public hunting land options are located in the state period... its your job to do your homework & locate a peace of land in good pheasant region to hunt... not just pick a spot on the map & wish & hope...

the SD game & fish has a on-line interactive public land atlas wear you can get aireal pics of the public lands enrolled in the atlas each season & its bounderys are outlined do plenty of scouting from home pick out a handful of areas to try & have back ups well B4 you get in the truck & drive all the way to SD thats what i do... things can change "be it emergency haying" etc. but you still get a idea of what areas are better then another & wear u want to hunt once you get there...

KS is about the only state i have ever seen with a public hunting atlas that listed each game animal that may be found on each WALK IN they have enrolled... its really a crock of B/S as some areas HOLD MORE OF A CERTIN GAME then others & some are better deer then pheasant spots & better turkey then bob white quail spots ETC.

its always going to be hit or miss on them areas just cuz it says there pheasants on the land dose not mean squat thats why its called hunting my friend!!!

if you want a for sure thing hunt & or somebody to hold your hand & or put you on pheasants with 100% certainty best bet is to go the PAY TO PLAY route public land hunting is hit or miss at best...

i was out on some SD public & school lands this spring turkey hunting & as i said B4 the SD pheasant population in the region did not impress me at all i seen as many or more pheasants/quail in NEBRASKA but the habitat was still there on that public & school land & a few pheasants were still there as was deer speed goats prairie grouse & a few ducks... not all the SD public & school land is a waste...
 
i talked to a few SD game wardens & wild game biologist B4 i went to SD & a few of the WIAs i was looking at hunting had storys on why they were enrolled like they had a DEER/TURKEY over population prob or the land owner was tired of catching tress passers ETC. but they said all these WIAs have different reasons for being enrolled & its our job to try & rule out those that dont hold the game we want to hunt... he said the SD game & fish dose not want to PAY for lands with no hunting oppertuneitys so they dont want to pay for grazed lands...

but like said B4 i dont think the land owners should get payed by the SD game & fish if they are going to remove all quality habitat each yr to just get payed more on top of what the SD game & fish already pays them i dont like that stuff at all...
 
small munsterlander owner said:
AR-PHEZ wear they heck have you been hunting??? yes its 100% "your job" to drive around & waste gas to find quality public land habitat to hunt... the public land atlas guide is not a personal guide to wear pheasants live its a guide to show people wear public hunting land options are located in the state period... its your job to do your homework & locate a peace of land in good pheasant region to hunt... not just pick a spot on the map & wish & hope...

the SD game & fish has a on-line interactive public land atlas wear you can get aireal pics of the public lands enrolled in the atlas each season & its bounderys are outlined do plenty of scouting from home pick out a handful of areas to try & have back ups well B4 you get in the truck & drive all the way to SD thats what i do... things can change "be it emergency haying" etc. but you still get a idea of what areas are better then another & wear u want to hunt once you get there...

KS is about the only state i have ever seen with a public hunting atlas that listed each game animal that may be found on each WALK IN they have enrolled... its really a crock of B/S as some areas HOLD MORE OF A CERTIN GAME then others & some are better deer then pheasant spots & better turkey then bob white quail spots ETC.

its always going to be hit or miss on them areas just cuz it says there pheasants on the land dose not mean squat thats why its called hunting my friend!!!

if you want a for sure thing hunt & or somebody to hold your hand & or put you on pheasants with 100% certainty best bet is to go the PAY TO PLAY route public land hunting is hit or miss at best...

i was out on some SD public & school lands this spring turkey hunting & as i said B4 the SD pheasant population in the region did not impress me at all i seen as many or more pheasants/quail in NEBRASKA but the habitat was still there on that public & school land & a few pheasants were still there as was deer speed goats prairie grouse & a few ducks... not all the SD public & school land is a waste...
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I did not ask for "hand holding" and I did not say all SD land is a "waste". And I did not ask for a "sure thing". Sheesh...

I'm asking for a reference on an already published map as to what game that land might be managed for, nothing more. I guess that's too complicated an idea for people to comprehend.
 
keep it friendly guys...most of us know that scouting is required, that is a not always the case with newbies.....simple comments and avoiding a lecture will keep the site friendly and viable....just sayin'
 
hunter94 said:
keep it friendly guys...most of us know that scouting is required, that is a not always the case with newbies.....simple comments and avoiding a lecture will keep the site friendly and viable....just sayin'
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Well put. Must be that time of the year that folks get a little stir crazy...there's a similar thread on the gun board too.
 
519vx said:
Well put. Must be that time of the year that folks get a little stir crazy...there's a similar thread on the gun board too.
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This is about the time of the year everybody get's a little testy. I think it would be impossible to code which areas would be good to hunt in the fall. Cover may be great in spring when book is in publishing, and go to crap in september because of weather. Kansas does have some description, but it is not that helpful if you know anything about the state. My suggestion would be figure out what areas traditionally hold the game you are after and go from there.
 
BTW I do understand the value of scouting, and will do some myself. I don't have a problem with rational arguments about why giving some description of habitat available on mapped WIHA might be a bad idea such as carptom1 has made above.

But if the best you can do is make some wise assed personal remark, fine, send me a PM and we'll go from there. But if you're capable of coming up with reasons why some sort of habitat description on mapped WIHA is a bad idea, great, let's hear them.
 
A lot of the Fall hunts planning should be done during the off season, like right now. I feel that those that are REALLY into bird hunting or any hunting are doing that.
There are plenty of bird hunting opportunities out there for those that are doing homework.
The drought last year had much to do with the lack of cover in a lot of places. Where there was little cover last year look for things to be much better this Fall.
As far as the States to supply information on what game is available, they in most cases can't supply that info, it takes scouting to know.
 
I'd rather have GFP using license dollars leasing more walk-in acres than hiring another several bodies to track habitat conditions every mid summer
 
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