Pro vs. Cons

4shot

4shot

Well-known member
The choke thread got me thinking of things we give up for others. You want the long shot or the short one. When my setter went down a few weeks back it made me think I may have to replace him. So I started thinking about the good and bad things I like about him. Pros: Love the style, watching him work, rock solid point, the tail, soft/good companion, nose, hard running. Cons: runs hard, not ideal for multiple day hunts, gets cold easy, not the greatest retriever, doesn’t want to get in the thick stuff, covers to much ground and runs over birds, little small. This is my second one now, he’s better than the first one. Would I get another? I thinks so, would pay to ensure superior traits for sure. Another one that got me was my M2. Had 40 birds flush on me and I ran outta shells, 4 just wasn’t enough😂. Went and got a tube extension, 9. A year of that noise was enough, to heavy. Weight trumped reloading.
 
This is interesting.

I recently switched back to a pointer after several labs. She is a two year old Pudelpointer.

Pros: she has a very high motor with great prey drive. She is a decent retriever although not as strong as the labs. Nose is probably better and runs all day. Range wise I am keeping her within 50 -60 yards as she is beginning to get steady. I do think her range would be 100 + if I didn’t

Cons: thirty minutes of burr removal after hunting. Has yet to become good in the house but we are working on it. The labs would always just chill but left black hair everywhere. Minimal shedding.

Switched to a Citori 16 gauge feather weight a few years ago. I love carrying it but have missed an extra shell or two on occasions.
 
My setter doesn’t mind the thick stuff and I’ve never shaved her nor given her a haircut. That’s false, earlier this year she had burrs so bad I to cut em out for an hour. She keeps warm even after standing chest deep in water. Do you shave your dog? Other than that our dogs sound remarkably similar. Mine doesn’t retrieve at all, and rather poor at finding downed birds. But run? Geez she can go all day for days full blast. Frustrating at times. She popped up a jack rabbit as I stood slack jawed watching 2 speed merchants put on show. In winter wheat I could see the whole race and that rabbit was at least getting nervous before I had to bring her back. But she’s the sweetest dog I’ve ever had, points me the birds and listens darn good. Finding myself checking out retrievers, which I’ve never had.
 
CarpTom, idk if this would work for your dog but I too spent post hunt picking burrs when I first got my setter. 4th 5th hunt it was late, I was tired and put it off till morning. To my delight she had removed most if not all the burrs she could get to herself.
 
I’m working my way into smaller dogs that are easier to care for. My wife wants to travel. As much as I love my peakes they are hard for a non dog person to handle.
Last year my shoulders went to crap. I’ve been replacing gear, better boots, lighter vest. and higher tech or lighter outer wear. Seems to be working, I feel like I can walk further and fresher than I have been able to in the last five year. And honestly I feel like it’s improving my shooting. I haven’t had to replace my gun yet but something 4 or 5 ounces lighter is probably next.
 
I have my second and third Vizslas right now and I love them. But they aren't perfect. For me at least, the pros and cons represent a comparison to the lab I had before and many other labs I've known and hunted over in the past. I suspect all of us list pros and cons in the context of our experiences rather than a wide-ranging evaluation of many breeds.

Pros: they produce far more shooting opportunities. low shedding. very people oriented. at 45-50#, I really like the size. minimal post-hunt grooming. much better tolerance of warm weather. they'll run hard for multiple days.

Cons: they'll "overrun" small covers. not great cripple-finders (I think they have the nose and the skill, but after a few minutes they'd prefer to find a new one to shoot). not great in super cold weather (this is probably more in my mind than reality). don't swim. can be energetic in the house at time.

I shoot a sxs. I suppose the pros are simplicity, lighter weight, and a certain aesthetic sensibility. The cons include lack of a third or fourth shell and being *briefly* out of commission when reloading. Reloading would be a bigger thing if I duck hunted more.
 
It’s all a compromise, for sure. Non-negotiable‘s are gun weight; dogs that are maintenance-free and are good at finding cripples; been using muck “chore cool” mid-height boots more and more over the past several years…easy to walk in for 4, 5, 6 hours…love being able to slip out easily and step into Merrell jungle Mocs during a lunch break or whatever…just got my 2nd pair, nice to rotate each day. Dog, gun, boots…my “holy trinity”…shells would be next…or choke? I shoot doubles often, I don’t really feel at a huge disadvantage vs my auto’s…they hold 3 and take much longer to reload…have settled on #6 lead for early prairie birds, #5 lead for pheasants from opening to the end…non-tox varies, just don’t use it too often. IC for single choke, skt1/skt2 for 2 barrels, with IC/M a very close second. Prefer 28”-30” barrels, my Benelli Ultralight is 26”…my Beretta AL 391 is 28”…most of my doubles are 28”…one is 27”, one is 29”.
 
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When I was a kid,we had a German wire hair.We used to duck hunt a lot,and some pheasant hunting. That dog was good on both.Good retrieving dog,excellent nose.She was the family dog.Lived to be 16.She did like to kill cats,so that was a con.She liked to roam the neighborhood, looking for cats and bunnies.
 
Tomahawker said:
CarpTom, idk if this would work for your dog but I too spent post hunt picking burrs when I first got my setter. 4th 5th hunt it was late, I was tired and put it off till morning. To my delight she had removed most if not all the burrs she could get to herself.
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Yeah mine does the same thing but she ends up eating them too for whatever reason. Then I have to listen to her hacking them up, sometimes she ends up throwing up during this process. I have used mane and tail or some cooking spray which does help some. She has wire hair on her back but it’s mainly her ears and a bit of feathering on her legs.
 

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I’ve settled on a fork and heavy duty scissors. I put the fork under the burr and can snip away without worrying about snipping skin. I know that just one time snipping her skin will make her scared of the process. As of now she kind of stoically accepts the process. Thank goodness dogs aren’t aware of their looks!
 
Cons of a field bred English springer spaniel? Well, there are aspects of hunting with a FBESS that are challenging, but they really occur relatively rarely. If I changed one of them, I'd no longer have a FBESS, which I firmly believe is the absolute best dog for my pheasant hunting style and for my family.
 
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Tomahawker said:
I’ve settled on a fork and heavy duty scissors. I put the fork under the burr and can snip away without worrying about snipping skin. I know that just one time snipping her skin will make her scared of the process. As of now she kind of stoically accepts the process. Thank goodness dogs aren’t aware of their looks!
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I have a similar process with a heavy wire comb. She really doesn’t like me messing with her ears. But she gets wax build up and I have to trim them out. It starts stinking at some point
 
I have two Drahts (wirehairs). Pros, mine have fairly tight coats (Ff for the german breed standard) that are zero maintenance besides beard as far as far as burrs go. Their endurance is unlimited and retrieving as good as any lab Ive owned. Will literally out hunt any person Ive ever hunted with day after day and range as I tell them to. Tight in cattails and 250 yds plus chasing sharpies and huns.
Cons, hunt all fur and feather equally. Weather its a rabbit, badger, coon, pheasant, coyote, or the neighbors cat or any other game animal they are all equal in their eyes including waterfowl. Deer chasing has to be nipped in the butt instantly and with no second guessing. My four year old even cornered and dispatched a 50 lb beaver this fall.
Ive owned several labs which I still have a soft spot for but will never be without a Draht as long as I can still chase the pheasants.
 
chad.vis said:
I have two Drahts (wirehairs). Pros, mine have fairly tight coats (Ff for the german breed standard) that are zero maintenance besides beard as far as far as burrs go. Their endurance is unlimited and retrieving as good as any lab Ive owned. Will literally out hunt any person Ive ever hunted with day after day and range as I tell them to. Tight in cattails and 250 yds plus chasing sharpies and huns.
Cons, hunt all fur and feather equally. Weather its a rabbit, badger, coon, pheasant, coyote, or the neighbors cat or any other game animal they are all equal in their eyes including waterfowl. Deer chasing has to be nipped in the butt instantly and with no second guessing. My four year old even cornered and dispatched a 50 lb beaver this fall.
Ive owned several labs which I still have a soft spot for but will never be without a Draht as long as I can still chase the pheasants.
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I grew up with a German wire hair.Great bird hunter! Killed several cats and bunnies and guiny pigs.
 
Ok I just bought a 2xl hunting vest. I like to bring friends,relatives,farmers out to hunt behind my dogs and my xl vest was uncomfortably tight carrying 7 or more roosters.
 
We have two griffons.
They work close, have great noses love to retrieve birds. I use them for all upland birds.
Ive used them to blood trail and recover big game that we would not have recovered otherwise.
I use them for all waterfowl hunting except cranes.
They are great in the house, really switch gears to low.

The only cons I have is that they need to hunt in cooler weather(sub 50 degree) if working upland.
They are very family oriented, do not do well if you are away from them and they are by themselves. That is why we have two.
 
My dogs have progressively gotten smaller. Weim, Vizsla, Braque Francais and now a Brittany. Never, ever had to deal with burrs until the Brittany! Last weekend was the first time we really got into some patches of hellish burrs. Had to spend over an hour trying to get them out both big and small. Had to cut some out they were so far tangled into his coat. What a PITA!

And the plus side that little Britt is tough as nails, strong for a little dog and will go into thick cover better than all the previous dogs. Doesn't look as good on point IMO but he holds and retrieves, except in water I found out. He never learned to swim! He charged after a bird shot over a small but very deep pond and freaked when he went fully underwater. LOL Going to have to get him out for some swimming lessons next summer.
 
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