Pollinator Habitat

greatlawn

greatlawn

Member
Will several small 10000 sqft Pollinator Plots work as well as a 1-2 acre Plot? I had a PF Biologist come look at the farm and recommended Pollinator Plots but was not much help after that.

Thanks
 
Sorry to hear that the PF biologist was not more help. There are people here on the forum that may be able to help you. One thing I picked up at the Pheasant Fest in KC was the need for an early pollinator to attract insects early in the spring and plums(plum thickets) were mentioned as a compliment to the forbs that would flower later in the season.

I am guessing that you are working on quail habitat there in the Independence area?
 
I have been disappointed by Pheasants Forever, particularly with quail. when you home office is in a state where no quail exist, EVER, it bothers me. I feel like they got into the "quail" business when QU was in trouble with disatisfied members and admittedly poor performance. I would encourage you to look up the " National Bobwhite Conservation Initative" on the net. Or call Max Allred, (sic), "the quail guy", with the Missouri Conservation Department, he lives in Clinton, Mo. and will be versed as to what you can do, and what the possible assitance is available, to make it work. Believe or not, being late to the dance, the MDC is now on the ball!
 
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QU

oldandnew said:
I have been disappointed by Pheasants Forever, particularly with quail. when you home office is in a state where no quail exist, EVER, it bothers me. I feel like they got into the "quail" business when QU was in trouble with disatisfied members and admittedly poor performance. I would encourage you to look up the " National Bobwhite Conservation Initative" on the net. Or call Max Allred, (sic), "the quail guy", with the Missouri Conservation Department, he lives in Clinton, Mo. and will be versed as to what you can do, and what the possible assitance is available, to make it work. Believe or not, being late to the dance, the MDC is now on the ball!
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WOW, Old and new, Your wrong about Qf . Qu now defunct had a problem with the way they ran their chapters. Simply put, the chapter got 40 percent of the money they raised and QU national got 60 percent. Quail Forever and Pheasant's Forever provide their chapters 100 percent of the money they raise to be used locally in their chapter. The only money that QF and PF get nationally is the membership dues. We are doing tons down here for quail and we are only a year old. So I do not know where you are coming from because QU was nothing but rotten from the get-go. They screwed a ton of people that worked very hard and ended up being dumped. Piss-poor management on a national level ended them. And by the way do not give a crap about the Bob Whites. They are not in areas that I hunt. That is one species....we have five here in Arizona. That is the case. Western quail against the Bob White. Way more money has been wasted on piss-poor practices in your state so my question is why aren't you a member of QF????:)
 
Guys, lets leave the biting chunks out of one another to the politicians. There's someone asking for help, not theatrics! Greatlawn, the answer to your question is "it depends". I'm not being fascitious, you just haven't provided enough information for anyone to accurately answer from. The goal here is to provide adequate amounts of habitat of adequate quality that is available to the most birds. The way to do that is by providing good interspersion of the necessary habitats with a juxtaposition that allows the entire property access to that habitat. The problem with many habitats is that there is a "limiting factor" that is either in too short of a supply to maximize the bird populations, or is too far away to be used by those populations.

Quail may spend their entire life on 15-40 acres if adequate habitat diversity is provided. The larger the area is that they have to travel in order to find the necessary habitats, the more exposed they are to the various and overly plentiful hazards that end in mortallity. You need to look at your property with an "eye" trained to jigsaw puzzle those necessary habitats together where every habitat type is near the others. You'll need nesting, brood-rearing, escape, and feeding cover. Some of those will also double as thermal cover, loafing cover, etc. Diversity within those covers will be important as well. Quail nesting season can start in April and extend into September, so it is important that your pollinator planting has blooming plants that cover the entire nesting/brood-rearing season.

If you talk to me long enough, you will notice that I rarely talk about food plots. Though they can be beneficial and may even be necessary at times, they are often over emphasized. Think about it. Eggs have to be laid, incubated, and hatched before you have a chick. Chicks must be brooded and provided "high protein" insect nutrition for weeks BEFORE any seeds become important. MOST food plots are not making seed available until early fall. By then, the population has been set and none of it is due to the average food plot. It is CRITICAL that we emphasize these first two critical production periods in order to maximize the opportunity to increase the population. Food plots support a population after it is set. They may also bring hens into spring in better condition, allowing for increased production. However, in most of quail's range in most years that is not the case. Make sure your habitat puzzle has all it's pieces!
 
greatlawn said:
Thanks I may try to look him up. The only problem is the farm is in Neosho Rapids KS.
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I believe that Kansas has made the area around there an "emphasis" area for Bobwhite. I am sure the state of Kansas can help. Be sure to look up the National Bobwhite Conservation Initative too!
 
GreatLawn,

Take the time to watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xVPAVLymn0

Prarrie Drifter gave a great explanation; the video link above will help put it into perspective. Dr. Dale Rollins evaluates quail habitat using the Softball Habitat Evaluation Technique. He has several good video online, just do a google search.

I will also add that you can have the best habitat management practices in place, but if mother-nature does not provide the needed moisture at the right time for the recruitment of bugs you will have a difficult experience. Mother Nature is a huge player in the overall puzzle. By the way Quail have been nesting in Oklahoma for 3 weeks now. I am just praying for timed rains.
 
Troy, I understand what you are talking about. I have started pushing back tree lines loosing up cover etc. What is report said was that the property was lacking nesting and brood rearing cover. They also wanted a couple of 2-3 acre Pollinator plots. I am ok with all that but what they didn't say is where to put for the greatest success. I quess I was expecting them to say push this tree line back leave this fooplot this is great place for Pollinator etc. When I asked questions he acted like it was a bother. I would gladly send the report to whoever can hep along with the google image of what I have done.


Thanks Guys

Jeff Carey
 
On a better note. Since I started working on the property we have went from seeing 1 covey of quail to seeing 3 10-15 bird coveys. We used to only see 1 or 2 deer a year on the farm now we see herds. I must be doing something right I just wanted to take it to the next level.

Jeff
 
So what do you think about Pollinator habitat? When is the best time to plant Side Oats Little Blue stem etc?
 
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Pollinator habitat is going to be increasingly important in agriculture. From a bird hunter's perspective, it is just another name for brood habitat. Since brood-rearing habitat is often the limiting factor on the landscape, that makes it doubly important. All NWSG should be planted in the dormant season into early spring. You don't want to wait too late and give it a chance to desicate as a seedling in the summer. It has to develop it's roots before that hits.
 
quail hound said:
Great videos Troy, looks like you are doing some great work out there. Not to detract from this thread but is it possible to go to a sat, sun, wed hunt schedule (like our NWR's) and set a hunter limit per day to help against over harvest?
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I'm wondering what the target population goals are for that area and how many quail can such an area support until reaching a saturation point (in an average year).

P.S.--Troy, you have a nice collection of pheasant tails. I take it you've been around the block a time or two? lol

Nick
 
quail hound said:
Great videos Troy, looks like you are doing some great work out there. Not to detract from this thread but is it possible to go to a sat, sun, wed hunt schedule (like our NWR's) and set a hunter limit per day to help against over harvest?
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Thank you for the compliment. The videos were fun to do and I truely believe that education is one of our most important missions. Mentoring to landowners is most important as over 97% of the land mass of the state is in their hands.

I am always dissatisfied with outcomes of my management. To manage a 4600 acre wildlife area 40 miles from a 1/2 million population center ensures that the results of your management will rarely be achieved due to overharvest. I don't profess to be an expert at statistics, but from the numbers I've looked at we would have to shrink the season down to zilch and the limit down to 1 or less to not overharvest quail on this area. In the past few years our deer harvest has taken on the same trajectory. Politics make anything possible, but the leverage has to be on the side of folks that want it to happen. Right now, the leverage is in the hands of folks wanting uncontrolled access. That doesn't make maximum populations possible. I have considered going to a noon closure. Unfortunately, that alone wouldn't achieve the harvest reduction needed.
 
1pheas4 said:
I'm wondering what the target population goals are for that area and how many quail can such an area support until reaching a saturation point (in an average year).

P.S.--Troy, you have a nice collection of pheasant tails. I take it you've been around the block a time or two? lol

Nick
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Nick, I have given up on any target goal on the quail population. With the current regulation package we can at best achieve a cyclic population of highs and lows where the highs are always far below the capability of the habitat. Quail are a miserable public land species to manage. They are far too susceptible to the gun and everything else with tooth or talon to fill the available habitat dependably. I do think we could achieve .5 quail per acre and possibly more. However, the manpower, regulations, and budget it would take isn't available. You notice the tail feathers. I keep them on hand at the office for when folks bring in their children. Give them a feather and they are entertained long enough to let the adults get their business done. I have chased the wiley ringneck a lot of years with some exceptional dogs. It is inevitable that a few of them come home to dinner with me.

We still haven't answered the PH question. I'm sure it's different in different places and for different plants. The best advice is to assess the site to be planted and the plants to be considered and make that decision based on those parameters!
 
Yes, I see your predicament. I guess the laws of diminished return will always be the quails safety net. I would love to put my dogs down out there someday and enjoy the hard work put forth to improve the habitat. Knowing what they are up against I would be happy to let a covey fly off without a shot fired.:cheers:
 
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