Pointing labs

This is tricky. It's not that I don't think they should be but I don't think they(breeders or breeding programs) have proven themselves just yet. There are many labs that will point but there are equal numbers of the "breed" that won't point or don't point. I think over time with strict breeding it could all come together but right now I don't thinks it's quite there. You won't find another "pointing" breed that has mixed result litters.

On the plus side think of it this way if you own a "pointing" lab you have an exceptional dog in most cases. It is a dog that has inherently learned or better yet been breed for a specific trait. Not many lab guys can say that. In time I think it will be recognized as a breed though. All good things take time;)
 
Wolters says these are "game preserve" dogs and are simply pointing on sight once their nose gets them close enough to see the bird. He doesn't feel they are true pointers.
 
morrismike said:
Wolters says these are "game preserve" dogs and are simply pointing on sight once their nose gets them close enough to see the bird. He doesn't feel they are true pointers.
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I dont have any point on sight!
 
Well good luck with getting them seperate breeds. Won't happen. Spaniel enthusiasts have wanted it for a hundred years. Field vs Show. Two very distinct seperate breeds. One absolutely sucks in the field. And also has set the breed standards for show. Go figure. But AKC recognizes them as geneticaly the same. So too will be with a Lab. Many will lay claim, and it is true. That the Lab is in fact a flushing breed... But some are doing this and I guess it's there business. Is it better for the breed? Who knows. Certainly alot of other things going on in that breed are not. I think the pointer lab is derived from dogs with poor flushes my self. And it rolled from there. Now I personaly can't give a hoot. Maybe it will be nice to have trials for them that actualy go out and find game vs tossing birds in the air to shoot. Personaly. I want the dog that finds game. So it is what it is. And time will tell.
 
FCSpringer said:
Well good luck with getting them seperate breeds. Won't happen. Spaniel enthusiasts have wanted it for a hundred years. Field vs Show. Two very distinct seperate breeds. One absolutely sucks in the field. And also has set the breed standards for show. Go figure. But AKC recognizes them as geneticaly the same. So too will be with a Lab. Many will lay claim, and it is true. That the Lab is in fact a flushing breed... But some are doing this and I guess it's there business. Is it better for the breed? Who knows. Certainly alot of other things going on in that breed are not. I think the pointer lab is derived from dogs with poor flushes my self. And it rolled from there. Now I personaly can't give a hoot. Maybe it will be nice to have trials for them that actualy go out and find game vs tossing birds in the air to shoot. Personaly. I want the dog that finds game. So it is what it is. And time will tell.
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FC If you ever come to Colorado look me up, I would love to get my poor flushers out and show you dogs that can burn up a field:D

There is a pup of mine that is in Wyoming running with setters on Sage Grouse!
 
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keskam said:
FC If you ever come to Colorado look me up, I would love to get my poor flushers out and show you dogs that can burn up a field:D
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I think you missed his point. He is thinking that labs flush and a group of flushers that weren't good at it turned into pointers. Somebody ran with these pointers and now you have pointing labs.

They could probably break the labs up into 4 breeds, show lab, regular lab (for hunting and pets), robot dogs (for trials), and maybe pointers.
 
keskam said:
I dont have any point on sight!
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Wolters is pretty smart and I'm sure there are exceptions. Usually people that smart are prone to making sweeping generalizations.

If I'm trailing too far back, my chessie will wait for me to come up before flushing up the bird she's onto. I wouldn't call this pointing since she probably has a good idea how far away is too far (since her objective is to retrieve a dead bird) and if she were younger I'm sure this could be turned into pointing. Maybe this is how all pointers came to be?
 
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morrismike said:
I think you missed his point. He is thinking that labs flush and a group of flushers that weren't good at it turned into pointers. Somebody ran with these pointers and now you have pointing labs.

They could probably break the labs up into 4 breeds, show lab, regular lab (for hunting and pets), robot dogs (for trials), and maybe pointers.
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I did some reseach and found years ago before AKC was in tact that Labs may have been bred with Spanish pointers,years ago they were bred to nuffys for a bigger stronger lab, IMO this is the closest i see as the why,,,,

I didnt know Springers (show) were the same as Labs( Show) Yes the show dogs are a different breed all together,
 
No they should not be separate (the AKC will never do it) I whistle sit my dogs when they start getting to far out on late season runners so I can catch up. This tends to start a point of sorts on birds that tend to sit tight (pen birds or first snow birds). I find stopping/ pointing to be a fault not an attribute. If I want a point I will get a pointer. A lab pointing is like using a crescent wrench to pound nails......it works but not real well.

These are my opinions, I am sorry if I offended anyone.

Steve
 
A lab is a lab. a gsp is a gsp. we wouldnt have a seperate category for a visla that makes 200 yard blind retrieves. Yes seeing a labrador locked up on hedge grove may be sacreligious to some but complete bliss to others. If your dog makes you proud and fun to hunt with thats good enough for me:)
 
Gatzby said:
No they should not be separate (the AKC will never do it) I whistle sit my dogs when they start getting to far out on late season runners so I can catch up. This tends to start a point of sorts on birds that tend to sit tight (pen birds or first snow birds). I find stopping/ pointing to be a fault not an attribute. If I want a point I will get a pointer. A lab pointing is like using a crescent wrench to pound nails......it works but not real well.

These are my opinions, I am sorry if I offended anyone.

Steve
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Yep, that's why we have so many different breeds, there is no tool or dog that is best at everything.
Could I duck hunt with my setters, yes but there are better breeds for that.
 
I have two that were bought as "pointing" labs. Although they didn't go to cert. school, they will point on young birds and hens. However, I agree that they shouldn't have a separate classification.
 
I dont know if this is just a coincidence but the best labs that ive ever hunted behind pointed. But that was just one of the amazing things these dogs could do. These dogs were owned by an older gentlemen that ran a ranch in south central sd. Another was a friend of mine, the dog was special. he died after being neutered at only 3 years old.
 
peterpointinglab said:
I dont know if this is just a coincidence but the best labs that ive ever hunted behind pointed. But that was just one of the amazing things these dogs could do. These dogs were owned by an older gentlemen that ran a ranch in south central sd. Another was a friend of mine, the dog was special. he died after being neutered at only 3 years old.
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I know a guy out there too that has Golden retrievers that point with the best of them. I have owned a springer that would lock up at a solid point. It was a flaw in a flushing breed. A poor slow flush. Simple as that. It is not a desirable trate in the true sense of a flushing breed,It is a flaw. It has nothing to do with weather one thinks it's cool, neat or fantastic. Many might think so. But breed purists know it as a flaw. Go on a British forum and ask what they think of "British pointing labs" I think we could find out more about the subject. Personaly, I have no problem with it. But if I was a purist of the breed, and was inbeded in them, I would. My dogs would drive in on a flush. It is what it is now, so people may as well get used to em.
:cheers:
 
A dog that is obedient, has a tremendous drive, points, flushes, blind retrieves anything at long distances with a simple dead command. is neat, cool and fantastic to me. Change is part of evolution and it is a good thing. Our technology, intelligence and our hunting dogs continue to evolve and get better. Hunt behind a well trained, well bred one of these dogs and you cant help but think that the "pointing lab" is one of the most versatile and well rounded hunting dog you could ever wish to hunt behind or even own.
 
I agree with what your saying but.....
My fear is that the PL crazy will effect the breed the way chocolates did during the crazy "I gotta own a chocolate" craze. Unfortunately there are breeders that will breed anything that might make them a buck. Google "silver labs" sometimes! These breeders and pet owners are destroying the breed for a dollar. Evolution is great but it needs to happen gradually. Sticking a couple dogs together that might point and running an add is not evolution. Quality breeding requires a lot of home work some luck and the ability to make hard decisions (culling still occurs). Personally I do not and will not breed.

I have sitting for 3 hours in the rain waiting to run... Why do I hunt test?
 
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