Pheasants Forever- SCAM or do they help upland hunters?

As I mentioned earlier, I have some issues with our current chapters leadership but in the past that chapter has done some great things including purchasing a driil to plant CRP that was made available at low or no cost to farmers to plant CRP fields and pivot corners. There was also some reduced cost CRP seed available.

Some of that ground is now enrolled in public access programs, most is private but some can be accessed by asking permission and some can’t be accessed at all but all of it provides habitat.

Those of you who really understand know that high quality CRP grass seed is expensive but provides good habitat cover. The cheapest is cool season grasses like Brome but it isn’t the best for habitat. Subsidizing the cost of the seed to provide high quality cover benefits all game animals and birds and I’d much rather see a CRP field with pheasants that I’m not able to hunt than not see any pheasants at all.

I think many of you feel the same way but there are obviously some that can’t see the forest because of the trees!
 
3car you brought up something i forgot to mention...since 2012 when I joined this chapter we have contributed, iirc 80,000.00 to our nrcs for drills and other equipment purchases or repairs.
 
benelli-banger said:
I’m sure PF has engaged in egregious fraud, abused staff in various ways, engineered devious ways to benefit major donors, etc, all at the expense of average donors, our dogs, and most importantly, the pheasants. But I’ll still send my $75. ?
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Right? A pittance for what's usually a pretty nice hat! They've had a couple dud years, but I keep holding out hope.
 
I was part of a group that had some land in SD. We were from Michigan. We wanted to do some habitat project but really had no idea where to begin. I called the closest PF biologist in SD. He met me at the property. We went over some of the things he felt we could do. He kind of came up with a time line of mowing disking some burn and replant quality habitat seed. He got the feds to donate the seed. He offered to loan us some of the equipment needed. The guy just went above and beyond to help us succeed, at no real cost to us other than the mowing and disking which the tenant farmer offered to do. That happens all over pheasant country. You want to call that a scam go ahead, it speaks volumes about the accuser. I have become a life member and a major supporter. Together we can accomplish far more that the individual.
Locally hear in Michigan the PF chapter put on youth hunting classes. We also have a couple youth "hunts" at the club I belong to. My 2 grand daughter have taken part in these activities. They have both become excellent shots. They have been featured on the local outdoors television show during these hunts. What a confidence builder for those young ladies. They along with dozens of other kids attend the banquet attend the banquet. They get some great door prizes and a chance to win some stuff. They get excited about the experience. This how we build the future of the sport we love. Scam? think again.
 
SPUR60 said:
Break it down then. Show us where the scam is.
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I forgot I started this thread- dont visit here much anymore as people aren't as active on forums.

Anyways you can review some of the comments -- if you understand financial statements and tax returns - the proof is in the pudding or if you follow the money.

Living an hr from KC I admittedly did go to Pheasant fest this year (Feb or Mar 2025) when it was in KC -- I took my then 10 yr old son with me -- he enjoyed it - not sure why it was in KC other than KC is a good town and has a lot of people.....

The best irony and "Bill Engvall, 'Here's your sign'" moment was in the back of the convention - where a large Bayer booth was set up with some propoganda about pollinators and butterflies -- no one was visiting the people manning the booth as hopefully many realized the hyperbole in what they were representing.


If anyone wanted to have a serious discussion on the matter and actually look at the financials and talk through it - I'd be happy to do so over coffee -- aruging back and forth online usually doesn't accomplish much.

Besides the Financials --

I'd like to point out a couple things I believe are patenly false that Remy has stated (he won't respond to me since he has me on ignore for my dislike of PF) --

#1 -- PF and non profit's in general can own and hold land - so not sure why he is spreading this disinformation
#2 -- It is my opinion that orgs such as DU, and Nature conservancy have put more of their money where their mouth is as far as improving habitat or making land they may own accessible to hunters (IN KS this is 100000% TRUE)
#3 -- I've seen PF take ownership of land donated to them in KS (a whole section in the heart of Pheasant country) then later turn around and sell it without ever enrollling it in the WIHA program etc.
#4 -- A good friend of mine who is a land/habitat manager for a large # of wealthy land owners (most out of state) in S Central KS has had to deal directly with bigwigs at PF multiple times -- his personal dealings with the corporate HQ pf guys are not positive at all and the overall concensus was all they wanted to do was look out for themselves and use any of these private habitat projects they had their label on to get access for their corporate hunting.


I really wish PF would get rid of their board and start over - they have turned out to be about as worthless and scandalous as the NRA turned out to be sadly. The innocence of my youth thinking these orgs were out to protect our rights and help the common person but instead they are just in it for corporate greed and enriching themselves and their friends.
 
Mrben said:
............... I called the closest PF biologist in SD. He met me at the property. We went over some of the things he felt we could do. He kind of came up with a time line of mowing disking some burn and replant quality habitat seed. He got the feds to donate the seed. He offered to loan us some of the equipment needed. The guy just went above and beyond to help us succeed, at no real cost to us other than the mowing and disking which the tenant farmer offered to do. ...................
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That wasn't PF's money funding the biologist -- PF is paying the bioligist but the funding is coming from Grants/Fed money from the government -- your and my and everyone here's tax money -- great that it's being done -but dont let it fool you that PF is "Paying" for this.

The best metaphor I can come up with on how DU, PF, name the non profit habitat organization -- is operating is they are taking a "Vig" from the govt funds and skimming in essence.

They are not much different than many other NGO's padding their pockets (Non government organizations). You want to go down a rabbit hole - google NGO's and what they were doing with immigration, the Taliban, etc.

Look at the financials and tax returns -- the truth is in front of us all.

PF has multiple entities you'd need to track down and look up the financials/tax returns for -- theres a land holding company, the main entity and some others. I may have linked to it earlier in this thread - but wont waste my time doing it again.
 
I would like to know the whole story on the Kansas land deal. I found a property that our group was willing to buy and sell back to pf at a considerable discount. The state says we are not buying any land.

Currently we prodded enough that pf and sd gf&p did get together on a couple new land acquisitions.

There is another public land issue which I am not happy with but neighboring land owners have to approve of the land being made public. This really chaps my butt as a landowner can tile a field and run the water onto adjoining properties and they have no say.
 
Weimdogman said:
I would like to know the whole story on the Kansas land deal. I found a property that our group was willing to buy and sell back to pf at a considerable discount. The state says we are not buying any land.

Currently we prodded enough that pf and sd gf&p did get together on a couple new land acquisitions.

There is another public land issue which I am not happy with but neighboring land owners have to approve of the land being made public. This really chaps my butt as a landowner can tile a field and run the water onto adjoining properties and they have no say.
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I dont know if you are from KS or ever read the Wichita Eagle -- but for years they had a writer named Michael Pearce -- I think he may have been on this forum at one time -- He's active on FB and we are FB friends. Anyways He wrote an article that would be in their archives about I think a wichita area man that had completed his estate planning and the land was to be donated to PF -- he was to have sole hunting access until he passed then full control of the property would go to PF. I think a similar type deal was made when the Nature Conservancy bought the acreage of the Little Jerusalem Badlands in SW KS. Family that owned it gets full rights to it - but in return the area was opened up to the public for trail hiking to see the formations. That seemed a fair enough deal as the acreage wasn't that large.

But back to the PF Deal .........I found the section of pasture/crp land on the Land owner maps (It was in Ford county or Gray I think s of Dodge or maybe west towards Sublette in the Sand hills -- either way it was south of the Ark River a little bit in that general area) -- or ONX Maps may have been up and running by then -- I checked yearly to see if that section would ever be enrolled in WIHA as it was bordered by irrigated corn circles all around. Then one year it was listed under a different owner and PF no longer had ownership. Never made it into WIHA.

****I logged into ONX just now - to search for Pheasants Forever - I guess now they have 400 some acres that border Byron Walker near Kingman so maybe they saw me raising a stink years ago - who knows -- and it's in WIHA. So I guess they did that but who knows for how long.

Seriously -- if you go dig into their financials PF has a land holding company where you can see where they own land and also the financials shows the revenue they generated from selling land etc. I think they often do what churches will do -- they'll get stuff donated to them - then sit on it or later turn around and sell it to add money to their bank all the while not paying tax on anything and funding the exorbitant C Suite pay and overhead.

I'd be more than over the moon to donate money to them if their mission was shifted to help with hunting access and habitat projects on land that is accessible and to stop lying (not forthcoming) about their funding and how it's spent.

They could buy half of eastern Colorado if we pooled our resources -- they have some good pheasant pockets and open it up for hunting. Land there doesnt sell for much. Anyways corruption never stops -- we live in America where we look down on 3rd world countries corruption but refuse to admit what happens at home.
 
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In the nicest way possible, I’m a CPA and your comments show me you're uninformed on how a nonprofit’s structure/financial restrictions work.

A couple of things: the CEO, Marilyn Vetter, makes $300k per the latest return. That’s not “exorbitant” as you claim. Executive pay was $2.5M for 11 individuals, so $227k per person. I wouldn’t qualify that as exorbitant for the top dogs. I’ve seen others make this claim.

It’s common to have a separate entity to hold land for tax and legal purposes. They aren’t in the business of holding land - they want to sell/move it to another organization/the state since their mission is to restore and maintain habitat. That’s why you’re seeing that in their financials. It’s not shady. And, proceeds from selling that land is often tagged to be used for future conservation - not to pay overhead/salaries.

To be honest, your posts have a lot of vague/opinionated claims “corruption never stops”, “look at the financials and tax return”, “it’s my opinion they could do better in creating habitat”.
 
SDinWI said:
In the nicest way possible, I’m a CPA and your comments show me you're uninformed on how a nonprofit’s structure/financial restrictions work.

A couple of things: the CEO, Marilyn Vetter, makes $300k per the latest return. That’s not “exorbitant” as you claim. Executive pay was $2.5M for 11 individuals, so $227k per person. I wouldn’t qualify that as exorbitant for the top dogs. I’ve seen others make this claim.

It’s common to have a separate entity to hold land for tax and legal purposes. They aren’t in the business of holding land - they want to sell/move it to another organization/the state since their mission is to restore and maintain habitat. That’s why you’re seeing that in their financials. It’s not shady. And, proceeds from selling that land is often tagged to be used for future conservation - not to pay overhead/salaries.

To be honest, your posts have a lot of vague/opinionated claims “corruption never stops”, “look at the financials and tax return”, “it’s my opinion they could do better in creating habitat”.
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I'd wager last months profit that the $300k is not the only form of compensation -- there is likely other entities that are harder to dig up where more money is coming from. I haven't invested the time but if one did I'm sure it or others would be found.

And yes I completely understand the need to have a separate entity to hold title to RE and run the Re transactions through it -- what is bogus is the land was to be donated to PF (the scenario I mentioned) to facilitate hunting access -- instead they sold it for God knows what purpose- the part of the state it was located in it could have been an amazing WIHA to this day and made the org money by leasing out grazing rights, enrolling in CRP, oil production etc.

I dont profess to be a financial guru - but know my way around financials and handle most of my own with others outside oversight. PF is not the angel everyone here makes them out to be.

Love my CPA and having discussions with him - but the designation of CPA does not make one a subject matter expert.

Most non profits are nothing more than bloated ticks serving a purpose deeply disguised and other than what they advertise they exist for.

I find it ironic they took the bios off the board -- prior a bio and their photo were up. I quickly googled each board name and am blown away they have a Black man and more than one woman on the board. So the board has shown some growth since I put this post up. At that time it was mainly everyone over 50-60 (i'm close to the lower end of 50 now so nothing against age -- but having everyone the same age is not a sample of who you represent) and all white - with one or two women if at all going from memory. I guess I'll give it to them they "grew" in having a bit more diversity, some youth on the board too. SURPRISING
 
Alright, I don’t think you really want a fair discussion. You have your opinion and you’re set. Even harping on them for diversifying their board, come on, buddy.

You say I don’t know everything about financials - very true. But, I sure as heck know a lot more about financials than you and the average Joe as this is what I’ve studied and have expertise in.

Like what you just said above, executive pay shows up in the consolidated entity (PF parent entity- not any other “hidden entities”). The schedule in the 990 that confirms this and shows any related entity payments to anyone also shows $0, so the amounts that I stated before is total compensation. But, that doesn’t fit your narrative on the big bad executives!
 
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KsHusker said:
#3 -- I've seen PF take ownership of land donated to them in KS (a whole section in the heart of Pheasant country) then later turn around and sell it without ever enrollling it in the WIHA program etc.
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DU does that literally every day. Very little DU owned property gets turned into public access. Most is restored, has easements placed on it, and sold. Both organizations main goals are habitat above all else.
 
States can’t just accept land and magically it’s instant public land. There are costs to the state and tax payers such as maintenance, signage, parking or other improvements, protection, etc. all at tax payers expense. Those costs have to be budgeted for. Takes time and resources. The wheels of government turn slowly and for a reason. A land deal for 640 acres with caveats would be a pain in the ass between a citizen, PF, and state government.
I would take a CPAs opinion of the books over anyone else.
I used to have the belief that it was a joke to donate to the organization and then see the PF signs on private land that no one can hunt, I have since changed that position with a little education and the use of my own 2 eyes to see the benefit of such an organization.
 
Golddog said:
States can’t just accept land and magically it’s instant public land. There are costs to the state and tax payers such as maintenance, signage, parking or other improvements, protection, etc. all at tax payers expense. Those costs have to be budgeted for. Takes time and resources. The wheels of government turn slowly and for a reason. A land deal for 640 acres with caveats would be a pain in the ass between a citizen, PF, and state government.
I would take a CPAs opinion of the books over anyone else.
I used to have the belief that it was a joke to donate to the organization and then see the PF signs on private land that no one can hunt, I have since changed that position with a little education and the use of my own 2 eyes to see the benefit of such an organization.
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Nature Conservancy owns a lot of land - it's not an issue for them.

He claims he's a CPA - I can claim I'm a brain surgeon -

As to my comments on the board - I am genuinely applauding them for having some diversity (A black man) and some women on the board -- the makeup in 2019 -2020 was not the case and was all white and mainly 50-60 yrs old if I recall.

Either way - with the revitalization of this thread - there are a great # of us that do not believe in PF's mission -- some of you do - it's all good.

All I can say is if they would focus on keeping and buying land or anything in general that permanently would open up bird hunting access where there are still wild birds - then I'd be behind them 1000% - - I do not see that as their mission and the mission mostly seems to be lip service.
 
Gatzby said:
seems like you are the governor of MN:):)
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I think if the Catholic Church is still alive, PF will survive, too…I was being bombastic and facetious in my earlier claims …maybe PF is guilty of something…I have no idea and could care less…this whole thread is interesting and entertaining and cements in my feeble mind that the truly important things will never have consensus and the USA is doomed. That I really do mean, and really do believe. National debt is over $38,000,000,000,000 and before long 100% of our revenue will be used to service interest on the debt, and we’ll have nary a penny to spend on anything else. May seem a long ways away, but it’s not. And even at 50% of revenue needed for just interest on the debt, lots of other important things will be pushed aside. Go hunting…do something fun…we’re living in a fantasy world…both parties are, this isn’t pointing fingers at one party or another. We’re phucked…mainly because nobody seems to care. When Ross Perot had his national debt chart in 1992, we were at $2,000,000,000,000 in debt. We’ll be at 40 trillion quickly…then 50 trillion. We’re phucked. Nobody seems to care. It’s gonna bring us down….your kids and grandkids are phucked….we’re gonna hit $1,000,000,000,000 in annual interest expenditures any moment now…and it’s gonna double in a decade…I think the likelihood of interest rates going back to zero during economic crises is zilch…creditors will demand a rate commensurate with the risk…we’re likely in a 2.5%-5% range, or higher…watch out. Our “new normal” is taking in about 5 trillion annually, and spending about 7 trillion, tacking an extra 2 trillion on to the debt annually. A decade, or 15 years ago, it was normal to add 300, 400 billion on to the national debt annually…”budget deficit”…we’re pushing 2 trillion annually in years WITHOUT a war, or crisis, or pandemic…give us one of them, we’ll jump that year’s deficit to 4 or 5 trillion…we’ll be at 50 trillion before we know it….
 
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Tim Walz is a better pheasant hunter than most of us here on this forum, myself included…I’ll take the comparison to him, with much gratitude…he shoots a .410, and shoots it well. Things are starting to make sense around here…
 
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