Pay to play!

UGUIDE

UGUIDE

Active member
There it is out there for all to see:D

Everyone knows that pheasant have been declining across the county like a receding hairline on a middle aged man.

Just ask any of our UGUIDE hunters that come from a myriad of states where this has happened over the decades.

South Dakota is certainly not immune from this trend and the recent trend could be permanent in nature due to the shift in agricultural practices which has most likely been the cause in most other states.

Now hear this: If South Dakota is to be the gauntlet of declining pheasant numbers in this country it will be for a host of reasons but for one very prominent reason that differs from any other state in the union.

"It is highly commercialized. Has been for a long time. And only will be in the future as long as there remains a sufficient number of birds to attract tourists to the state."

Other key elements that will help form the gauntlet are as follows: Pheasant Forever Farm Bill Biologists, DU Winter Wheat Agronomy Program, The Prairie Coteau Region and resources devoted to both waterfowl and upland birds and the preservation of this region of the country, SD Game Fish and Parks partnering with the right programs and people in the state, USDA/FSA/NRCS offices in the state that promote conservation thru their offices in their respective counties, sportsman that are willing to pay for the resource they consume, and lastly but not least....producer landowners that are willing to stand in the gap and make a difference and go the extra mile and in effect be an agent for change on the landscape and manage their acres in a truly sustainable fashion.
 
We should have to reference PAY TO PLAY, in caps, at least three times to be able to comment on your thread. Because we all

know PAY TO PLAY is the bane of pheasant hunting in SD. There are over a million acres of ground to hunt in SD. That is probably

not going to go up whether or not PAY TO PLAY happens or not. Actually PAY TO PLAY enhances the pheasant hunting for all that

come. Because the last time I checked PAY TO PLAY operations did not have netting over their PAY TO PLAY operations. This

allowed birds that were on the PAY TO PLAY operation to leave the PAY TO PLAY operation and possibly be harvested by someone

who chose not to PAY TO PLAY. You would think those that chose not to PAY TO PLAY would actually be grateful that the PAY TO

PLAY operations were in existence because with out them the hunting would not be as good on the non PAY TO PLAY operations.

SO to wrap this up if you choose to PAY TO PLAY or not to PAY TO PLAY that is up to you. But PAY TO PLAY operations have

been in SD for a long time and will continue to exist. But the next time you go to SD and choose not to PAY TO PLAY, the bird you

harvest on your non- PAY TO PLAY land, very well may have been fed and sheltered on the neighbors land that is PAY TO PLAY.


I hate to set the bar so high on the first post but good luck
 
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I have never claimed to be smart...so, help me understand; PTP hunters don't take my public spots, generally speaking...they support these chunks of habitat that will allow birds to reproduce, and then possibly wander elsewhere to be shot by non-PTP hunters...I have to leave for work, so I am not able to give this a bunch of time, but I don't see the negatives....I am open to be educated, however...God knows I learn things regularly that I didn't know before but probably should have!
 
One of my all time jokes. Involves a quail hunter, he had to make friends with land owners who had decent quail hunting, was involved with bird dogs, had a couple of shotguns, and even in the 1970's spent a lot on gas, clothes, doing chores for the land owners, and of course dogs! When he went to justify it, he went to 5-6 doctors to find a quail hunter, who understood, and gave him a prescription to hunt because it was "good for his health". There by avoiding his wife's and his job complaints. We all pay to hunt, unless you kid yourself. Besides what are going to do with your money? Leave to the kids when you go? or spent it on a nursing home before? Well at least you have warm memories of the good old days. As far as the kids go, why not buy farm ground, put it in CRP, for a residual income, when the kids need more money they can rent it out to the walk-in hunting program, when your gone. It might not be a big cash return, but it's better than your new car! I do farm loans, If you find the place... I will get you financed. Now your actually doing something! Become a solution, acre by acre! We can do what the duck hunters did, buy up a lot of bottom ground and turned it into waterfowl mecca's, all up and down the flyways. If we had 40 or 80 acres per section, in habitat, imagine what we could do to pheasant numbers in Iowa? It would preserve pheasants in South and North Dakota. Each one of use can generally afford 40@. I see it sold for 750.00 in the Dakota's. I would buy some there but I think the state should re-think there non-resident fees, I am not going to have to pay $100 for every 10 days to hunt my own ground!
 
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SD is king of pheasant hunting & it dose have to do with the PAY TO PLAY guys creating & maintaining habitat for birds & or releasing birds for clients wear needed but not every WILD pheasant in SD is there due to a PAY TO PLAY guide service thats giving them 2 much credit...

in MN pheasant numbers are not any wear near wear SD pheasant numbers are but that being said in MN we do still have pheasants wear we have habitat & in MN wear we have habitat is mostly on public lands & thats wear alot of pheasants are there are nice chunks of public land habitat good sized WMA complexes that are able to hold pheasants year round no need for a PAY TO PLAY guide to hold pheasants in many of them areas with a core habitat... PF will help the birds out on those public land complexes by paying farmers on ajoining lands to leave some stubble be it beans/corn for the pheasants threw out the winter & not turn the crops over to dirt... no PAY TO PLAY out there and there is pheasants & will be as the land is state owned not leased & will be there for ever...

the thing thats not cool about many many PAY TO PLAY or commercialized operations or regions of the country is there just doing what there doing for $$$ pure & simple they could care less if they make $$$ on beef corn beans hay or pheasants what ever make a little more $$$ they release pen raised birds & claim there wild ETC. then there are the true stewards of the land that care about the pheasants & its future they may & will loose a few bucks or a little $$$ buy leaving some standing crops or not turning over that CRP or burning cattails ETC. but they like seeing wild birds & running a hunting operations they are great guys...

in these highly commercialized areas guides will lock up private lands all over the area for PAY TO PLAY boys even if they need the lands or not & thus some DIY guy will have to knock on tons of doors B4 they find lands they can hunt with out PAYING $$$ many wont let you hunt cuz they cant if its leased by a PAY TO PLAY operation... even in highly commercialized area if the land is not leased up by guides the landowner will stick his hand out & ask for $$$ because the guy up the road did & he maid 100$-150$ per gun per day ETC. its just a sad thing when a area becomes TO HIGHLY COMMERCIALIZED like alot of SD has become... it sucks when i guy would rather let his land sit there & never be hunted for free & the only way he would let people hunt is for $$$ yes its his land & he can do what he wants to but thats just not like it once was in pheasant country... i understand i have grand kids hunting or family friends but to say i only let guys who PAY on my farm is sad or would be sad to hear... for me at least... but i do come from a state wear we have some of the most public lands in the country to hunt on... PAY TO PLAY is not a issue here u can still obtain hunting permission on a hello & a hand shake like the old days... just got to find the habitat thats left here in MN 2 hunt lol really not funny
 
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small munsterlander owner said:
SD is king of pheasant hunting & it dose have to do with the PAY TO PLAY guys creating & maintaining habitat for birds & or releasing birds for clients wear needed but not every WILD pheasant in SD is there due to a PAY TO PLAY guide service thats giving them 2 much credit...

in MN pheasant numbers are not any wear near wear SD pheasant numbers are but that being said in MN we do still have pheasants wear we have habitat & in MN wear we have habitat is mostly on public lands & thats wear alot of pheasants are there are nice chunks of public land habitat good sized WMA complexes that are able to hold pheasants year round no need for a PAY TO PLAY guide to hold pheasants in many of them areas with a core habitat... PF will help the birds out on those public land complexes by paying farmers on ajoining lands to leave some stubble be it beans/corn for the pheasants threw out the winter & not turn the crops over to dirt... no PAY TO PLAY out there and there is pheasants & will be as the land is state owned not leased & will be there for ever...

the thing thats not cool about many many PAY TO PLAY or commercialized operations or regions of the country is there just doing what there doing for $$$ pure & simple they could care less if they make $$$ on beef corn beans hay or pheasants what ever make a little more $$$ they release pen raised birds & claim there wild ETC. then there are the true stewards of the land that care about the pheasants & its future they may & will loose a few bucks or a little $$$ buy leaving some standing crops or not turning over that CRP or burning cattails ETC. but they like seeing wild birds & running a hunting operations they are great guys...

in these highly commercialized areas guides will lock up private lands all over the area for PAY TO PLAY boys even if they need the lands or not & thus some DIY guy will have to knock on tons of doors B4 they find lands they can hunt with out PAYING $$$ many wont let you hunt cuz they cant if its leased by a PAY TO PLAY operation... even in highly commercialized area if the land is not leased up by guides the landowner will stick his hand out & ask for $$$ because the guy up the road did & he maid 100$-150$ per gun per day ETC. its just a sad thing when a area becomes TO HIGHLY COMMERCIALIZED like alot of SD has become... it sucks when i guy would rather let his land sit there & never be hunted for free & the only way he would let people hunt is for $$$ yes its his land & he can do what he wants to but thats just not like it once was in pheasant country... i understand i have grand kids hunting or family friends but to say i only let guys who PAY on my farm is sad or would be sad to hear... for me at least... but i do come from a state wear we have some of the most public lands in the country to hunt on... PAY TO PLAY is not a issue here u can still obtain hunting permission on a hello & a hand shake like the old days... just got to find the habitat thats left here in MN 2 hunt lol really not funny
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Even though this is uguide's thread, and he would make the official ruling, I

only counted eight uses of PAY TO PLAY. It looks like you started to use PAY

TO PLAY, but stopped short of using PAY TO PLAY by only using the word

PLAY. I will let Chris rule on that. So unless the word PLAY is counted in your

PAY TO PLAY total, your PAY TO PLAY total will be 8. While an admirable total

of PAY TO PLAY, it falls short of my record PAY TO PLAY of 16 PAY TO

PLAY'S that I recorded in an earlier post.

Hey Chris, can the winner get a hat? I am an 8 1/4 as you can imagine:D

Ps. I can imagine that this thread is going to get me called to the principle's office again so someone keep my seat warm:D
 
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if being annoying gets you sent to the corner for awhile you better take your seat there now carptom1

ill put P2P if u stop counting & read the post instead of counting the PAY TO PLAYs???

i mean its good to have fun on here but have more to say then I THINK U USE PAY TO PLAY to much... add a little something to the thread then crack needless jokes if you must???

it gets old when u have a guy that just posts to stir the pot & not to add anything??? do both & ur golden...
 
I have seen it in the last month. A little research will yield results. If you are sincere, send me a private message. I get paid to give agricultural advice. I'm not going to send you to my honey holes either.
 
small munsterlander owner said:
if being annoying gets you sent to the corner for awhile you better take your seat there now carptom1

ill put P2P if u stop counting & read the post instead of counting the PAY TO PLAYs???

i mean its good to have fun on here but have more to say then I THINK U USE PAY TO PLAY to much... add a little something to the thread then crack needless jokes if you must???

it gets old when u have a guy that just posts to stir the pot & not to add anything??? do both & ur golden...
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Ok I will add this and than I am probably done. I would guess that 50% of your posts bash PAY TO PLAY on this site. You bash it in probably every manner possible. We all get it. I seriously doubt anyone on this site has any doubt how you feel about PAY TO PLAY. We could start a poll if you would like, but I would guess it would be around 98-99%. I guess the question for me is why do you have such a hard on for PAY TO PLAY in regards to pheasant hunting. If it were not for some of the farmers charging for PAYING FOR PLAYING ( do you like the way I pluralized that? I think it counts but I will let Chris rule on it:D) SD would have been a barren wasteland similar to Kansas was last year. I know you claim to not like PAY TO PLAY, and claim that you wouldn't do it if you could afford it, but it seemed like you were warming up to the idea of PAY TO PLAY with Chris in another thread. Let me break down my PAY TO PLAY and how I accomplish it. My other costs to travel to SD to hunt PAY TO PLAY include the following:

gas from kansas to SD, I travel with my boys to PAY TO PLAY land and they have no money ( one is now 16, the other is 22 and at KU so he is still mooching too) so I pay all the gas. Last year that was around 450.00

Motel Super 8 all three in the same room 4 nights 260.00

licenses for 3 330.00

food and snacks for 3 60 bucks a day 240.00

shells,hunting stuff,clothes,boots etc per year 200.00

1 day public hunting free

3 days PAY TO PLAY 1/2 price for 16yr old
150 x 3 x2 900.00
75 x 3 x2 450.00

Memories,pictures,boys talking about it all year Worth every penny

A lifetime of experience for my dog in one year priceless

So that makes it about 3k for all of us to go PAY TO PLAY. Vs 15 or 1600 hunting public. If I was by myself it would be a bunch cheaper. I love pheasant hunting more than anything else. I Know that sounds like a lot but guess what I don't smoke or chew tobacco. I don't drink much. I drive a 16 year old truck. One guy could do this for a whole lot less, it is out there. I pay for this and our other vacations with a saturday side job that I have. Worked probably 30 saturdays last year. It just seems that someone who talks about PAY TO PLAY so much on here really is a little jealous about others that choose to do it. Listen man, If you want to PAY TO PLAY it is about making it a priority and working and saving for it. If you don't want to do PAY TO PLAY, than quit whining about it all the time. I don't critisize you for coming to Kansas and hunting turkey's for free, why do you constantly complain about us that choose to PAY TO PLAY?

Wow that's only 15. That 16 is a tough number:D
 
carptom1 said:
Ok I will add this and than I am probably done. I would guess that 50% of your posts bash PAY TO PLAY on this site. You bash it in probably every manner possible. We all get it. I seriously doubt anyone on this site has any doubt how you feel about PAY TO PLAY. We could start a poll if you would like, but I would guess it would be around 98-99%. I guess the question for me is why do you have such a hard on for PAY TO PLAY in regards to pheasant hunting. If it were not for some of the farmers charging for PAYING FOR PLAYING ( do you like the way I pluralized that? I think it counts but I will let Chris rule on it:D) SD would have been a barren wasteland similar to Kansas was last year. I know you claim to not like PAY TO PLAY, and claim that you wouldn't do it if you could afford it, but it seemed like you were warming up to the idea of PAY TO PLAY with Chris in another thread. Let me break down my PAY TO PLAY and how I accomplish it. My other costs to travel to SD to hunt PAY TO PLAY include the following:

gas from kansas to SD, I travel with my boys to PAY TO PLAY land and they have no money ( one is now 16, the other is 22 and at KU so he is still mooching too) so I pay all the gas. Last year that was around 450.00

Motel Super 8 all three in the same room 4 nights 260.00

licenses for 3 330.00

food and snacks for 3 60 bucks a day 240.00

shells,hunting stuff,clothes,boots etc per year 200.00

1 day public hunting free

3 days PAY TO PLAY 1/2 price for 16yr old
150 x 3 x2 900.00
75 x 3 x2 450.00

Memories,pictures,boys talking about it all year Worth every penny

A lifetime of experience for my dog in one year priceless

So that makes it about 3k for all of us to go PAY TO PLAY. Vs 15 or 1600 hunting public. If I was by myself it would be a bunch cheaper. I love pheasant hunting more than anything else. I Know that sounds like a lot but guess what I don't smoke or chew tobacco. I don't drink much. I drive a 16 year old truck. One guy could do this for a whole lot less, it is out there. I pay for this and our other vacations with a saturday side job that I have. Worked probably 30 saturdays last year. It just seems that someone who talks about PAY TO PLAY so much on here really is a little jealous about others that choose to do it. Listen man, If you want to PAY TO PLAY it is about making it a priority and working and saving for it. If you don't want to do PAY TO PLAY, than quit whining about it all the time. I don't critisize you for coming to Kansas and hunting turkey's for free, why do you constantly complain about us that choose to PAY TO PLAY?

Wow that's only 15. That 16 is a tough number:D
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In Munsterlanders defense, pay to play hunting could be a culprit in the declining numbers of hunters in this country. I'm only 26 years old and I know I haven't seen it all and definitely don't know everything but how many of you older guys had to pay a farmer to hunt when you were a young man??? When the demand gets higher for high quality bird hunting because of loss of habitat so do the prices. And when prices go up why would any sane mid-west farmer want to get meager payments from the state for walk in hunting when he can lease to an outfitter who can get big-wig business men to pay up the ass to shoot a few wild chickens. It happened with waterfowl hunting where I grew up and now it's starting to happen with the pheasant hunting in Colorado too. If young people can't get out and hunt without spending an arm and a leg than they will never even know or care about CRP or why it's important to save wetlands. The U.S. is starting to look more and more like a lot of European countries where common folks can't afford to go hunting. WAKE UP!!!!!
 
nobody is complaining about how you & others spend there $$$ i say that in about every PAY TO PLAY post as well as uguide & haymaker are doing good things for pheasants with there land...

when guys say things like i PAY TO PLAY but isnt the memories worth it & the likes i say well its ur $$$ but it should not be PAY TO PLAY or its not worth making the memories... they say i dont care about how many birds i shoot its about the experience out in the fields but most people if they pay $$$ also like to bag birds as well or they would be hunting PUBLIC LAND & visiting long time friends after the hunt...

i never said any guy on this forum was a bad guy for PAYING TO PLAY or that the guides on-line were bad for guiding all i said is in highly commercialized hunting areas wear FEE hunting is the norm even locals who used to let folks hunt for free now have there hands out for $$$ because the guy up the road dose the same thing or u cant hunt it any longer because somebody leased it up for a maybe hunt someday... its just a bummer... i know folks in western KS dont care for that type of thing...

i think i said i wish i could afford it but dont have deep enough pockets for the PAY TO PLAY thing & couldnt imagine paying what guides in SD ask for a 3 day PAY TO PLAY hunt & got called poor & liberal for that & loving to hunt public lands & wishing more was available to public land hunters...

in many parts of SD if it was not for guides & PAY TO PLAY there would not be pheasant so true... but in some areas there is core habitat & on public lands & there will always be pheasants there but it gets hammered to hell every day of the season so them birds learn to move onto that private or PAY TO PLAY lands wear they do not get disturbed day in & day out... thats what many PAY TO PLAY for as well as the memories & friends they see every year... but not many can justify flying in & hunting SD for no shots at pheasants i think a major reason guys choose the PAY TO PLAY route is to be sure there are some pheasants to be had wear they hunt & thats not a worry...

you worked ur A** off 30 saterdays carptom1 more power to you man maybe next year ill have to do the same??? but i cant imagine paying what some do for a guided pheasant hunt in SD id just go get a new gun or something???

best of luck to you on your hunts fee or not happy safe hunting this season... i wont post on the PAY TO PLAY thing here unless its more of the u must PAY TO PLAY to make memories type thing thats B/S
 
Frangler said:
In Munsterlanders defense, pay to play hunting could be a culprit in the declining numbers of hunters in this country. I'm only 26 years old and I know I haven't seen it all and definitely don't know everything but how many of you older guys had to pay a farmer to hunt when you were a young man??? When the demand gets higher for high quality bird hunting because of loss of habitat so do the prices. And when prices go up why would any sane mid-west farmer want to get meager payments from the state for walk in hunting when he can lease to an outfitter who can get big-wig business men to pay up the ass to shoot a few wild chickens. It happened with waterfowl hunting where I grew up and now it's starting to happen with the pheasant hunting in Colorado too. If young people can't get out and hunt without spending an arm and a leg than they will never even know or care about CRP or why it's important to save wetlands. The U.S. is starting to look more and more like a lot of European countries where common folks can't afford to go hunting. WAKE UP!!!!!
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I do see the other side of this. I am 50. There is waaaay more public hunting today than there ever was when I was a kid. I grew up hunting pheasants in Norton Kansas. We traveled there from KC to hunt every opening weekend. It was 100 bucks a man, for 3 days of hunting, a shared bed, and two poorly cooked meals by a farmers wife. There were usually 12-15 of us so after minimal expenses he probably netted 1300 or so. Lot of money in the 70's. This is not a new thing, been going on for years. Later we did the same in SD. Corporate farms and farming practices are much more of a threat to hunting than anything else. Comparing our hunting to England is not a fair comparison. Hunting there has always been for the elite.
 
If you guys keep talking about PAY TO PLAY so much that NY escorts guy that hits us on here is going to get the wrong impression move shop to SD.:D
 
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