New Drain Tiling Legislation Proposed for SD

This would not be a bad thing Travis as only when we can sit in the producers chair and see things from his perspective can we truly begin to make the case for change from a point of non-ignorant reasoning.

I took over farming my own farm ground for 1 reason. Because the renters farming system and my farm system we always at conflict with each other.

Turns out I can probably make more than by cash renting it but that was not the main reason.

I did it because:

1. I could
2. I like freedom
3. Aligned with my goals, objectives and vision
4. Was smart business
5. Oh yeah, and it would produce more friendly to pheasants.

Chris I have no problem with your system what so ever. I am glad it works for you. The problem is people look at your system and say well why can't everyone make that much pheasant friendly habitat. They miss the point that part of the reason you can make it work is because you charge people to hunt. Which I have no problem with what so ever, but it is part of the equation.
 
Chris I have no problem with your system what so ever. I am glad it works for you. The problem is people look at your system and say well why can't everyone make that much pheasant friendly habitat. They miss the point that part of the reason you can make it work is because you charge people to hunt. Which I have no problem with what so ever, but it is part of the equation.

I am thinking the free system is public lands and the pay system is all about private lands.

If the pay system don't even work on private lands how can we talk about keeping conservation measures on the ground with the free system thinkers?

Pay hunters are the missing conservation subsidy in the private land system. Either that or look to the taxpayer to make up the difference.

That's Allstates stand.....
 
I am thinking the free system is public lands and the pay system is all about private lands.

If the pay system don't even work on private lands how can we talk about keeping conservation measures on the ground with the free system thinkers?

Pay hunters are the missing conservation subsidy in the private land system. Either that or look to the taxpayer to make up the difference.

That's Allstates stand.....

Edit(I wasn't trying to quote you Chris but it did....Sorry about that. I wasn't referring to you but just anybody can answer this question.


One question, why are things so money orientated out there vs up in the northern parts of Minnesota? Kind of tough to swallow when we don't operate like that. We operate with a cup of coffee or a cold beer. Out there it's always about the Benjamen's.
 
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Edit(I wasn't trying to quote you Chris but it did....Sorry about that. I wasn't referring to you but just anybody can answer this question.


One question, why are things so money orientated out there vs up in the northern parts of Minnesota? Kind of tough to swallow when we don't operate like that. We operate with a cup of coffee or a cold beer. Out there it's always about the Benjamen's.

I will take a shot at this. When I started farming I rented land for 4 dollars an acre. I could have bought all the land I could handle for $100 an acre. Now rent is over $100 dollars an acre. I have three kids that would like to do something on the farm but I don't have enough for the three of them the way things are now. If this place is going to continue after me we need to find ways to add income. We are raising grass fed beef, we have the hunting enterprize and 2 of the kids are renting farmland from me trying to start that. I am not a big land buyer but I want be in posistion to be able to buy a quarter if the right one becomes available. Our family has been here over 100 years and I am going to try to make it possible they can be here another 100. That takes money, profit, making more than we spend. I liked it the way it used to be and am concerned about the future but all I can do is try to be in position to prosper.
 
Fair question Onpoint.

Everyones response will be a little different based on their circumstances.

One variable could be cropland vs. woodland.

One other factor is that the northern 2/3 of MN has a huge percentage of open lands either in state, federal, tax forfeture, etc. etc.

But when trophy ruffed grouse hunting goes viral on facebook and twitter WATCH OUT! That could all change very quickly. Land prices in northern MN will go up, you won't be able to get a hotel room anywhere, all your relatives will want to come and hunt, your fuse will start to grow short, the guys that used to come up there and hunt for nothing will call you greedy , and so on and so on.

I mean no offense to anyone on this but it is really 10th grade economics. Simple supply and demand and what people value and are willing to pay a dollar for.
 
Fair question Onpoint.

Everyones response will be a little different based on their circumstances.

One variable could be cropland vs. woodland.

One other factor is that the northern 2/3 of MN has a huge percentage of open lands either in state, federal, tax forfeture, etc. etc.

But when trophy ruffed grouse hunting goes viral on facebook and twitter WATCH OUT! That could all change very quickly. Land prices in northern MN will go up, you won't be able to get a hotel room anywhere, all your relatives will want to come and hunt, your fuse will start to grow short, the guys that used to come up there and hunt for nothing will call you greedy , and so on and so on.

I mean no offense to anyone on this but it is really 10th grade economics. Simple supply and demand and what people value and are willing to pay a dollar for.

Just maybe this leads us to the reason for the sweeping legislation that is blowing across the country to stop anymore land becoming public(No net gain on public land). There are those that want to prevent what's going on in northern Minnesota. Too much free hunting and land access. They don't want that in their country. Why pay for what you can get free is their idea.
 
Just maybe this leads us to the reason for the sweeping legislation that is blowing across the country to stop anymore land becoming public(No net gain on public land). There are those that want to prevent what's going on in northern Minnesota. Too much free hunting and land access. They don't want that in their country. Why pay for what you can get free is their idea.

That seems like the same bogus legislation as the one in SD trying to prevent landowners from signing perpetual easements. Leave the free market systems alone.
 
That seems like the same bogus legislation as the one in SD trying to prevent landowners from signing perpetual easements. Leave the free market systems alone.

Here's a few good reads on this matter. I believe I have posted some of this before but it chaps my hide so bad. IMO, it's worth reposting over and over.

http://www.ducks.org/news-media/ducks-unlimited-says-north-dakota-ignoring-private-property-rights

http://www.sdwf.org/OutofDoors/2009/Out_of_DoorsMarch2009.pdf


Prime hunting land is target for 'no net gain' debate in west central Minn.

By: Tom Cherveny, West Central Tribune / MCT
Published April 30, 2011, 07:12 PM
http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/202058/

LAKE JOHANNA TOWNSHIP, Pope County - Kurt Nelson has 80 acres of land in the southeast corner of Pope County that are the kind often touted in the classified ads of outdoor publications as "prime hunting acres."

Last winter he dished out more than 3,000 bushels of corn to pheasants and deer just outside the back door of his home here.

"I'm too busy feeding them to hunt them,' laughed Nelson, a conservation officer with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources.

This spring he's watching waterfowl splash in the four-acre wetland he restored, and anticipating the green-up. A prescribed burn conducted a couple of years ago has revived a wide-range of native prairie plants on much of the land. He knows it will soon be shooting forth a fireworks display of colorful flowers through the warm months ahead.

Part of the property holds natural fens, where the water table furnishes moisture to plants from below. There is a glacial esker creating a prominent ridge covered by oak trees, a haven for deer.

Mud Creek, arguably the clearest running water in Pope County and its only designated trout stream, cuts a path through a corner of the land.

A good portion of the land had been grazed until he bought it several years ago. Nelson feels its use for agriculture does more harm than good. "Put a cow in here and it would sink to its belly,' he said.

He kept goats for a while, and even they wouldn't venture beyond a baseball diamond-sized island of dry ground.

It's what he considers a prime location for a public hunting area, and that's his intention. The Pope County chapter of Pheasants Forever has an agreement to purchase roughly 75 of the 80 acres from Nelson, with plans to transfer those acres to the state of Minnesota for use as a public hunting area.

Perfect location for a controversy too, Nelson has since discovered.

By a three-to-two vote, the Pope County Board of Commissioners on April 5 made known their opposition to turning the land over to the state, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources in particular.

Pope County is among a number of counties in the state to have adopted a "no net gain of state-owned land,' explained Paul Gerde, a Pope County commissioner who represents the southeast corner of the county.

It's similar to the bill State Representative Steve Drazkowski, R-Mazeppa, has introduced in the Minnesota legislature.

There's a strong sentiment among many that the state owns more land than it should. Taking more land off the tax rolls harms local governments, according to Gerde.

If the state owns the property, it will pay Pope County an annual fee equal to three fourths of one percent of the appraised value of the land. In this case, that will represent a greater annual payment than Nelson now pays in property taxes because the appraised value is greater than its current assessment, Nelson pointed out.

Five years after it becomes public land, it will be re-assessed and that value will likely reduce the payment in lieu of taxes, resulting in less revenue to the county, counters Gerde.

But for Gerde, the bigger issue is economics. There are lots of parcels in Pope County that are desired for habitat and hunting opportunities, but these are also properties where people can start small farming or other operations, he explained.

"It's in the best interest of the county to have private individuals on this property contributing to our local economy,' said Gerde.

There's more economic activity when people are living on the land, whether they've set up a small shop, hobby farm or a productive farm, he said.

He also believes there is enough public hunting land available now in the county, adding that it appears the number of hunters is starting to decline.

Gerde said the county has received resolutions of support from the Minnesota Corn and Soybean Growers and Cattlemen's Associations for its "no net' lands policy.

The local chapter of Pheasants Forever has made known its feelings too. In a letter published earlier in the Pope County Tribune of Glenwood, it pointed out that only four percent or 18,732 acres of land in the county is public. That includes the Glacial Lakes State Park and the Nature Conservancy's Ordway Prairie.

The chapter argues that public lands for hunting are a "definite plus' to the Pope County economy.

A recent study by the University of Minnesota found a $4 return in recreation dollars spent for every $1 invested in land, according to Matt Holland, senior field coordinator with Pheasants Forever in New London.

"There are tremendous benefits in public land, and not just for wildlife and habitat,' said Holland. Public lands offer hunting and other recreational opportunities for local residents, and represent an important quality of life issue beyond the economic benefits they offer, he explained.

He also points out that there is a huge disparity in the availability of public lands. In some northern, forested counties, public lands can represent more than one-half the land base. In farm country, public lands represent usually as little as two, three or four percent of the land base.

Nelson believes there is also an underlying property rights issue at stake for him as a property owner. He asks -- and his attorney has posed the question as well -- whether the county can interfere with the potential sale of his property by opposing its transfer to another party.

Gerde said the county isn't looking to stop the sale: Nelson is free to sell to Pheasants Forever.

He also points out that the county would not oppose the sale if the state would put a like amount of public land up for sale to private ownership.

Most of all, he said the county is making the point that it believes the state owns enough public land. Gerde would also like to see more open communication with the DNR, Nature Conservancy and other public entities about their intentions in the county.

As for Nelson, he said the sale is basically on hold.

He's had inquiries from individuals who are looking to own their own hunting land. Nelson said he feels strongly that this land is worth protecting for public use and for future generations, and that's what he wants to assure.

Holland said Pheasants Forever recognizes that there are legitimate concerns from both sides of the issue, and hopes the right balance can be struck to address all of the needs.

Resolution in place in

at least dozen counties

It's not known how many counties have adopted a "no net gain of public lands' resolution, but a survey conducted by the Minnesota Association of Counties gives some idea.

The association surveyed county administrators and coordinators in February 2001 as to whether or not their counties had passed a "no net gain of public lands' resolution.

The association reports that 58 counties responded, with 12 indicating that they had. Those counties are: Beltrami, Fillmore, Itasca, Kittson, Lake, Lake of the Woods, Pennington, Polk, Red Lake, Roseau, St. Louis and Traverse.

Distributed by McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.

Kind of funny(not really), if you wanted to sell your place to a company that wants to build say..a ethanol plant. I doubt you would have much problem but try and sell it to someone/organization who would turn it into public hunting/habitat/wildlife property..oh hell no.

Big power and money at work. They are who we need to be worried about and they have elected officials bought off from the local level on up.
 
I'm no expert but what i've been told is that the problem with tiling is when you have producers using to much fertilizer it gets saturated into the soil and then ends up in the streams. Which is what seems to be happing here in Ohio. Lots and lots of tile have been put in and farmers are using far more fertilzer than they need to in attempt to maximize yields and it may hurt them in the near future with the government threating to step in and regulate fertizer use to stop the algae blooms. I know we had to submit to soil and water what was put on a field we used to rent out when the CRP went in and they said the farmer should never have put that much fertilizer down.
 
I just stumbled onto another reason a lot of tile is going in but may come to an end.

the 179 tax deduction where if tile is normally depreciable over long period like 20 years with 179 last two years you could write the whole caboodle off in 1 year.

As far as i know they are ending that in 2013. Similar to the pole shed deal where you could write the whole thing off in 1 year.
 
Lots and lots of tile have been put in and farmers are using far more fertilzer than they need to in attempt to maximize yields and it may hurt them in the near future with the government threating to step in and regulate fertizer use to stop the algae blooms. I know we had to submit to soil and water what was put on a field we used to rent out when the CRP went in and they said the farmer should never have put that much fertilizer down.

Business owners don't make it too long by wasting money. It is a bit of a stretch to make a generalization based on Your one experience.
 
I just stumbled onto another reason a lot of tile is going in but may come to an end.

the 179 tax deduction where if tile is normally depreciable over long period like 20 years with 179 last two years you could write the whole caboodle off in 1 year.

As far as i know they are ending that in 2013. Similar to the pole shed deal where you could write the whole thing off in 1 year.

That would be true that is the same deduction business owners in a variety of fields can take. That is not just an ag deduction.
 
Maybe ask these folks what they think about tiling 1,000's of acres of farmland and draining them into Devils Lake.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...5.930.0j8.8.0...0.0...1ac.1.4.img.vqcUqaO0aqo

Their farms were literately stolen from them. Folks need to realize that draining the water off your property on to others. Then those folks doing the same thing. Eventually leads to real sorrow for others down steam. IMO, those people have every right to go after those who are the cause of the problem up stream.
 
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Maybe ask these folks what they think about tiling 1,000's of acres of farmland and draining them into Devils Lake.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...5.930.0j8.8.0...0.0...1ac.1.4.img.vqcUqaO0aqo

Their farms were literately stolen from them. Folks need to realize that draining the water off your property on to others. Then those folks doing the same thing. Eventually leads to real sorrow for others down steam. IMO, those people have every right to go after those who are the cause of the problem up stream.

You are kidding right? Water all eventually goes downstream. I
 
You are kidding right? Water all eventually goes downstream. I

If so, why all the drain tile?

Maybe explain all the farms lost to Devils Lake expanding 100's of times it's size and no sign of a end to it's expansion.

Maybe why the Red River floods every year now in the spring?
 
That would be true that is the same deduction business owners in a variety of fields can take. That is not just an ag deduction.

Like Onpoint mentions the one major difference in the tile write-off is it could be a tax incentive for an ecological disaster. Building an Ag pole shed and writing it off in 1 year ....not so much.

Not saying all tile is eco unfriendly but there are more eco consequences with tile that with other write-offs. Guess the US is pumping 40,000 lbs of Phos into Lake Winnipeg each day making it the new "dead-zone" of the north.

Just sayin.
 
Tile in NE South Dakota

Some farmers are doing it and some are not. The one part of tiling that hurts my head is that the farmers around us that are tiling are outletting the water in the road ditches. If you have driven down some of the county roads when it's wet it's a bad situation. The roads are clay with some gravel and a topping of mostly Sand due to gravel costs over the past 15 years. You see semi's stuck in the middle of the road because they just sink into the clay. Now that very little water sits in the low spots in the field and it all ends up in the ditch it's made the road conditions even worse.

I know to tile or not to tile is a business decision with conservation concerns.
Not sure what I would do if in the same situation as a Farmer paying $4.00 deisel and all the other expensives associated with putting in and taking out a crop...
 
It is what it is - it's always about the money.

Tile everything for another profit making acre.

Pump the aquifers dry for another profitable year.

Drain the Colorado River dry for another dollar.

Spill contaminated water over half of ND for better profits.

Turn Alberta Province into a gigantic sludge pond to fill the corporate treasury.

Destroy the Gulf Of Mexico fisheries with ag runoff for another 20 bushels/acre.

And then, when it comes reckoning time, whine: The g'mint needs to DO SOMETHING!!!

I'm glad that Homo Sapiens is a self destructing species. A hundred or so years from now we will be gone. And the Earth will be a better place, back in balance.

Fill your bellies while you can gents.
 
:10sign::cheers::thumbsup:
It is what it is - it's always about the money.

Tile everything for another profit making acre.

Pump the aquifers dry for another profitable year.

Drain the Colorado River dry for another dollar.

Spill contaminated water over half of ND for better profits.

Turn Alberta Province into a gigantic sludge pond to fill the corporate treasury.

Destroy the Gulf Of Mexico fisheries with ag runoff for another 20 bushels/acre.

And then, when it comes reckoning time, whine: The g'mint needs to DO SOMETHING!!!

I'm glad that Homo Sapiens is a self destructing species. A hundred or so years from now we will be gone. And the Earth will be a better place, back in balance.

Fill your bellies while you can gents.
 
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