Need some burn advice

UGUIDE

UGUIDE

Active member
Am looking to do controlled burn on some of my acres in SD. There isn't much snow right now and we are wondering if anybody ever does burns in winter? I suppose there is some benefit lost because ground would be frozen and some of the heat/germination would not take place.

Any suggestions/ideas/best practices as far as what climate conditions are ideal for burn.
 
Great question, unfortunatley I have no idea.. I look forward to seeing some knowledge posted as I too would like to know...
 
Not sure if they were accidentally set, but I saw 2 different pastures buring on my way back from W KS this past weekend. My wife and I both thought that it was very early to be burning, but whatever. Prarie Drifter may have some advice on this subject. I can ask a couple of local farmers to see what the consequences of burning this early are. I'll post their responses if there aren't already some informative posts from people with experience by tomorrow.
 
I don't know if enough of the fescue would actually burn, you know? Is there some snow still on the ground? I burned my 1/4 about 3 years ago in late April, and it was kind of wet at the time, and I know that some of the vegetation didn't totally burn.
 
I don't know what the normal protocol is for SD, but here are the questions and problems. What grass species are you burning for and what species are you burning against? Are there brush problems? What are your goals? What is the soil type? When does it green up usually? How much slope does the ground have?

Problems: Burning this early exposes your soil to excessive erosion and desication. Turning the soil black heats it up, dries it out, and lets the sun, wind, and rain do bad things to it. Usually you burn with a full soil profile of water a couple of weeks prior to the normal greenup date for the grass you are burning for. In Kansas, we burn early to encourage forbs and set back the grass. As forbs germinate prior to NWSG greenup, they get a competitive advantage and increase their % in the canopy while the grass gets to suck hind tit. We burn late to decrease woody species and encourage NWSG. The growth points of NWSG are at the surface of the soil and are not significantly affected by the burn even if they have already sprouted a couple of inches. If you're managing cool season grasses, completely different methods are needed.
 
I have a friend that needs burn 40 acres in his 1/4 this year. Are there groups that do this? How does one go about it?
 
Depending on adjoining acres and hazards, 40 could be easy or very difficult. It's best to have experienced burn boss at the very least. The local extension should be of some help as well and the NRCS. Some southern states have formed burning cooperatives you can join to get the experience, tools, and help needed. Always check with the local fire department about laws/permits required. Make a written plan, know what weather conditions are needed, and understand the hazards. More time should be spent preparing than it takes to do the burn.
 
Prairie Drifter said:
I don't know what the normal protocol is for SD, but here are the questions and problems. What grass species are you burning for and what species are you burning against? Are there brush problems? What are your goals? What is the soil type? When does it green up usually? How much slope does the ground have?

PD, great questions. We have loamy soils. 3 targeted areas to burn would be classified as seasonal wetlands or sloughs. Burn would be to remove excess litter and just rejuvinate whatever is native there and setback any weed competition.

Other burn targets are plots of newer CRP that has NWSG planted and the burn should seek to release this. There is no snow on ground currently. the natives start growing when sopils temps hit 70 around June 1. Other greenup can occur much earlier than that. It sounds like I need to push back to burns on CRP for benefit to NWSG.

Not sure about timing of sloughs. Looking for more info. Thanks.

PS. No woody cover problems at all.
Click to expand...
 
Prairie Drifter said:
Make a written plan, know what weather conditions are needed, and understand the hazards. More time should be spent preparing than it takes to do the burn.
Click to expand...

That is the one area I may be able to help in.. I think I still have a burn plan on my PC at the office, I will check when I get back and post it up for others to use. It was composed for some of the MI goverment agencies to use in their burning. It gives you an agenda with fill in the blanks areas..

Steve
 
Uguide, on the wetlands, a lot depends on when you can dry them out. If residual water is left in the basin or if the plants themselves aren't completely dry, what you'll get is a pseudo crown fire where it will run through the tops of the plants leaving 1-2 feet of stubble and not maximize what you were after. Where they are normally wet areas anyway, drying them out by being black is less of a concern. You don't want them blowing though. Your tighter soils allow you some more flexibility over sand, but some of that is relative in your drier clime. Check with your NRCS office about normal burn dates and/or their restriction dates. That may not leave you much flexibility on timing on CRP. If it isn't CRP and is similar grass, you may want to go earlier if it is mature and lacking the desired forbs.
 
Looks like maybe a 2 stage approach would be best. The sloughs are pretty dry right now but I am afraid to burn that good cover until birds can freelance out into other cover when better weather permits (March 1 ish).

So do the sloughs first and the grasses/CRP 2nd. Even though most of these plots are NWSG I'd probably do earlier for 2 reasons. Get some forbs going and also let them get some regrowth and be undisturbed for nesting.

Thanks PD.
 
I did speak to a cattleman with many years experience managing grasslands, but he manages them for cows, not wildlife! He told me in much less sophisticated words some of what PD is saying. He basically said, "what is it you're after?" If you want to get rid of the trees, let it grow another year so you'll have more fuel for a hotter fire. He also said that waiting a little while would allow your grass' roots to strengthen and help keep your soil in place. I'll get out of this conversation now because I don't think any of my resources are as knowledgable as PD. Good luck in your ventures:thumbsup:
 
The thing I worry about as far as burning off wetlands. Grass Cattails etc is the loss of habitat now. Nesting areas, cover for broods. Regrowth won't be in time for Spring nesting. It will be Summer before bird habitat is restored. Maybe spot burn? Still, I wouldn't want to concentrate birds, makes it easier for the predators.
 
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Well I can't get my Word Doc. for the Prescribed Burn Plan to stick.. Send me an e-mail and I will return it back to you if you want the copy. Here is a pasted version without all the spots for write in and check off... strnadhome@aol.com


PRESCRIBED BURN PLAN

Site Name: County:
Size of unit: acres Projected Date:

Description of area (include all fuel types present):

Objectives:

History of previous burns (dates, results, etc.):

Weather Conditions for Burn:
Wind Velocity: mph; Wind Direction: Relative Humidity: %
Temperature: Days Since Rain: Time of Year:
Other:

EQUIPMENT NEEDS

BURNING EQUIPMENT SAFETY EQUIPMENT
Number Item Number Item
Flappers Helmets
Rakes Gloves
Drip Torches Goggles
Water Packs Radios
Matches Nomex Clothes
Water Tank Weather Kits
Drip Torch Fuel Barricades
Brush Cutter Signs
Brush Cutter Fuel
Other

BURN CREW
Fire Boss: Crew Size required: persons.

Sources of crew:

Division of Labor (e.g. ignition, control or holding, etc.)


PERMITS, NOTIFICATIONS, SAFETY

PERMITS REQUIRED:

Burning Variance

Agency Individual granting permit, phone Date granted



NOTIFICATIONS: (e.g. fire departments, county sheriff, utility companies, etc.)
Agency Individual to notify, phone Date notified



SAFETY:
Fire fighting:
First aid:
Police or Sheriff:
Traffic control and/or public safety consideration:

Contact list:
Other:

PUBLICITY
Neighbors notified: Reception (e.g. cordial, neutral, hostile):
Contact with news services:

FIRING TECHNIQUES & PREPARATIONS

Attach a diagram showing ignition sequence, equipment and crew placement, and other important information. Identify the following information: Plan Scale, Burn Block, Firebreaks, North Firing techniques projected. Effects of change in wind direction during the burning.

Fire Breaks: (see diagram)
Position Method Date(s) constructed Completed




Plan Prepared By: Date:
Reviewed by Project Manager: Date:
Reviewed by Property Owner: Date:
 
UGUIDE, any updates on what you found out on burning locally? Have you burned anything yet? We didn't get into equipment or preparation too far, where are you at there?
 
PD, thanks for checking in. We got a green light to burn so it is just a matter of resources, conditions prep and then burn.

I talked to my guy there recently but it was just to invite him Turkey hunting with me in WI.

My hunch is that the best time to burn would be right at green up. I plan to be out there around first of April to clip food plots and plow under and I will have a better handle on what the burn prospects look like.

If you have any prep or equipment suggestions I am all ears.
 
I like disked fire breaks. They double as a brood rearing strip and make the work on burn day a lot easier. If not that, I like to mow in the fall and let the cool season grass green up in the mowed strip to act as a deterrent to fire. You just about have to have a drip torch. The mix is 2/3 diesel and 1/3 gasoline or 100% kerosine. One of the rules is that you want to have straight firelines, no points, gaps, or crooks. Those tend to make vortexes and mini head fires more probable. Always have 1 more sprayer than you need. They have a renowned reputation of going down when you need them the most. Something that can put out more than 10 Gallons/minute at more than 150 psi is good. The ATV sprayers are good for mop up, but don't depend on them for control. A transfer pump in a neighboring pond or other water source will save your butt more than anything. Get some experience on the team. That can be fickle. Some folks brag of experience, but they lose fires regularly. Be careful there. Flappers, rakes, shovels, a chainsaw, tow chains, and a dependable 4X4 help. Goggles, nomex, gloves, pliers, and nonflamable clothing get my vote. Check your weather conditions the morning of the burn. Make sure they are stable for the entire day. Warn the neighbors and call the fire department. Keep the cel phone handy. Patrol the fire for several hours after, especially if the fire breaks aren't disked.
 
PD, my team is the local voluneteer fire department of neighboring town and they have conducted several burns and come out when other fires are out of control. I have good faith they they will have "the right stuff".

That for the tips, tricks and tactics.
 
Every group is different, my own experience with the local fire department here is that they are a lot better at putting out fires than they are at managing them. Be sure to start in the downwind corner and always light into the wind. With their equipment, the burn should be a breeze!
 
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