Need help with dog breed!

S

sas

Member
Before you conclude that I am a perfect idiot for asking this question please remember that no one is perfect.

Over the past 50 years I have probably raised, trained, hunted over 100 dogs.
At this point in my life I am looking for a dog with certain breed characteristics. Yes, I realize that each dog is an individual but all breeds have some certain general characteristics that define them all. I have had Pointers, Setter, Labs, Pointing Labs, Brittanies and they come in all shapes and sizes, temperment, etc. But as I have matured my hunting style has changed and I am looking for a new breed.

I am looking for a pointing dog that hunts extremely close (25-35yds) without being hacked to death. I would prefer a large dog with light colored coat. Maybe the temperment of a Lab. I thought a pointing Lab was the answer but they are just not overall endowed with 100% pointing instinct at this point. Yes, I know there are some very fine ones but I have one with the bluest of blood and he just isn't going to work out. I want a dog that is a definite pointing breed. In other words, probably ranges like a flusher but points instead. Yes, I am looking for a little easier shot. I need all the help I can get.

Some of you that own some of the lesser known breeds can probably direct me to the right one. If you will PM me with a time to call I will call you and would love to talk about it.

I appreciate any responses.
 
sas, I think I know the perfect breed for you. The French Spaniel. They are a rare breed and the only breeder I am aware of in the states is Paul Fischenich with Minnesota French Spaniels. Here is his web site:
http://minnesotafrenchspaniels.com/
I hunted with Paul and a few of his dogs a couple years ago. They are a beautiful breed that hunt at a little slower pace, close to the hunter and they point. In a lot of ways they look like a long legged Springer with an undocked tail. I would advise you to do some research on them and even give Paul Fischenich a call. When I was looking for a dog in 2008 I came very close to buying one of Paul's pups but I decided to stay with another Brittany.
There are a number of French Spaniel breeders in Canada but Paul would know more than anyone in the states about this breed. If you want to visit with me shoot me a PM and I'll give you my phone number.
Good luck and let me know what you think about the French Spaniel and what you ultimately decide.
 
Look at a drent. Might be hard to find, but there are a few breeders here state side.
 
Why not just post that you are looking for a pointing dog that stays really close? I would think somebody out there has to have a close ranging dog for sale.

I got my GWP as a 6 month old from a field trialer who thought she didn't range far enough for field trials. It was win-win because her 50 yard range was fine with me.

If you're wanting something really specific like that, why not just look for an adult dog that has the characteristic you want instead of trying to find an entire breed of dog that you hope will give you a chance of getting what you want?

I am not "declaring you an idiot" or anything like that. Just curious why you need to find an entire breed of dog to do something that plenty of individual dogs do. I bet you could easily find a 30 yard dog of any breed under the sun if you looked.:thumbsup:
 
Cooperating birds help

Cassidy, My GSP, likes to roam, but then, that is why she finds the birds. If you pay attention, give her a whistle now and then, she hangs close enough..

This last weekend of the season, I let her get out in front, and damn, a bird flushed out of range.. brought her back and withing the next 50 yards, hard on point... this time, 3 roosters held.. it took me a bit to get there, but she held those birds right there for me.. managed to bag one of the 3..

Next field, she held another right at the point of the corner... was holding, holding, holding... then a damn truck came screaming by.. that bird was waiting for me also... And this the last weekend with wild birds that had been wary of hunter pressure from the whole season.

The deal is this.. if the bird holds, the GSP will do the same until you get there...

Goatman
 
if you have owned and trained Pointers, Setter, Labs, Pointing Labs, Brittanies
you should know that if you run the dogs when little in thick cover they never range that far when they get older.
I have a EP have owned setters and one GSP they never get out of gun range unless I ask them to. They seem happy to run within 30 to 40 yards
 
Toad said:
If you're wanting something really specific like that, why not just look for an adult dog that has the characteristic you want instead of trying to find an entire breed of dog that you hope will give you a chance of getting what you want?

I am not "declaring you an idiot" or anything like that. Just curious why you need to find an entire breed of dog to do something that plenty of individual dogs do. I bet you could easily find a 30 yard dog of any breed under the sun if you looked.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Twenty five -thirty yards is flushing dog range. Any FD worth his dog bones will give plenty of warning signs when he's on birds.

But that said, I would not be looking for a puppy, of any breed. Thats a crap shoot. Look for an adult dog whose range and pattern are already well established. You should be able to find just such a dog from among any of the more popular PD breeds ie. ES, Britts, GSPs etc. Many more dogs to chose from.

BTW, sorry about yr PL. But its sadly, a familiar story. A hunting pal of mine paid $2000 for a 8 wk old "Pointing Lab" puppy. "Bred in The Purple". And that *&%#* dog hasnt laid down a decent point in 5 years!:rolleyes:

NB
 
Come on guys, let's focus on what sas wants. Here is the criteria he laid down:

1. Pointing Breed
2. Hunts close (25-35 yds.), ranges like a flusher but points
3. A larger dog
4. Light colored coat
5. Temperment of a Lab

Make breed fit those 5 criteria.

Off hand the French Spaniel is the one that meets all 5.

FrenchSpaniel3.jpg
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I know you said a larger dog but you might take a look at the Braque Francais. They look like a small GSP but with some interesting characteristics. You can not be heavy handed with this breed but they mature quick in their hunting abilities. On the downside there are only 2 breeders in the states that I know of.
 
Clumber Spaniel

Dakotazeb said:
Come on guys, let's focus on what sas wants. Here is the criteria he laid down:

1. Pointing Breed
2. Hunts close (25-35 yds.), ranges like a flusher but points
3. A larger dog
4. Light colored coat
5. Temperment of a Lab

Make breed fit those 5 criteria.
Click to expand...
excerpts from the Clumber Spaniel Club of America

1. a Clumber approaches every bird as if it is a cripple that he is very intent on catching. If the bird is moving, he will track it intently. If the bird stays on the nest or stops in heavy cover. He will slow down as he approaches it, stalking it like a cat. When he is very close to the bird, he will often stop in order to locate the bird precisely; They often exhibit an "English style, hesitation flush."

2. the Clumber was developed to use his nose more than his feet; Clumbers were developed to hunt at a trot or a pace

3. The Clumber is rectangular in shape possessing massive bone structure and has the appearance of great power. The ideal height for dogs is 18 to 20 inches at the withers and for bitches is 17 to 19 inches at the withers. The ideal length to height is 11 to 9 measured from the withers to the base of the tail and from the floor to the withers. Dogs weigh between 70 and 85 pounds and bitches weigh between 55 and 70 pounds.

4. The Clumber is primarily a white dog with lemon color or orange color marking

5. The Clumber Spaniel is a gentle, loyal and affectionate dog. He possesses an intrinsic desire to please. An intelligent and independent thinker, he displays determination and a strong sense of purpose while at work.

Nothing portrays a good Clumber’s attitude towards birds better than the word “intense”!

pretty darn close - 5 for 5, maybe, maybe not???
 
Dakotazeb said:
1. Pointing Breed
2. Hunts close (25-35 yds.), ranges like a flusher but points
3. A larger dog
4. Light colored coat
5. Temperment of a Lab

Make breed fit those 5 criteria.
Click to expand...
Here is another dog you might want to think about

PudelPointer fits most of these criterias excecpt for the light coated color
I believe this person below he can tell you more about the breed. He has help me out when I had questions. good luck on your search.

Buck Blackman @ 605-543-5380 bjblack@alliancecom.net in Lyons South Dakota.
 
been hunting with pointing dogs since 1971- if you have trained and had as many dogs as you state- it's really easy to make any pointing dog into a bootpolisher- buy the best bred pointing dog from the finest FT lines- from 7 weeks old never let it get 30' from you- you do want the outstanding nose right
 
Thanks to all who have responded to my search, especially Dakotazeb who did a better job of describing the search than I did.

You guys who are 40, plus or minus, probably have a harder time understanding what I am after than my generation, (70+). I wouldn't have owned a dog like this 30 yrs ago. Bootpolisher, plodder, stumblebum, etc wasn't fit to take hunting.

But a close working dog can be just as quick and snappy as a big runner. I remember the day it was pretty special watching that big runner head over the hill into the sunset. And it still is pretty.

I hunt with a guy who has Pointers and they are a sight to behold, and broke solid. But, the minute they start getting birdy out there 100 yds away he has to make haste to get there before the birds flush. And I think it is natural for a hard charging dog to start moving on out when they are not finding birds. Or it is hack, hack, hack, beep, beep, beep. Now before someone calls my hand I know there are exceptions.

But I can bag just as many birds, where I hunt, with a close ranging dog with a good nose. When the birds are moving you are going to cross their trail and then it is up to the dog and the shooter.

So, please continue the replies and I wish you all a good 9 months.
 
sas i know you want a bigger dog but from our conversation on the phone last night you may want to consider going with a couple of the breeds we talked about just worth a shot
 
sas, I hear you about the age thing. I'm not far behind you as I qualify for medicare in April. I wonder at times how long I can keep up behind my Brittanies but I love them out there 100 yds. and they will hold point until I get there and I enjoy running the NSTRA trials with my younger Britt. If I'm still in the field when my younger dog passes I'll be looking for the kind of dog you are seeking and I'll be talking to Paul about a French Spaniel.
 
Mr Hyde said:
Here is another dog you might want to think about

PudelPointer fits most of these criterias excecpt for the light coated color
I believe this person below he can tell you more about the breed. He has help me out when I had questions. good luck on your search.

Buck Blackman @ 605-543-5380 bjblack@alliancecom.net in Lyons South Dakota.
Click to expand...

I would say a Pudelpointer will generally range a little further--50yds or more. Not to say some will want or be trained to work closer. They adapt to the cover as a general rule . Pudelpointers as most of the versitile breeds are fine in the water also. The Small Munsterlander is in the same category. The only thing I do not like out of the many I have seen in the field and at NAVHDA events is their intensity on point ie flagging (tailwagging).
A Griffon could fit the bill also, tho they are becoming better developed range wise. Whatever you do, spend the extra $ to deal with a quality breeder that x-rays the dogs for hip problems and guarentees no genetic problems.
 
To be honest I don't know that you can say that there is a breed that will only hunt from 25-35 yards. There are breeds that will naturally work closer than others, but you could also find lines within the same breed of which you have already mentioned that would have tendencies to work closer.

That being said are you familiar with the Italian Spinone? or possibly Wirehaired Pointing Griffon? Those two breeds are larger (especially the Spinone) and are known to be a closer working breed. Below are some links to each breed to get a better understanding of their characteristics.

Spinone : http://faculty.css.edu/kmcgrew/spinone.html

Griffon, click on hunting: http://www.awpga.com/fr_wirehaired_pointing_griffons.htm
 
Try a Griffon . . . Buddy has one that hunts close & has an incredible nose.
 
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