My GSP hard mouthing

E

Emanuel2b

New member
Hey guys I got a 2 year old gsp. First season hunting him, when my trainer
trained my gsp he had such a soft mouth.. We shot like 10+ quails he retrieved perfect and on give command he gave up the bird. Our of the blue he started to chew the bird on his way back to me after a perfect retrieve.

My trainer suggested train him on force fetch.. I bought the dvd but mainly the dvd works on the dog holding the "object" and retrieving back the object.. My gsp retrieves rock solid. Only damn thing is he started to hard mouth birds. Like if I don't take the bird with in 6 seconds of him bringing me the bird he will chew it up.....

I've been tossing frozen quail and plaint fetch with him but seems to have no affect in the field.....

Any suggestion guys on how to fix this hard mouthing? Thanks for any advice.
 
Emanuel2b said:
Hey guys I got a 2 year old gsp. First season hunting him, when my trainer
trained my gsp he had such a soft mouth.. We shot like 10+ quails he retrieved perfect and on give command he gave up the bird. Our of the blue he started to chew the bird on his way back to me after a perfect retrieve.

My trainer suggested train him on force fetch.. I bought the dvd but mainly the dvd works on the dog holding the "object" and retrieving back the object.. My gsp retrieves rock solid. Only damn thing is he started to hard mouth birds. Like if I don't take the bird with in 6 seconds of him bringing me the bird he will chew it up.....

I've been tossing frozen quail and plaint fetch with him but seems to have no affect in the field.....

Any suggestion guys on how to fix this hard mouthing? Thanks for any advice.
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My 10 month old lab is FF'd, if he starts to mouth a bird I lightly slap the bottom of his lower jaw upwards and tell him "hold". Then I test the hold by tapping downwards on the object while telling him hold, normally doesn't take a lot of hold testing, and one pop upwards.
There is a lot more to the whole FF training but this is how I was shown to stop the mouthing. A pro trainer is the best bet in my book, would hate to have a dog start to associate bird or retrieving as unpleasant.

Good luck!
 
Emanuel2b said:
Hey guys I got a 2 year old gsp. First season hunting him, when my trainer
trained my gsp he had such a soft mouth.. We shot like 10+ quails he retrieved perfect and on give command he gave up the bird. Our of the blue he started to chew the bird on his way back to me after a perfect retrieve.

My trainer suggested train him on force fetch.. I bought the dvd but mainly the dvd works on the dog holding the "object" and retrieving back the object.. My gsp retrieves rock solid. Only damn thing is he started to hard mouth birds. Like if I don't take the bird with in 6 seconds of him bringing me the bird he will chew it up.....

I've been tossing frozen quail and plaint fetch with him but seems to have no affect in the field.....

Any suggestion guys on how to fix this hard mouthing? Thanks for any advice.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what your exact situation was but I've had similar issues with multiple dogs in the past. Both times it came down to a dog picking up a bird that was crippled and getting scratched or spurred. That incident turned them right into hard mouth dogs.
What worked for me was just using the large knobbed bumpers and wrapping a pheasant pelt around and instead of cutting the zip tie perfectly flush, leaving just a little piece. Between the knobs and the zip ties it made it uncomfortable for the dog to bite down hard.
Even with the discomfort, the excitement of the real feathers and fresh scent applied to the pelt the dog was always willing to go after that bumper. The muscle memory of the grip pressure used in the backyard or training field was applied to the hunting field and the issue ended fairly quickly.

Good Luck with your training.
 
Work on a fast recall and then demand he comes at a run with the bird, that will normally eliminate this.

Train the fast recall without the birds first, every time you call him if he lollygags along nick him to get him at a fast trot or better.

Once this is firmly in is head and he recalls like this faithfully you then intro back the retrieve and if he starts mouthing you nick him for the recall and
a firm " HERE!"

That way he wont associate it with the bird but he will think he's not coming fast enough.

This will cure it in 99% of the cases.
 
Some of the "hard mouth" happens when the dog arrives at the bird or has chased a cripple to submission. The dog is so worked up/angry/frustrated the dog will bite at the bird or take out a chunk.

Very aggressive dogs will often insure the bird is dead, before they commence with the retrieve.

Would assume it's back to basics if the dog consistently hard-mouths a bird, whatever the circumstance.
 
this sucks I can't afford 1400 to have him trained to FF. Like I said he is perfect at bringing the bird to hand as soon as the bird goes down, but if I don't lift the flap skin on his back leg and say give he will start chewing hard.
 
Emanuel2b said:
Hey guys I got a 2 year old gsp. First season hunting him, when my trainer
trained my gsp he had such a soft mouth.. We shot like 10+ quails he retrieved perfect and on give command he gave up the bird. Our of the blue he started to chew the bird on his way back to me after a perfect retrieve.

My trainer suggested train him on force fetch.. I bought the dvd but mainly the dvd works on the dog holding the "object" and retrieving back the object.. My gsp retrieves rock solid. Only damn thing is he started to hard mouth birds. Like if I don't take the bird with in 6 seconds of him bringing me the bird he will chew it up.....

I've been tossing frozen quail and plaint fetch with him but seems to have no affect in the field.....

Any suggestion guys on how to fix this hard mouthing? Thanks for any advice.
Click to expand...

your "trainer" should have FF the dog from the beginning....this is part of the job you paid for, or should have been....
 
hunter94 said:
your "trainer" should have FF the dog from the beginning....this is part of the job you paid for, or should have been....
Click to expand...

:10sign:

IMO, FF should be part of any bird dog training program. It's not so much about training the dog to bring something back to you - most dogs will do that anyway. It's about training the dog to deal with varying levels of pressure (ear pinch, collar pressure, swat on the butt, whatever), while responding to the command 100% of the time, period. The dog doesn't get to choose if/when/where to obey.

Are you sure your trainer said "train him on force fetch", or "work on force fetch"? The latter would make sense - a refresher on force fetch can solve all sorts of problems. If he's asking you to start FF from scratch, I would be asking why that wasn't part of the training to begin with.

:cheers:
Dave
 
Sounds like they only did a bird and gun intro with natural retreives type training and FF is the next piece of the puzzle.

$1400. Isn't that much when you consider you'll have you dog for at least 10 more years....pretty cheap investment.

Where are you from?
 
I'm in Socal. My trainer basically said I payed cheap for a stage 2 dog. I payed about 2800 total. He was telling that even I can do it my self and for me to train him to FF or he charges 1400 to FF for me.
 
Emanuel2b said:
I'm in Socal. My trainer basically said I payed cheap for a stage 2 dog. I payed about 2800 total. He was telling that even I can do it my self and for me to train him to FF or he charges 1400 to FF for me.
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2800.00 and I would expect him to be force fetched already. My dog will do it with quail or doves but not usually larger birds. The advice bobman gave you has worked for me. Get you some quail and force him off the chewing with multiple very short retrieves. If you nick, make very sure he knows why. I would be talking to the trainer about what stage two includes:confused:
 
I think $1,400 to put your dog through a FF program is way too much. It's not like the dog won't retrieve so the process should really be quite simple for an experienced trainer. I would think a good trainer would be able to complete the job in no more than 30 days. I realize things might be more expensive in SoCal but around here $600-800 would get it done.
 
Dakotazeb said:
I think $1,400 to put your dog through a FF program is way too much. It's not like the dog won't retrieve so the process should really be quite simple for an experienced trainer. I would think a good trainer would be able to complete the job in no more than 30 days. I realize things might be more expensive in SoCal but around here $600-800 would get it done.
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I agree with Zeb! If the dog has the basics $1400 is a lot of money to pay to teach one skill! I know they all build on each other, but ask around there are guys who can do it much cheaper than that.
 
Back to basics: reteaching the dog to "handle with care" anything he picks up in his mouth.

Lots of books written on this subject - you probably can do this yourself.

Wrapping barbed wire around the frozen bird has worked for some.

Retrieving a scrub brush.
 
Here's advice I've heard but not tried: get a round hairbrush - bristles all the way around, and play fetch with it.
 
I'm not a pro trainer, not even close! I would agree that $1400. Is way to much but if that's the only trainer around or the going rate out there it is what it is.

i think the brush idea wouldn't cure the problem, once the warm bird and feathers are in its mouth it will be right back to chewing.

Pm Gatzby, I don't know him but his posts are no nonsense and he seems very knowledgeable about dog training.
 
bobman said:
Work on a fast recall and then demand he comes at a run with the bird, that will normally eliminate this.

Train the fast recall without the birds first, every time you call him if he lollygags along nick him to get him at a fast trot or better.

Once this is firmly in is head and he recalls like this faithfully you then intro back the retrieve and if he starts mouthing you nick him for the recall and
a firm " HERE!"

That way he wont associate it with the bird but he will think he's not coming fast enough.

This will cure it in 99% of the cases.
Click to expand...

This is dead on!
I would add to not rush to take the bird. This will make it worse in the long run. I would tap dog on chin when he chomps, praise when he holds steady. After he holds quietly for a couple seconds take the bird and heap on the praise. Slowly extend the time he has to hold steady.

Is this dog collar conditioned?
There are a couple different drills to improve recall. They all require pressure, typically e collar pressure. Evan Graham's whoa post drill works good but takes a helper or a lot of coordination. I have a simpler drill if the dog is collar conditioned to "here". If the dog is not solid "my" drill could cause bolting though.
PS $1400 for FF is pretty fair in my part of the world. Depending on the dog FF is gonna take 4-8 weeks maybe more.... FF takes as long as it takes.
 
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