Midwest lab breeders

donkey

New member
Looking for a black lab, next spring. I know it's early but want to he able to do my homework on breeders. I want something smaller in size, preferably in 50-60 pound range. This dog will be hunted for pheasants, grouse and waterfowl. Not looking for a pointing lab. I live in Minnesota, but am willing to travel to SD, ND, WI, IA too for the right dog. I'm hoping you guys can help point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.
 
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Chestle

Member
I live in Minnesota, .
In your neighborhood these folks have been in British Labs for a LONG time. Probably right at the beginning of the wave when it was a wavelet. I have never owned one of their dogs but they have a reputation for good stock. Not sure if you will find the size you want though.

http://britishlabradors.com/aboutus.aspx

The breeding kennel BritishLabradors.com was founded in 1987 by Dennis and Janice Anderson. The kennel's original name, changed in 2000, was Queensland International Gundog Kennel.
Another longtime British lab breeder is Robert Milner. He started Wildrose Kennels back in 1972 and brought in his first British lab in 1983. He now runs DuckHill Kennels outside of Memphis. I've been there and done a seminar with him. Great facility. He has a LOT of British Labs. If you are really looking for a small 50-60 pound male, this is probably where you will truly find that. Robert sells "Canoe Labradors". I've seen them and they are great working dogs. The Canoe stud dogs are 50 pound males.

http://www.duckhillkennels.com/dogs/canoelabs.php

I know Memphis is a bit outside of your desired range but if you're really after a male of that size, I think that's about the only place I know of that will have both the British lineage and the size you desire. What the heck? One long round-trip to Memphis for a great companion of a decade or more? ROAD TRIP!!!

<edit> After looking at the pedigrees of the available Canoe Studs, I'd pick Tibea Duckflight for the sire of my pup...if I was buying.I like the Buccleuch bloodline in there along with the Tibea, Pocklea, Leadburn and Drakeshead inputs. That pedigree mixes some of the very best kennels in the UK. </edit>

Good luck! A new pup is such fun. Takes 10 year off you!
 
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IsThisHeaven?

New member
Looking for a black lab, next spring. I know it's early but want to he able to do my homework on breeders. I want something smaller in size, preferably in 50-60 pound range. This dog will be hunted for pheasants, grouse and waterfowl. Not looking for a pointing lab. I live in Minnesota, but am willing to travel to SD, ND, WI, IA too for the right dog. I'm hoping you guys can help point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.
A friend of mine has a dog from Old Oak Retievers. He has a yellow male that tops out just under 60 pounds. I have hunted with the dog a number of times. He is really nice. The dog has a nice even temperament and tons of natural ability. He takes training really well. My friend hunts him about 50/50 waterfowl and pheasants. He is getting a 2nd from Old Oak next spring.

http://www.oldoakretrievers.com
 

westksbowhunter

Active member
No need to leave Minnesota. If your looking for a quality hunting dog, it does not get any better than Holzinger. Do your research and you will see. Here is the link. Make sure you get a puppy from a sire and dam that has all the health clearences including hip certification, elbow certification, eye certification, CNM, EIC clear, etc. Look for a breeding with titled dogs as this shows the owner has put in the time to train the dogs. Most every female are going to be in the 50-60 range. My male came from all FC and AFC breedings and he turned out to point naturally. And happens to be the greatest pheasant and duck dog I have owned. So don't sell yourself short on pointing labs. Doesn't matter the breeding, some point naturally.

http://www.holzingerkennels.com/
 
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Gatzby

Member
For $1000-1500 you can buy one heck of a well bred dog right here in MN. Lots of nice litters from small breeders. Wildlife Kennels, StonyBrook, Blu moon. etc.
Heck I've never spent over $1100 for a pup....
PM And Ill let you know of any nice litters I know of. Any breeding I recommend will come from healthy, quality dogs, with all health guarantees.

Stay away from Robert Milner of Duckhill or Wildrose, he is a marketing guru But as a breeder/trainer he couldn't find his ass with both hands.

PS I'm not a breeder and have nothing to gain i just like to see people get the most dog they can. Their are far to unscrupulous crooks out there selling crap. IE silver labs, labradoodles, canoe labs, etc.
 

Chestle

Member
Well, having actually been to one of Milner's 4 day training seminars, watching his dogs work, watching him help train other people's dogs, seeing the improvements in other people's dogs, I would have to disagree.

But that's my opinion and everyone has their own.
 

Gatzby

Member
Well, having actually been to one of Milner's 4 day training seminars, watching his dogs work, watching him help train other people's dogs, seeing the improvements in other people's dogs, I would have to disagree.

But that's my opinion and everyone has their own.
FYI. I have been to a seminar as a handler put on by Robert Milner. I have also been to seminars put on by Danny Farmer, Rick Stawski, Alan pleasant, Steve Yozamp, Mark Patton, and Evan Graham...... I've probably missed a couple. Most of these seminars I was there is a handler as well as student some I was there just as an student. Some of these seminars have been great some not so much but I did learn something at everyone of them except Mr Milners. Honestly I felt that maybe he was getting a little old and senile, it was actually kind of sad. I think his seminar was 6-7 years ago. At this point he was still trying to breed dogs within the breed standard. It wasn't until recently he started his foolish endeavor of trying to breed an extremely small dog and calling it a canoe lab and charging crazy money. I never would have given him my money had I known he would do this to the amazing breed the Labrador is
 

Chip

Member
Duckhill kennel

I bought a dog from DH 6 years ago. A sweet girl with high degree of game finding and a great retriever. The problem is she is scared of her own shadow. I called Milner and told him she was gun shy. He said no problem he could fix her in a month. Long story short after him having her for 3 months and $2500 later she is as scared as before of everything. I ask if they could do something on another dog and they really didn't offer much. Anyway I have a sweet house dog
 

Chestle

Member
Well then we agree to disagree on Milner's training.

However, what does Milner's training methods have to do with the OP's stated desire for a small black male Lab? Milner won't be training the OP's pup in all likelihood. The OP can train himself or send the dog off to any one of dozens of trainers. A pup is potter's clay; it's up to the owner to mold (or have the pup molded) to the owner's liking.

So the OP stated he's looking for a British line Lab and a small one at that. A 50-60 pound male is indeed below the low-end breed standard of 65 pounds.

That's what he says he's looking to find.

I will submit that the pedigree on Tibea Duckflight most certainly fulfills the request for a British line Lab on the dog side of a pup's pedigree. The kennel names that populate Duckflight's pedigree are some of the most respected in the UK. Additionally, this dog is 50 pounds which would likely be reflected in getting a Lab of the OP's desired size.

The bitch side of the pedigree would depend on which of the various bitches Milner uses with Tibea Duckflight to get the size he wants. Milner has a good number of Legacy bitches that show British lines as admirable as those of Tibea Duckflight. It's likely he has a few of those that would whelp small Labs with Duckflight as the sire.

So it would seem there could be a Duckhill kennel mating that matches the OP's desires as stated very closely. That is why I suggested it.

The way Milner trains really doesn't enter into it, does it?

Now as to breeding within the breed standard, Milner does that too. His "canoe" line is a very small part of his breeding operation. As pointed out, these canoe Labs are below breed standard by perhaps as little a a few pounds or possibly up to 15 under.

I personally prefer smaller labs towards the lower end of breed standard.

In truth, I would much rather have one that is slightly below breed standard in weight rather than some of the monster labs coming in as 90/100/110/120 males. To me, those giants are the breeders destroying the breed.

Once again though it comes down to personal preference and opinion. You certainly have a right to your own.
 

westksbowhunter

Active member
I bought a dog from DH 6 years ago. A sweet girl with high degree of game finding and a great retriever. The problem is she is scared of her own shadow. I called Milner and told him she was gun shy. He said no problem he could fix her in a month. Long story short after him having her for 3 months and $2500 later she is as scared as before of everything. I ask if they could do something on another dog and they really didn't offer much. Anyway I have a sweet house dog

Gun shyness is man made. Not the responsibility of the breeder. The only way to get a gun shy dog is through improper introduction to the gun!
 

westksbowhunter

Active member
Well then we agree to disagree on Milner's training.

However, what does Milner's training methods have to do with the OP's stated desire for a small black male Lab? Milner won't be training the OP's pup in all likelihood. The OP can train himself or send the dog off to any one of dozens of trainers. A pup is potter's clay; it's up to the owner to mold (or have the pup molded) to the owner's liking.

So the OP stated he's looking for a British line Lab and a small one at that. A 50-60 pound male is indeed below the low-end breed standard of 65 pounds.

That's what he says he's looking to find.

I will submit that the pedigree on Tibea Duckflight most certainly fulfills the request for a British line Lab on the dog side of a pup's pedigree. The kennel names that populate Duckflight's pedigree are some of the most respected in the UK. Additionally, this dog is 50 pounds which would likely be reflected in getting a Lab of the OP's desired size.

The bitch side of the pedigree would depend on which of the various bitches Milner uses with Tibea Duckflight to get the size he wants. Milner has a good number of Legacy bitches that show British lines as admirable as those of Tibea Duckflight. It's likely he has a few of those that would whelp small Labs with Duckflight as the sire.

So it would seem there could be a Duckhill kennel mating that matches the OP's desires as stated very closely. That is why I suggested it.

The way Milner trains really doesn't enter into it, does it?

Now as to breeding within the breed standard, Milner does that too. His "canoe" line is a very small part of his breeding operation. As pointed out, these canoe Labs are below breed standard by perhaps as little a a few pounds or possibly up to 15 under.

I personally prefer smaller labs towards the lower end of breed standard.

In truth, I would much rather have one that is slightly below breed standard in weight rather than some of the monster labs coming in as 90/100/110/120 males. To me, those giants are the breeders destroying the breed.

Once again though it comes down to personal preference and opinion. You certainly have a right to your own.
The OP in no way, shape or form, ever stated that he wanted a British lab. Just a smaller lab 50-60 lbs. That fits the bill of 90% of female labradors regardless of whether they are from the US, England, Poland, or Russia. I do agree that Milner is a con artists and now producing designer labs!
 
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Chip

Member
It's not that the dog is just gun shy she is afraid of everything that makes a noise. I'm 70 years old and have hunting dogs me whole life and know how to interduce a dog to gun fire.
She was goofy before she heard the first gun. I know as soon as I posted that an expert would say gun shy is man made. Spoken from someone that never have a noise shy dog
 

david0311

Member
David0311

For $1000-1500 you can buy one heck of a well bred dog right here in MN. Lots of nice litters from small breeders. Wildlife Kennels, StonyBrook, Blu moon. etc.
Heck I've never spent over $1100 for a pup....
PM And Ill let you know of any nice litters I know of. Any breeding I recommend will come from healthy, quality dogs, with all health guarantees.

Stay away from Robert Milner of Duckhill or Wildrose, he is a marketing guru But as a breeder/trainer he couldn't find his ass with both hands.

PS I'm not a breeder and have nothing to gain i just like to see people get the most dog they can. Their are far to unscrupulous crooks out there selling crap. IE silver labs, labradoodles, canoe labs, etc.
Tried not to get involved-BUT--

Gadzby--is right on regarding Milner--in fact I find his disregard for Milner and his B.S. training/lack of some what kind:eek:

He is considered nothing if not a joke--charlatan--self promoting--opportunist--

Among knowledgeable retriever people: :mad:

But maybe I'm also being to kind in my description :eek:
 

donkey

New member
I did in my original post say I was looking at British labs, but edited that out of there because I didn't want to rule out other possibilities I guess. Still leaning British but would listen to other possibilities too.

Thanks for the info so far
 

donkey

New member
Any information on current litters would be great too, maybe I can convince the wife to let me get one now!! Haha
 

westksbowhunter

Active member
I did in my original post say I was looking at British labs, but edited that out of there because I didn't want to rule out other possibilities I guess. Still leaning British but would listen to other possibilities too.

Thanks for the info so far
Well guess I read after the edit. If British is what you want then here is where you want to look.

http://www.britlabs.com/
 

Chestle

Member
I did in my original post say I was looking at British labs, but edited that out of there because I didn't want to rule out other possibilities I guess. Still leaning British but would listen to other possibilities too.

Thanks for the info so far
I believe you also stipulated a male Lab, did you not?

The OP in no way, shape or form, ever stated that he wanted a British lab. Just a smaller lab 50-60 lbs. That fits the bill of 90% of female labradors regardless of whether they are from the US, England, Poland, or Russia. I do agree that Milner is a con artists and now producing designer labs!
As you can see, he did say British lab. Not your fault; editing posts causes this stuff. Some BBS put a time limit on how long after the post you can edit.

As I said above, IIRC, he also wanted a male Lab. I think 50-60 pound males are a lot less common, don't you agree?
 

westksbowhunter

Active member
It's not that the dog is just gun shy she is afraid of everything that makes a noise. I'm 70 years old and have hunting dogs me whole life and know how to interduce a dog to gun fire.
She was goofy before she heard the first gun. I know as soon as I posted that an expert would say gun shy is man made. Spoken from someone that never have a noise shy dog
http://www.gundogsupply.com/sws-gun-shy.html

Just to back my statement! Please enlighten us on how to introduce a dog to gunfire. Curious as to what may have happened to your pup.
 
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