Lesser Prairie Chickens and an energy thirsty public

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oldandnew

Active member
Article in the Kansas City Star today, detailing that an energy transmission line proposed for the Dodge City area is being rerouted, due to concerns over disruption of a population of Lesser Prairie Chickens. Cost is horrendous, some 576 million estimated. The change is supported by the KDWP, and Westar, the primary partner. It is apposed by an Oklahoma energy company which decries the expense as ridiculous, claiming it's absurd to spend 1 million per chicken to save them. They claim that because KDWP will sell a hunting lisence to hunt Lessers, for 20.50,( their numbers not mine), that we should just say to hell with them. Bear in mind the energy provided by this wind farm-transmission line will benefit mostly out of state, ( really out of region, Texas), to be sure some energy will be used in Kansas, but most will be exported, with Kansas paying the price with quality of life, in my opinion. I will try to attach a link, because you really need to read the comments. If you think we have a chance to save what's left of upland gamebird hunting the comments by the uncaring public most of which is all for plowing the lesser chicken under, to save a couple of nickles on the power bill, will sober you up quick. You can guess which comments are mine. http://www.kansascity.com/2011/05/15/2877538 powerline-shift-to-protect-prairie-chickens. maybe a moderator will help with the link, this is to important to miss.
 
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Old and new The link won't come up. I states it may not be in their system anymore. Can you sum up what was said? thanks
 
Really needs to be read, there are followup blogs, that are posted by our fellow citizens, which basically spurn the entire idea that the chickens are worth saving at any cost, if it means a possible increase on their power bills sometime in the nebulous future. It's so disheartening, I can't even bring myself to repeat some of it. It sends a chill down the spine to see in print how callous the general public is, and what lack of vision exists out there. Westar deserves to be commended for attempting to work out a compromise between the interests of the chickens and the need for a power transmission line. Anyone can find it Kansas City Star. com under current news. It was posted yesterday, I didn't see it till today, so it is current, I am just only so-so competent at computer function so I'm sure I messed up the link. Any help is appreciated.
 
I went to the Star's website, found the article and read it. Here's the link, though, if that helps anyone:


http://www.kansascity.com/2011/05/15/2877538/power-line-shift-to-protect-prairie.html


The first thought that came to my mind was: Doesn't the wind also blow pretty hard in Oklahoma?

If an Oklahoma wind power developer wants another 1,170 megawatts of electricity generation, why not leave Kansas (and our Lesser Prairie Chickens) out of the equation altogether and just develop some more wind power within Oklahoma's own state borders? Makes for fewer miles of expensive new transmission lines.
 
oldandnew, I found it and you are correct. It was not hard to find your coments.

Yes it is sad that so many people are so short sighted. We in Wyoming have the same thing going on with the Sage grouse. Not just wind energy, coal methane, oil and gas. I hope Kansas comes up with the right answer.
 
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I looked at the article. I have not had a chance to attend any meeting concerning the power line. I do know if it were coming across my land I would be fighting it because of my lesser prairie chicken.

There were a couple of things that stuck out in the article, other than being slanted against the LPC. First, the article said there were 140 LPC involved. Second, it was stated that licenses were issued to shoot up to 40 LPC. Third, the general counsel for KDWP stated that the annual harvest amounts to 3 % of the population.

I know the general area that the power line will run and the 140 could be a realistic estimate, but there certainly could be more in some of that area.

I don't understand where the up to 40 licenses would be sold number comes from. Any number of hunting licenses could be sold. The question is, "how many of the hunters will actually be hunting LPC and if they do will be successful in taking a LPC?"

The 3% harvest rate, I don't know how accurate the number is. I know the annual harvest rate at my place hasn't been nearly 3% and I don't think it has been that high on the neighboring ranches. But if the 3% is realistic, then of the 140 LPC in question, four might be harvested annually.

Here is to the Lesser Prairie Chicken, may they prosper and be forever on the Kansas prairie--
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I am guessing this is how they did their math. The LPC season in SW Kansas is 42 days long, and the limit is 1 bird per day. So, for the price of a $20.50 upland hunting license, you could legally shoot up to 42, making the birds "worth" $.49 each. I don't endorse that logic, but I think that's their arguement...

When I read the comments after the article, I think it shows the importance of educating the public about the LPC. Naturally, most people in KC are not going to know or care about a bird they have never seen or probably even heard of.

WTG, KDWP and Westar for trying to save the LPC. :thumbsup:
 
Toad said:
I am guessing this is how they did their math. The LPC season in SW Kansas is 42 days long, and the limit is 1 bird per day. So, for the price of a $20.50 upland hunting license, you could legally shoot up to 42, making the birds "worth" $.49 each. I don't endorse that logic, but I think that's their arguement...
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Nor do I, considering you have about a snowball's chance in hell of harvesting one. :D I would imagine the majority of the LPC are harvested by pure dumb luck or coincidence. :p
 
I agree with you guys, Toad and Wildcat; the writer's computation (40 birds killed per hunter) is based on a theoretical success rate where one hunter scores his limit every day of the season. Although technically accurate, this success rate projection is extremely misleading on any number of counts. I can only presume that the writer is ignorant of the realities of hunting prairie chickens.

Hunting chickens in feed fields is a lot like dry land duck hunting, only harder. Chickens flying into the field will approach from unpredictable directions, fly over the field at different heights, they will land where THEY want to land. I've never decoyed the Greater Prairie Chicken in a feed field situation, nor have I ever heard of anyone trying that, but I doubt it would work.

Also, prairie chickens have a nasty habit of letting you see their approach from a long ways off. This gets you keyed up to take a shot, and often you'd swear right up until the last second that you're going to have an easy overhead incoming shot. But then they fade to the right or left, usually just beyond effective gun range. It can be really maddening business hunting these birds. You're pretty much at the mercy of the chickens in feed field situations.

And hunting chickens in pastureland is exceptionally difficult. In the shorter grass prairie growth common to dry southwest Kansas the birds are going to have a much easier time seeing or hearing you at a distance, which lets them safely go bye-bye before you approach to within gun range. But hey, it's great excercise walking through pastures!

So yes, mathematically -- theoretically -- one licensed hunter could legally kill 40 chickens out of those 140 birds mentioned in the KC Star article. One very lucky hunter who happens to be a retired person who can hunt the area every day of the season, who is part Indian, part bird dog, part Olympic-class shotgunner, and whose father was a sorcerer and his mother a witch.
 
It would be interesting to see how many UPH'ers have hunted Kansas and taken a Lesser Prairie Chicken.

I actually have never killed a LPC, although I know of two killed on my place in eighty years of bird hunting.

I really think if every upland bird hunter in Kansas was polled, the number of LPC taken would be very low.
 
I am not trying to be provovative, but what harm could a power line do to the lesser prairie chickens? Other than the disruption of the construction?
 
Jeff, Go the North American Grouse Partnership sight and read. Prairie chickens of all varities will not nest within 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile of ANY man made structure, be it cow shed, oil well, or subdivision. I suspect a high tension powerline visible for miles qualifies in spades. All the north american prairie grouse suffer from proximity to humans, sage grouse and lesser prairie chickens the most. The highest mortality of lesser chickens has been documented as flying into barbwire fences and low power lines. This is a bird evolved for vast open grassland, it is remarkable in it's ability to withstand the rigors of winters, drought, and predators, and equally remarkable in it's inability to adapt to changes in it's already limited habitat. So for the lesser chicken, it's preserve what we have or say goodnight, permanently.
 
M.R. I have had the priviledge of harvesting lessers, way back it 70's on the Cimmaron grasslands, and again during a very short season in New Mexico, near Milnesand. In all cases, birds were very difficult to approach, did not hold well for the pointing dog long. All birds harvested were the late flush bird that always seems to hold longer than the rest, allowing the huffing and puffing shooters to leg it up to within range. Lots of birds harvested were by pass shooters between feeding and roosting sites, early and late. As always, I liked to see the country, and watch the dogs, so I did it the hard way in the middle day, when the pass shooters had retired to the veranda. I have long considered it a true upland trophy. Loosing this bird, would be a another in a long list of crimes. Already they are limited to a small population in extreme eastern edge of New Mexico, now no hunting allowed, Texas, fragmented population adjacent to the New Mexico birds, with a short season now and then, Oklahoma panhandle, no known season recently, Colorado, extreme SE corner, no season, and a decent size area of SW Kansas, with a short season with limited bag. You are blessed to have a few using your place, you may also have a few Greaters as well, since you are in an overlap area.
 
I tried to post this but did not sign up.

I think it should be built in the back yard of the CEO"S that want the dang power. I see those things in my area and I wonder if many just have no clue how much room and an eye sore this really creates. Build them closer to OK or TX if the power is for them. If needed in KS sure build it, but don't whine about it being moved for the protection of american heritage like game birds. Keep them at all costs. Once it is up U will look at those towers, and say, man those look like ^%^%$. If moving it solves the issue, and you still get your %^$ power. WTF are you whining about.

FC
 
oldandnew said:
Jeff, Go the North American Grouse Partnership sight and read. Prairie chickens of all varities will not nest within 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile of ANY man made structure, be it cow shed, oil well, or subdivision. I suspect a high tension powerline visible for miles qualifies in spades. All the north american prairie grouse suffer from proximity to humans, sage grouse and lesser prairie chickens the most. The highest mortality of lesser chickens has been documented as flying into barbwire fences and low power lines. This is a bird evolved for vast open grassland, it is remarkable in it's ability to withstand the rigors of winters, drought, and predators, and equally remarkable in it's inability to adapt to changes in it's already limited habitat. So for the lesser chicken, it's preserve what we have or say goodnight, permanently.
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That makes sense. Now I understand....
 
One win for our side! Battles on every front!!! If you do the math and any vertical structure eliminates nesting within 1/2 mile, then every piece of vertical structure has the potential to make 640 acres (rounded) of nesting habitat unuseable for nesting. A transmission line like that would leave a nesting void a mile wide all along it's grassed route. Add that to local power lines, oil wells, fences, trees, houses, windmills, and all the other man-made or man-caused vertical structure and you can see why both the lesser and greater prairie chickens are in decline long term. Mix in the annual burning that eliminates all nesting potential in large chunks of the flint hills, and it's hard to be a chicken. I thought most momma's taught moderation!!!
 
M. R. Byrd said:
It would be interesting to see how many UPH'ers have hunted Kansas and taken a Lesser Prairie Chicken.

I actually have never killed a LPC, although I know of two killed on my place in eighty years of bird hunting.

I really think if every upland bird hunter in Kansas was polled, the number of LPC taken would be very low.
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I have never shot a LPC. Last year was the first time I ever tried to hunt Greater PC with a dog. It can be done in the early PC season that is in the area where we have GPC. The birds will hold pretty well for a dog that points at a little distance. But by the time pheasant and quail season starts up, good luck getting close to them on the ground with a dog.

I shot 4 GPC last year over dogs. I would guess that my hunting partner and I walked 20 miles for every one that we got pointed and shot. I would bet that the LPC is tougher to get on with a dog.

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