Lease

What do you think this land owners neighbors and community are saying/thinking about the $50,000 the owner is asking?

There probably saying

"It is about time he started charging. We have been leasing our land for years. Don't have to worry about people always bothering us asking to hunt, no more fights about which hunting group got there first, don't have 15 different groups of guys driving in and out of the fields. I told him years ago it was a good way to make a little more money and not have to put up with all that bull crap."
 
Sticking up for the leasee's...
I completely understand and agree with you. What option do you have left?
Thanks to the slobs who take for granted the very land they share with others, another reason leasing has become more popular and in most cases, an alternative for most passionate hunters teaching their kids wrong from right.
But if we don't start holding these slobs accountable for their actions, more of our natural resources will be taken away for good - leased or not.
What's wrong with putting up a posted sign and giving permission to the ethical hunters who this day and age sounds like a rarity. Get in good with a land owner and show them respect so they do leave a weedy corner and don't bulldoze a hedgerow. All this can be accomplished without a fee. A handshake still does go a long ways these days.
For the unethical types who pound public land without any success and have by now probably a reputation for being slobs...better luck next year! I'm sure the locals will recognize their vehicle as one being talked about trashing the land they hunt. It should sink in soon why they aren't granted permission. so why aren't these people being reported?
It just sucks that hunting is costing you additional money because of others neglect. To a degree, why not stick up for yourself and report the suspects. Its just typical todays society of not intervening in a situation such as this and ultimately it's you that ends up suffering the consequences. So I find it hard to feel sorry.

Honestly, to leave a shell casing isn't the end of the world. Who is more concerned about where the empty flies than watching where the bird went down at? Sounds like someone is just trying to split hairs now. That's the least of the concerns. Yes, it's to the point of beating skulls in when cleaning out the birds in the driveway/parking lot for others dogs to find.

If there is an ever growing problem, why just ignore it and allow it to keep happening. Serioiusly, when are you going to run out of leased land to hunt because the owner will simply just get smart and bid out their land to the highest bidder. So if you don't understand what I'm saying here, just sell the gun and dogs and give up on hunting and save you the frustration as it'll never end.
 
I totally agree those of us who are lucky enough to have private land to hunt take pride in our hunting areas I have hunted on the same property for 7 years now but thanks to those other peaple who knows for how much longer hopefully long enough to get my own land we as sportsmen need to be stewards of the land just as the farmer and we need to take better care of it and leave it better than we found it
 
ha, never agreed more! Pheasant hunting will turn into a rich mans sport... And probably not a whole lot we can do about it. This whole country revolves around money... sooner or later most all places will be all leased up, and the regular Joe won't have many places to hunt. It's a pretty sad deal really, I feel bad for my kids. Going to have to send him to get a PhD so he can afford to enjoy what I am! lol....

Little drastic but eventually this will happen, I cringe damn near everytime I drive by a field that is leased. I know damn well most of these guys that lease these fields make it out a couple times a year to hunt. What a waste...
 
yep I agree those rich idiots are the ruenation of this sport I am happy for the guy who has alot of money but where does that leave those of us who work 9-5 and dont have any money to lease up all the land to hunt on up the damn river thats where and without the paddle
 
Random thoughts

It used to be we would go up to a new area we wanted to hunt, a month before the season, and knock doors to find permission to hunt. Now a huge percentage of landowners are absentee, and very difficult to track down. I admire those of able to still do it that way. But the liability issues, unable to meet face to face, due to absenteeism, conflicts with the ag leasee, who thinks he owns the place, i.e. issues his own permission, or lack thereof.... Short version, a signed lease by the owner solves the debate over who does or doesn't have permission, I carry extra liability to insure for accidental possibilities. Do I like the idea and hassle, absolutely not! Is it the future, I am afraid it is, it's the only sensible reality now for some of us. As stated here in this forum, many of us are trying to buy ground, are you going to let people hunt your ground? when you get it, or only other people who own ground that let you hunt in turn, sort of like Edwardian England and the Big shoots. As far as thinking that empties aren't an issue, modern shotshells last a lot longer than you think, The Missouri dept. of conservation, actually prosecutes for littering in cases like dove hunting on public ground. I can say that even on private ground, I have seen several generations of plastic shells, wads, heads, where CRP has been burned to where you can see them. Looks like hell, I might add. North Dakota used to have a law which allowed hunting with IMPLIED permission, unless the land was specifically posted otherwise, what happened to that? We used to be able to lease ground in Nebraska and Kansas for 1.00 per acre, until the state WIHA programs offered a lot more money! Be careful what you wish for. Out west the fashion is to post your ground and lock gates across trails to prohibit public access to BLM ground. So this type of behavior is everywhere. I see the WIHA program as a hunting refuge for hunters, because NOW, we are the endangered species!!! The access issue is the killer, public owns the game, but the landowner owns the access. Maybe we did it all wrong, maybe in large part the government should have kept the most of the ariable land, rented it to the farmer on life hold estates, then access would be public right. It's a pretty well established fact that farming virtually everything from just west of Kansas City to Denver, and from Canada to Mexico, is not sustainable, or in the long term profitable, some professor at MIT wrote a paper about it several years ago, caused a big stir. But look at the water table in the auqifier if you need proof.
 
It's just insane! Seriously, why would you pay even $4/acre (and be happy about it) to hunt quality land and give the land owners the satisfaction of just sitting on their a$$e$. Sorry for ruffling anyone's feathers here but com'on!

It is insane, seriously, C'Mon. Why would you expect to hunt land for free that the owner has to not sit on their rear ends (work their a$$ off) and pay the mortage and the taxes?
 
ha, never agreed more! Pheasant hunting will turn into a rich mans sport... And probably not a whole lot we can do about it. This whole country revolves around money... sooner or later most all places will be all leased up, and the regular Joe won't have many places to hunt. It's a pretty sad deal really, I feel bad for my kids. Going to have to send him to get a PhD so he can afford to enjoy what I am! lol....

Little drastic but eventually this will happen, I cringe damn near everytime I drive by a field that is leased. I know damn well most of these guys that lease these fields make it out a couple times a year to hunt. What a waste...

Yeah, here's the deal. Most of those guys that lease and only make it out twice per year, don't have time to talk to farmer Joe for 3 hrs on Saturday b/c they may only get 2 or 3 weekends a year off.

I get fewer than 5 w/e's per season off since my last promotion. I'm working toward my dream of owning land. In my 5 w/e's per season, at least a couple are spent at wrestling tournaments b/c I need to squeeze being a dad somewhere into my 60-70hr/wk job. Many of my trips are day trips only. I simply don't have time to get permission anymore. I have not lost permission anywhere I've gained it, but I haven't been able to spend time finding new permission lately. I do have a few days of vacation coming and I'll probably knock on a few doors and hear the BS about long lost cousins from Cincinnatti that are coming out once for Christmas so you can't hunt this time blah, blah, blah.

I think if you had the extra $, but absolutely NO TIME, you might see this a bit differently. I once felt the exact same way, but my circumstances have changed. If I am to have a productive pheasant season this year, outside the 2 areas I have private access in, I will need to lease land. When I leave E KS for a 40hr/wk job in W KS, I will no longer need to lease land. I'll have time to sit in the farmer's driveway on a Friday evening asking to hunt the w/e. I don't imagine the young man from ND that is fuming about leases, has a job that keeps him home for 2/3's of the w/e's of hunting season.

I just need 1/4 section that I can count on to not have been pounded, so I can show up near the end of a fruitless day and reward myself and my dogs on my way home from hunting WIHA.
 
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yep I agree those rich idiots are the ruenation of this sport I am happy for the guy who has alot of money but where does that leave those of us who work 9-5 and dont have any money to lease up all the land to hunt on up the damn river thats where and without the paddle


I can't answer this question.

I just don't fear the poor man will be w/o a place to hunt in our lives or our son's lives. There should always be public access or public access programs.....fees can and will increase in time, but that's it. So long as you guys keep introducing new people to the sport, there will be votes and fee $ working in our favor. The rich will have their leased spots and spots they own, but guess what, there will be HABITAT on those places......that's gonna improve bird #'s everywhere.

To be honest, I think you have to worry more about our tradition of hunting dying than rich people leasing up all your land.
 
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Yeah, here's the deal. Most of those guys that lease and only make it out twice per year, don't have time to talk to farmer Joe for 3 hrs on Saturday b/c they may only get 2 or 3 weekends a year off.

I get fewer than 5 w/e's per season off since my last promotion. I'm working toward my dream of owning land. In my 5 w/e's per season, at least a couple are spent at wrestling tournaments b/c I need to squeeze being a dad somewhere into my 60-70hr/wk job. Many of my trips are day trips only. I simply don't have time to get permission anymore. I have not lost permission anywhere I've gained it, but I haven't been able to spend time finding new permission lately. I do have a few days of vacation coming and I'll probably knock on a few doors and hear the BS about long lost cousins from Cincinnatti that are coming out once for Christmas so you can't hunt this time blah, blah, blah.

I think if you had the extra $, but absolutely NO TIME, you might see this a bit differently. I once felt the exact same way, but my circumstances have changed. If I am to have a productive pheasant season this year, outside the 2 areas I have private access in, I will need to lease land. When I leave E KS for a 40hr/wk job in W KS, I will no longer need to lease land. I'll have time to sit in the farmer's driveway on a Friday evening asking to hunt the w/e. I don't imagine the young man from ND that is fuming about leases, has a job that keeps him home for 2/3's of the w/e's of hunting season.

I just need 1/4 section that I can count on to not have been pounded, so I can show up near the end of a fruitless day and reward myself and my dogs on my way home from hunting WIHA.

For the record, this young man does have a 40 hour/week job. We all have to juggle w/e's around bday parties (for 2 of the 3 kids at home) and all the other fall activities. I still need to drive 1/2 - 1 hr one way to my favorite hunting spots. So it's not like I'm out there schmoozing with the l/o's any chance I get either. What is 5-10 mins of your hunting day to go talk to a l/o? Sounds like your trying to make excuses for not talking to them when it could mean years of hunting their land in the future. So what if you hear stories of when the hunting land won't be available because of the Cincy cousin (or whatever the story maybe). Are you going to be hunting there over Christmas - probably not. So what does it matter if it's not going to affect you then other than just listening to the story now.

Its just crazy how the simplest thing of getting to know a l/o for your benefit and you try to avoid a conversation with them. You shouldn't expect a l/o to just have all this trust in you because you knocked on their door. Get to know them and their neighbors. Don't be just one of these fly by night hunters who expect things spoon feed to you. Let them get to know you too so their trust in you runs a little deeper.
You mentioned that you'd like to eventually buy your own land one day...you'd sure get the piggy bank filled up a lot sooner if you weren't wasting money on leasing land. Just saying...
 
UGA

Your making a lot of assumtions about people who you do not know at all.
 
Seems this conversation is going nowhere.... these are my views, and you all can have yours. Thats the beauty of Forums like this one..... Until they turn into a I have more posts on here than you, and that renders your opinion less worthy than mine.

There is two sides to every fence, each story has multiple "right" ways of it being told depending on who you ask. But I'm pretty sure we are all here for the same thing, even though we each do it different ways...

So quit getting all defensive!
 
For the record, this young man does have a 40 hour/week job. We all have to juggle w/e's around bday parties (for 2 of the 3 kids at home) and all the other fall activities. I still need to drive 1/2 - 1 hr one way to my favorite hunting spots. So it's not like I'm out there schmoozing with the l/o's any chance I get either. What is 5-10 mins of your hunting day to go talk to a l/o? Sounds like your trying to make excuses for not talking to them when it could mean years of hunting their land in the future. So what if you hear stories of when the hunting land won't be available because of the Cincy cousin (or whatever the story maybe). Are you going to be hunting there over Christmas - probably not. So what does it matter if it's not going to affect you then other than just listening to the story now.

Its just crazy how the simplest thing of getting to know a l/o for your benefit and you try to avoid a conversation with them. You shouldn't expect a l/o to just have all this trust in you because you knocked on their door. Get to know them and their neighbors. Don't be just one of these fly by night hunters who expect things spoon feed to you. Let them get to know you too so their trust in you runs a little deeper.
You mentioned that you'd like to eventually buy your own land one day...you'd sure get the piggy bank filled up a lot sooner if you weren't wasting money on leasing land. Just saying...

Exactly, 40hrs/wk. I work 60-70 easily. Never questioned anyone having a 40hr/wk job, just suggested that the kid from ND probably doesn't have a 70hr/wk job.....there is a HUGE difference in the amount of free time one has between those 2 schedules. I have never leased any land, but I'm more interested now than ever, but only b/c of my schedule. My kids are in 10 wrestling tourneys per winter.....I'm lucky to see 2 or 3 with this job. No, I won't work this job forever and yes, having this job was my choice. I'm not getting defensive, I just want everyone to know that I'm not interested in leasing to be a "daddy warbucks" type. Leasing sure seems to have a few of you pretty upset. My buddy in NC KS practically quit talking to me when I told him I was considering a lease.

5 minutes? I've never had one last less than an hour b/c I don't want to be a "fly by night" guy. Spoon fed to me? When I had a job that was less than 50hrs/wk, I didn't mind driving everywhere to find new WIHA spots and knock on doors. I don't have a problem talking to those folks. I know you don't know me well, but I came from the farm. I'm no foreigner to these folks or their customs....I'm not a "city boy" by any stretch of the imagination and I'm anything but shy. Your assumptions of me are neither fair or accurate. It just isn't time effective for me to do so these days. I do NOT have time to "let them get to know me". Someday I will. Yes, it would affect me to sit and listen to everyone's stories b/c I'd end up with a 1/3 of a day to hunt, then I'd be driving home. I don't get to stay the night in pheasant country on Saturday nights...I have to drive home and go to work the next morning, even on the w/e's I'm lucky enough to get off work for a day. I can't even line up a Sunday to hunt with my dad these days....if you don't live with this kind of schedule, I wouldn't expect you to understand or appreciate my position. 7 days a week my friend, unless vacation has been scheduled and I only get so much of that. I have to save a bit for camping in the summer w/ my kids.

I'm glad it works for you man I really am. I wish it would work for me now, but it isn't. We see this very differently, but I can put myself in your shoes and understand your point.
 
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Everyone can do as they please. But don't think that just because a place is more expensive, that the grass is greener on that side of the fence. There is plenty of options for everyone. I personally wont pay these prices. I am lucky to have a gazillion places and acres to go, private or public. But there is people that want everything taken care of or will pay to have something to their selves. Big deal. It just keeps those folks off land I use. Let em pay. Heck I had a guy call this week that wanted to rent a dog, He offered 200$, for 5 days, just to not have to deal with a dog for the rest of the year. I did not do it , but some one will, and will people be mad because they have someone pay for a dog?, rent a car? etc. That lease price could be split between several people and used at different times to make it cheaper for some one. But I would buy more shells, a gun or two and several other things with my $. I may some day go to one of these places just for a week get away, who knows. I am waiting until Uguide has afternoon massage parlors with the services, So I feel invigorated for the next days hunt.:D
 
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Seems to me the huge, clear line between a landowner's RIGHTS & a hunter's PRIVILEGES is somehow getting a bit blurred on this thread. Whether a landowner chooses to let 10,000 people hunt on his property for free without asking, only one person for $50,000 per year, or allow ZERO hunters on his or her land due to anti-hunting sentiment, liability issues, family-&-friends only, or whatever - that is their prerogative!!! :thumbsup:

To EXPECT something for nothing as if it is in any way OWED to us as hunters is absolutely ludicrous!!! :mad: IF I ask someone & they allow me to hunt their land for free, or for a modest fee, or I happen to be richly (and time) blessed enough either to purchase & habitat-improve/hunter-manage my own land the way I choose or handsomely pay someone else who does - last time I checked, there is still plenty of room at the table for everybody here in the land of the free! Each of us must simply find whatever it is that works for us and our own particular means/situation!!! :cheers:

Unfortunately, GREED & SELF-CENTEREDNESS are very often & always will be a problem on BOTH sides of the isle when it comes to hunting issues between landowner & hunter (with both sides way too frequently managing to cut their own throats) - not much different at all really than any other matter involving two or more human beings...Whatever happened to stepping into another man's shoes once in a while & turning around looking back the other way, perhaps even walking a mile or two in them be4 coming to a one-sided (lop-sided) emphatic conclusion??? :confused:
 
@KB - I feel your pain!!! Grueling day-trips it is for me too (relaxed overniters in rooster-land are few & far between)! The only knocking on doors I ever get to do is during the course of that day (& believe it or not it often works AND slowly accrues over time)...I did also pay a small $100 "lease" fee this year to a local lion's club for access to nearly 80,000 acres in the heart of rooster-heaven (not exclusive or the primo high-$$$ stuff which I personally can't afford - what does a fellow expect for 100 bucks - but I can guarantee you I will scratch some roosters off of it, with way less competition than the burnt-over freebie stuff)...I would gladly in a heartbeat pay several dollars an acre for EXCLUSIVE access to a patch of some PRIMO stuff where I could rotate my kids and/or a couple friends in-&-out as guests at my discretion, IF it were close enough to home that I could utilize it enough to justify the expense AND if it could be written-in-stone that it would be watched-over/policed for poachers & not be hunted hard behind my back by the landowner, all his family and friends, and possibly even sub-or-day leased as well to a guide or someone else behind my back again (which is a tall order - this ain't my first rodeo, these kind of things happen all the time in the "business")...Pheasant-hunting or any hunting for that matter is a two-way street & every man must carefully look out for himself and equally go out of his way be just as considerate of others if this thing is going to work for all! :thumbsup:

@FC - LOL, now that's funny right there! :D
If the landowner who the initial post on this thread was about can find a way to get that kind of money, more power to him - he is one heck of an "entrepreneur"! I highly doubt he will get anywhere near it, much less for two years in a row & I don't think that hunters anytime soon will be be lined up & fighting with each other to pay all of the neighbors comparable trespass fees - the learning curve will be real short on this one! :p
If there are any hunters out there with ____ for brains & $100 bills to wipe their ___ with, then let em' think they're havin a much higher time than all the rest of us & get what they deserve! Common-sense & the current economic situation will insure the rest of us from any real danger... ;)
 
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Good Folks

Its my opinion that its these land owners screwing over the local communities. Just think how many MORE people would travel to these towns, use their hotels, restaurants, gas stations, etc if there was free hunting land. Its just all around better for the local ecomony but as I see it, the owners charging this outrageous fee to hunt only reduces how many people actually come into the community to patronize these services.

how many of you here can say that they could afford to pay a lease, gas, hotel stay, food, etc? If so, great! But just think of the average joe who can't and just wants to take their kid out and introduce them to this sport we so passionately love. Chances are, most of us hunt because our own fathers took us out and its a chance to relive some of those memories growing up. Now it's our generations turn to prep the next round of future hunters for this sport. But really, I see hunting slowly becoming a rich-man's sport. Plus, this day and age, I believe there are far more average joes than a rich guy. Why are we even paying memberships, attending banquets for Pheasants Forever??? It's not just focusing on the now and buying all this land...it's helping enhance what land is already there and making the habitat even better for the future of the sport and pheasants. So Thank you all who are members of PF and volunteer their time so someone else other than your own kids can enjoy the land in the years to come.

Honestly, the owner who wants to lease 5ooo acres for $50,000 has no heart or common sense. Someone said it earlier...portion out that land and charge less...how can one man or hunting party possibly hunt 5000 acres in a season? So the owner is just screwing himself and his local economy in this greedy effort to make a quick buck targeting a pretty small niche.

Really, put yourself in the shoes of a small town business owner who probably depends solely on hunting season to keep their business going. Are you going to like having this greedy landowner as a neighbor who's looking for a rich person (who if likely can afford that lease will probably be driving through town in a pretty nice camper set up and just park that on the 5000 acres somewhere loaded up with all the food, shells, and necessities for that trip). So then the hotel owner misses out on that stay. Grocery store/Restaurants owners not selling food. Liquor store...same story. Soon it will just be a ghost town (ok, maybe a little far fetched perhaps but may also be a reality for some of these towns)

I would rather see this land owner charge a lot less (nothing preferably), split up his land for more people to enjoy so that it draws more people into the community. It's not rocket science. So everyone benefits in the end.

It's becoming more clear why these pheasant hot spots have the bird numbers they do. People can't afford to get into those areas to hunt birds. So much of the land is more of a refuge and sanctuary. I'm sure there would be many more hot spots all over if each area started charging for land access. Ultimately, it will be unhealthy to have that many pheasants in one area. They will just choke themselves out. I'm guessing that land owner also isn't doing anything to better the land to support that many more birds.

So am I the one being a little harsh? Yeah, probably. What do you think this land owners neighbors and community are saying/thinking about the $50,000 the owner is asking?

Its just sad!

UGA,
I take it that you are in the hotel and/or restaurant business, then?

I have to chuckle every time I see these one of these "we spend loads of money in their back yards, the least they could do is to give us free run of their farms" rants. Good hunting areas are getting harder to find for all of us - that's frustrating. But blaming the "greedy" landowners and/or those who lease (I don't) just makes the situation even less perfect, for everyone. You are NOT doing anyone a favor by hunting on their farm or in their county!!

What percentage of the "local" poplulation derives their livelihood from the motel/cheeseburger biz? Vice the percentage that can't get a seat at their normal breakfast spot for weeks during "the season", and who have to drive in the ruts we leave in their roads, or try to navigate their roads around those who would never road hunt - but just like to drive 5 miles an hour down backroads "in season"? And who live with the trash some strew (yes, plastic hulls count) for months/years? Not to mention enduring the attitude of entitlement and superiority some may display?

I am amazed that more "locals" don't greet us with buckshot, instead of offering the friendly waves and polite greetings most of get, most of the time.
 
Had almost decided not to get in on this , but cannot resist.
Let's not make this a class war. There are some here that only hunt public, some that own land, some that lease land and some that hire an outfitter of varying degrees. There are others whose idea of a bird shoot is out the car window. Quite honestly I did that in my college substinence days but I do not think much of it now. I did make me a good game cook, but I digress.
I lease some ground so that I know I have a place for friends and guests that's not burned out day to day. Some years it's not even all that good but I like the variety of the ground for hunting with my dogs. No "dogman" who has ever been there with me disagrees. I hunt my lease at least 15 days a year.
I have hunted a few of South Dakota's finest high end joints, always as a non-paying guest. These were generally business arrangements and some I enjoyed, some not so much depending on the company. I do not have opportunities of this kind much anymore.
I have owned up to 120 acres, but am now down to 13 due to my wife's cancer. So it goes and I'm not complaining. God has given me new fields of one kind or another. A carpenter who is doing work for me is from the Tulare area ich in pheasants and has invited me for a number of weekends.
I still hunt a lot of public land, but I am entering my 53rd season in SD and have been familiar with some for that long. I generally have some pretty good ideas when and when not to be on them, and how to approach the cover. Experience counts.
In any case, it is my belief there are ops for all and we do not need to disparage one another or the farmer. My observation in life, be it work, politics or social activities is that evryone but you and me is screwy and I'm not so sure about you!!!;)
 
I was also going to add that anyone on this forum who says he/she would NOT like to own there own chunk of prime pheasant ground is a damned lier.
 
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