Lab problem

[BrownDogsCan2]

Used to have my dog fetch beers out of the back of the pickup, I'd say "sister get me a cold one" fun trick at parties

When you get stuck in a rut it never hurts to rock it back a bit.:cheers:

 

[mustistuff]

retrieving

years ago a hunting friend had a yellow lab named Sadie, Sadie was a hunter. anyway she knew a number of us so when dana went to the fridge, he would give Sadie a beer and say take it to spence, sure enough here came a can of beer, kinda neat, kinda useless, but kinda fun. just shows that even labs can learn something

cheers

 

[carptom1]

Hey Musti,

Your a closet Lab lover aren't you? You sure talk about them a bunch.

My dog wouldn't retrieve a stick for anything. He will get balls but he crushes them. Nothing but a bumper in water. Won't retrieve a ball out of water for anything. He has been on bumpers his whole life. Funny thing, I have always had trouble getting him to release bumper. Gives birds right over so I really haven't made a big deal out of it. Probably should of broke him of it a long time ago.

 

[david0311]

david0311

I respectfully disagree especially if a dog was introduced to birds and was not forced fetched and is retrieving soley on instincts. The value is that the dog can associate with something it enjoys or likes. If you are following the methods in the book I suggested then a dog will retrieve anything you tell it to and bumpers canvas or plastic will do the trick and be more cost effective. Not all dog owners are familiar with that training and it is way more cost effective and practical at this age to spend 25.00 bucks then to send your dog for a professional training or subject it to methods it may or may not come through ok. To be more specific, try one and see how it goes. Why spend money on bumpers, just use old tennis balls they kind of look like quail?

Sorry--I just don't understand you point-- why anyone would consider the Dokkens dummy's more valuable --

Do you really think they associate them with real birds???

The Tri-Tronic book somewhat informative but very very basic--there a so many better options out there

Still don't see the value of the Dokkens- Linder dummies --but if you like them and think they are of value--your choice and money--I can say though I have never seen one on a pro's truck--

 

[mustistuff]

point of view

I just love to talk about dogs and all breeds need to be picked on at least a little bit, dogs don't mind, it's their stupid owners that are the problem. I had labs for 17 years, raised a couple of litters, my favorite male carried all three colors but now more than ever there are two types, one that can still hunt and the other that is too fat and stupid. I had good times with mine but my interest changed and the pointing breeds just excite me more, heck, some people even like britts. a good lab is a good dog to have, but then you know how it is

cheers

 

[mustistuff]

Hey Musti,

Your a closet Lab lover aren't you? You sure talk about them a bunch.

My dog wouldn't retrieve a stick for anything. He will get balls but he crushes them. Nothing but a bumper in water. Won't retrieve a ball out of water for anything. He has been on bumpers his whole life. Funny thing, I have always had trouble getting him to release bumper. Gives birds right over so I really haven't made a big deal out of it. Probably should of broke him of it a long time ago.

if he does a good job at what is important, getting the bird, give him a break, be happy, might keep him from biting you sometime

cheers

 

[Ditchmaster]

Sorry--I just don't understand you point-- why anyone would consider the Dokkens dummy's more valuable --

Do you really think they associate them with real birds???

The Tri-Tronic book somewhat informative but very very basic--there a so many better options out there

Still don't see the value of the Dokkens- Linder dummies --but if you like them and think they are of value--your choice and money--I can say though I have never seen one on a pro's truck--

I can't speak for all dogs but for one that I've had yes, for others I've owned no, the book if you are starting from ground zero is a good beginners start and what some pros recommend if you are new , we're talking a guys weekend hunting dog I think, not a trial dog, hey it is just an idea not trying to start a debate. Go take that dog and shoot it thirty pheasants at a preserve and see what it wants to retrieve the bumper or a dokken? Again we are talking about a dog that is doing this for the fun of it not because it has been conditioned to believe it has to if I understand the op correctly. If the op pm's me his address I'll send him one for free. Dave also for the record I'm not saying it will work for sure with his dog. My dog got to go practice on a lot of preserve birds in its youth and I ponied up the extra bred for Rooster pheasants to make sure there was no confusion what our mission or objective was. I think someone said if you want a great bird dog, you have to show it a lot of birds or something like that. And although shooting preserve birds for your buddy isn't hunting it sure beats the hell out of mowing the lawn. Train to fight, fight to win.:cheers:

 

[Gatzby]

Dokken-Linden dummies--great sales men-ship --on their part--appeal to dog owners-- paying those prices when they are of no more value for training than regular bumpers makes no sense --IMO

Real birds the key--

Don't want to upset anyone--JMO :cheers:

Agree! More or less
Dokkens etc maybe have some value becouse of size and weight. I also like them for training in light cover as the don't stick out like a bright white bumper. I have a bunch I've won and my dogs like them. But my guys will retrieve anything. For them it is the love of retrieving not marketing gimmicks. Like any part of dog training it's about balance....
Steve

 

[Gatzby]

train the mutt to fetch the tennis ball in pheasant country and then when the time comes you shoot a pheasant, tell the dog to go fetch, he runs right past the dead bird and is gone for 20 min. trying to find the tennis ball, good luck with that one. years ago there were a number of articles on retrieving, some stating the dog should retrieve anything asked. one suggested don't ever use a beer can, there are just too many of them out there, would drive the mutt crazy trying to bring them all back, in the mean time, forget about the bird.
have fun. just trying to help

cheers

You are kidding right? I sometimes don't recognize sarcasm

 

[Gatzby]

Hello everyone,
I have a prob with my lab he's 2 yo and I just introduced him to pheasant hunting last year ( started him at game farms ) and then to public land and he did very well no issues except that he was just inexperienced ( to be expected )
BUT so far this year I've been taking him for some retrieving practice in some " birdie " looking fields with the dummies and he didn't show any interest at all. But if I throw dummies at the local town park and my back yard he goes and retrieves like a champ. I don't want to get mad at him and I'm sure it's my fault somewhere down the line. Should I just start back at the beginning or is there another fix for this issue. Let me know what you think.

Sounds to me like the pooch is being a dog. There is a big difference between fetching in the park and a "trained retrieve".

I am more than happy to offer some advice, but I need a little more info.

What are your goals for your dog? How much time are you willing to invest/ commit.
Do you want a dog that will flush birds and retrieve more or less reliably to hand? Or do you want "finished" retriever.

 

[mustistuff]

PDave, just be careful. Make it fun and don't expect more than you have already. And remember, accept what you want.
I'm not too demanding of my dogs. I expect obedience, manners, and expect them to find birds. They retrieve great. But my old dogs brings bumpers right to me and sometimes holds. I don't really care because she will not drop a bird. Now my young dog has rarely brought dummies to me and mostly stops short. I care a little, but again she will not drop a bird. I'm happy enough with the arrangement, which is what I mean by "what you accept".

as the late dave duffy would say, if you are just in it for the hunting, be happy the dog is getting the job done one way or the other, be careful of what you wish for, just might drive you and the dog crazy, seems like you have found a great middle ground, most should be so fortunate

cheers

 

[padave]

You are kidding right? I sometimes don't recognize sarcasm

. Agreed ^^^

 

[padave]

Again I'd like to thank everyone here for the help and advice. It's hard to find hobby/interest sites like here when you ask a question and have to filter thru tons of jackasses and trolls. Thank you everyone. To change the subject for I moment....If anyone needs help with anything that I can offer please feel free to ask/ pm/ email ( davebalderson@hotmail.com ) I'm a electrician that lives in south central York co. South of York city.

 

[padave]

Sounds to me like the pooch is being a dog. There is a big difference between fetching in the park and a "trained retrieve".

I am more than happy to offer some advice, but I need a little more info.

What are your goals for your dog? How much time are you willing to invest/ commit.
Do you want a dog that will flush birds and retrieve more or less reliably to hand? Or do you want "finished"

I'll try to keep it to the point. The main reason I starter this thread is last week when I took him out for a little retrieving practice I use a canvas bumper with pheasant sent ( the kind that looks like a stick of deodorant ) and one of those life like looking dummies ( pheasant style with the hard head feet and tail, dokken I think they call it here. ) that Dirt found in a field on day while hiking.

What I think the BIG problem wit that day was.
1- it was hot.
2- he spent about 2-3 hrs playing with a 4 month old puppy prior to our training session.
3- Dirts 2nd time out on a real training session, away from the back yard and town park.

I'm not looking for excuses to excuse his behavior, just trying to figure out where the problem was and correct it.

What I would like to see happen is for him to dive into the brush with out hesitation ( that's my biggest issue with him )
And I'm not expecting him to be field/hunting expert. I guess just a weekend warrior like my self. Unfortunately I work in wash.dc and live just south of York city PA.

I want a flusher and retriever and to stay until I shoot.
And as far as time to invest I can devote 1-2 hrs daily and the weekends are
Pretty much open to do what I want. And I have a great wife who doesn't ad to the honey do list during fishing and hunting season.

I hope this info helps you let me know if you need anything else. I'll be looking forward to you're reply.

Dave.

 

[mustistuff]

training

with your situation and lack of experience it would seem, to have the dog retrieve to you, go in the thick stuff should be easy to get done, to have him stay till you get done shooting is I am guessing beyond your abilities at the moment. for a flushing dog, it also is not necessary, willing to hunt, retrieve and stay in range is what you should be shooting for. it would do you well to get a hold of some bird wings, they can be bought if you don't have any and when you are out in the field, whenever the dog isn't looking plant, throw one in the thick stuff, one you are teaching it there is something to hunt for and it is probably in cover, the dog should then bring it back kinda to you. once you are happy with the above performance, there are then a lot of things you can do to polish you mutt, but first things first. be happy it is minding mostly, retrieving and looking for birds.

cheers

 

[Kismet]

with your situation and lack of experience it would seem, to have the dog retrieve to you, go in the thick stuff should be easy to get done, to have him stay till you get done shooting is I am guessing beyond your abilities at the moment. for a flushing dog, it also is not necessary, willing to hunt, retrieve and stay in range is what you should be shooting for. it would do you well to get a hold of some bird wings, they can be bought if you don't have any and when you are out in the field, whenever the dog isn't looking plant, throw one in the thick stuff, one you are teaching it there is something to hunt for and it is probably in cover, the dog should then bring it back kinda to you. once you are happy with the above performance, there are then a lot of things you can do to polish you mutt, but first things first. be happy it is minding mostly, retrieving and looking for birds.

cheers

What ^ he said.

And, the last two dogs I've had, a GWP and a Springer, came to me as adults which had never hunted before. I did a lot of reinforcement training in the kitchen, first with making them "stay," tossing a wing. then commanding "fetch." When I was sure they wouldn't think the wing was a chew-toy,and that they would bring it back, we moved on. The next step was making them stay in the kitchen, going down the hall into the dining room, tossing the wing in some corner, going back in the kitchen, and commanding "fetch." Once they knew what I wanted, they'd bound off and search their little hearts out.

As time went by, I escalated to two rooms away, or half-way up the stairs, or the wing stuck in the top of a boot...etc...so they would HAVE to search.

High praise all the time and a biscuit at the end of the sessions.

It was simple, convenient, tidy, and could be done any time I chose.

The GWP became a superb retriever, and Mick, the Springer, has not lost a bird I've dropped, but still thinks 3 yards away is good enough.

After they got the idea, I'd use toys, or even empty vitamin bottles as retrieving items.

Have fun with the pup.

:thumbsup:

 

[carptom1]

Sounds to me like the pooch is being a dog. There is a big difference between fetching in the park and a "trained retrieve".

I am more than happy to offer some advice, but I need a little more info.

What are your goals for your dog? How much time are you willing to invest/ commit.
Do you want a dog that will flush birds and retrieve more or less reliably to hand? Or do you want "finished" retriever.[/QUOTE

 

[carptom1]

You are kidding right? I sometimes don't recognize sarcasm

You have to remember he is talking about training his GSP's to retrieve......Maybe that will clear it up

 

[GPowers]

I would just get some wings on the bumper and get the dog fired up!

Try a local game farm for wings if you don't have any or just get the dog back on real birds.

A lot of guys hate game farms and what they stand for, just remember it's really about the dog! The more time on birds the better.

Play time is different than hunting with some dogs. I have seen dogs that don't care about chasing a ball but get them on scent and they went nuts.

Good luck and let us know how things are working out. Lots of good dog guys on this site, I'm sure they will help you out!

 

[Gatzby]

Sounds to me like the pooch is being a dog. There is a big difference between fetching in the park and a "trained retrieve".

I am more than happy to offer some advice, but I need a little more info.

What are your goals for your dog? How much time are you willing to invest/ commit.
Do you want a dog that will flush birds and retrieve more or less reliably to hand? Or do you want "finished"

I'll try to keep it to the point. The main reason I starter this thread is last week when I took him out for a little retrieving practice I use a canvas bumper with pheasant sent ( the kind that looks like a stick of deodorant ) and one of those life like looking dummies ( pheasant style with the hard head feet and tail, dokken I think they call it here. ) that Dirt found in a field on day while hiking.

What I think the BIG problem wit that day was.
1- it was hot.
2- he spent about 2-3 hrs playing with a 4 month old puppy prior to our training session.
3- Dirts 2nd time out on a real training session, away from the back yard and town park.

I'm not looking for excuses to excuse his behavior, just trying to figure out where the problem was and correct it.

What I would like to see happen is for him to dive into the brush with out hesitation ( that's my biggest issue with him )
And I'm not expecting him to be field/hunting expert. I guess just a weekend warrior like my self. Unfortunately I work in wash.dc and live just south of York city PA.

I want a flusher and retriever and to stay until I shoot.
And as far as time to invest I can devote 1-2 hrs daily and the weekends are
Pretty much open to do what I want. And I have a great wife who doesn't ad to the honey do list during fishing and hunting season.

I hope this info helps you let me know if you need anything else. I'll be looking forward to you're reply.

Dave.

I play a game with my young dogs, I call it "dead bird". As soon as I have a semi reliable retrieve (pre FF) I take the dog to a 1 acre price of grass that I mow fairly short except for a half dozen clumps of tall grass. They range in size from a 2 square feet to about 25 square feet. When the dog is just starting out I will place a frozen pigeon in the middle of the small clumps or at the edge of the larger clumps. I will take the dog and walk him through the field into the wind just letting him hunt I don't have any plans or preconceived expectations of the dog I just let him free range and stumble on to the birds. I will use body English to help guide the dog in the general direction of a bird or get downwind of it just as ensure success. After just a couple sessions you'll let the dog out of his kennel and he will charge out to every Clump grass looking for a bird. As he gets stronger I will start putting the bird into the middle of the larger clumps and kind of burying it increasing the difficulty slowly. Early on it is very important that every clump of grass has a bird in it, as the dog gets stronger and is very competent at finding them in every clump of grass you you start putting them in random Clumps of grass. This will build a gambling habit so to speak in dog where he doesn't necessarily always get rewarded but he gets rewarded more often than not. Pretty soon you will have a dog little charge out in search out every clump of grass just on that random reward of finding a bird. I should add that as I walk into the field with the dog I will say dead bird numerous times to get them all jacked up and excited so I guess I do put a command to this training segment. This is a good drill to do with any dog at any age before hunting season just to refresh what they already kind of know.

Now grab a buddy and have him toss a frozen bird into those clumps of grass while you stand off at the distance with your dog and then send him to retrieve. The distance you stand away is determined by the skill level of the dog it could be as little as 5 yards or as much as 300 yards. I would start at 5 yards, if you're successful in getting the retrieve back up another 5 yards and repeat the throw. Keep backing up and repeating the throwl until you reach a distance you're comfortable or happy with this may take one session or 25 sessions to get out to 100 yards or whatever you figure is appropriate. No repeat this whole procedure at a different clump or multiple clumps as the dog skill level increases.