Lab guys sorry but....

[Weimdogman]

I don't do hunt tests but my labs are trained to that ability and it comes in handy when you hunt a lot.

To compare a retreiving hunt test to a pointing test is comparing apples to oranges. How many blind retreives do pointing dogs run?

NAVHDA Utillity requires a dog search a body of water for a blind retrieve. No hand signals,no whistles just the original send. The dog is judged on a thorough search.

Invitational/VC requires some long marks , doubles and blind retrieves I believe. I haven't participated in that event.

You love your labs , and if they do things you say , you have spent many hours training them and should be proud of the teamwork. I started this thread not bashing labs just sharing a observation one of our hunting partners had about his experiences hunting behind our pointing dogs.

 

[wingsnfins]

Yawn on this whole versatile thing.
Yes, by NAVHDA definition, a Labrador Retriever does not fit the NAVHDA definition of "it's" recognized versatile breeds. So what, it's "their" list.
A dog, any dog, can be trained to do any task.....even those that don't come from parents that have long names and all sorts of initials behind their names.
I have a Lab, and my previous dog was a Lab. I like Labs. My Lab hunts. He's a really good dog, could be better, could be worse. To me, he's very versatile cause I expect him to do alot of things and have trained to him to do so, but he's also not a robot. His instincts, knowledge, abilities, experience, discipline, drive, and personality make him a joy to have as my pal no matter what we are doing.
If I want him to get a ribbon for a test, I'll teach him to do what the test requires, but that can be accomplished with any working breed within the scope of their abilities and reason.
Labs have that ability, whether it's hunting upland birds, hunting waterfowl, tracking wounded game, tracking humans, cadaver searches, narcotics searches, explosive searches, etc. But so do alot of other breeds, because they can be taught.
To say a Lab isn't versatile cause it's not recognized by a "association", yawn.
I like Pointers too, my Lab typically hunts with his brother and 2 Pointers. In this case. German Shorthairs. My previous Lab and his brother hunted alot with a Weimaraner and a Vizsla.
Proof in the picture we can all get along, cause our dogs don't care about this!

 

[gimruis]

Right so I’m not sure why guys are getting defensive here and how any of this versatile stuff pertains to pheasant hunting specifically. Think people are getting confused what the term actually means

About 7 pages back I asked this very question and wondered why it was necessary to have a dog that juggles, stands on 2 feet, can do taxes, and speak fluent Japanese. The response I got was that a versatile breed can track blood, fur, and feathers.

Who the heck cares if a bird dog can track blood or fur? Are we using them to track wounded deer or raccoons, bobcats, and yotes? I am certainly not.

This thread is 9 pages long and the argument has gone nowhere. I'm still waiting for someone to start a thread that rips on pointers purely out of spite.

 

[2point]

NAVHDA Utillity requires a dog search a body of water for a blind retrieve. No hand signals,no whistles just the original send. The dog is judged on a thorough search.

Invitational/VC requires some long marks , doubles and blind retrieves I believe. I haven't participated in that event.

You love your labs , and if they do things you say , you have spent many hours training them and should be proud of the teamwork. I started this thread not bashing labs just sharing a observation one of our hunting partners had about his experiences hunting behind our pointing dogs.

So a dog wandering around a pond looking for a bird but doesn't have to find the bird is the same a water blind retreive. Hmm. I would rather give the dog hand signals to find the bird and get back to me, but to each his own.

Here is my point and I will be done with this. I think the versatile pointing guys on here are over selling their dogs waterfowl, water ability. Flushing lab guys are overselling their dogs upland ability. I tried to ask somebody what their versatile pointing dog does on waterfowl and they refused to answer. This was after they said it was great.

I hunt with a friend every year and he has 2 dogs. One is a field bred Irish setter and one is a field bred pointing lab. We hunt all day. Ducks and geese decoying on the river or in stubble fields. We also hunt huns, sharpies, and pheasants. It is a no brainer that he brings his pointing lab. It is cold and there is no way his setter is swimming in a cold river, or picking up geese. Don't flame me, I know this is a small sample size (just two dogs) but the pointing lab is also better than the setter on upland. He gets invited on hunts on prime land (pheasant forever fund raiser hunts) because of his lab. He always laughs and says I am going back next year. I don't know if they like me but they loved my dog.

So the way I like to hunt and what I want to hunt I will go with a lab. Just because they don't fall in the versatile group, they are very versatile. If I was only doing upland I would definitely rethink that. Good hunting to everybody.

 

[Smasher]

Heres what they mean by versatile. Them pointer owners are prolly versatile too

https://twitter.com/x/status/1771183626585092189

 

[Gatzby]

Well I just read most of the posts. Two things come to mind.

Why do all other breeds compare themselves against the good ole Labrador meat dogs? All dogs are fantastic (except Tollers) and everyone thinks their dog is the best, and they are all correct.

Secondly I realized awhile back that my dislike of Nova Scotia Duck Tollers wasn't about the dog at all it was about the typical owners of Tollers. I think some versatile owners fall into the same trap, instead of enjoying their dog, they seem overly compelled to bash, or at least be critical of other breeds.

PS Tollers still do kinda of suck.

 

[gimruis]

everyone thinks their dog is the best, and they are all correct.

Half of this is true. Everyone thinks their dog is the best, but in reality they are incorrect. No one is going to openly state that they think their dog sucks.

Its no different than our trucks or shotguns.

 

[Wind River]

Hate to sound sappy, but all a dog asks for is to be loved. Let's spread the word. Criticize me, but NEVER my dog.
Back to pheasant hunting, maybe?
Google up "Super Power Dogs" and see what other non-hunting breeds can do. Let's appreciate the differences in us and our dogs.

 

[Bob Peters]

I do like that hunting with a golden retriever she really only chases after birds, which she is crazy for. Initially when first hunting she would chase deer and bunnies and whatever else we came across. Now she has learned what we're after and will ignore everything else. I would imagine hunting pheasants with a dog that wants to kill every skunk, porcupine, possum, coon and coyote it finds to be a pain to deal with. Skye has come across some of these creatures out in the field and I can call her off very easily. Saves money in vet bills or wild goose chases through the swamp.

 

[Golden Hour]

I do like that hunting with a golden retriever she really only chases after birds, which she is crazy for. Initially when first hunting she would chase deer and bunnies and whatever else we came across. Now she has learned what we're after and will ignore everything else. I would imagine hunting pheasants with a dog that wants to kill every skunk, porcupine, possum, coon and coyote it finds to be a pain to deal with. Skye has come across some of these creatures out in the field and I can call her off very easily. Saves money in vet bills or wild goose chases through the swamp.

So you basically unversatilized your dog. Very impressive!!

 

[LittleBigHorn22]

Why do all other breeds compare themselves against the good ole Labrador meat dogs?

The lab has been the most popular breed in America. Which makes it the most compared too. I don't think anyone on here is directly saying labs are bad. Just that they prefer pointers/versatiles for their hunting. But if you hunt 1-2 days a year, a lab is probably your best choice.

 

[BrownDogsCan2]

The lab has been the most popular breed in America. Which makes it the most compared too. I don't think anyone on here is directly saying labs are bad. Just that they prefer pointers/versatiles for their hunting. But if you hunt 1-2 days a year, a lab is probably your best choice.

lol you’re quoting a guy who trains , trials and or hunts 300 days a year and who’s lab is worth more than my truck

 

[Munster927]

I think anyone here bashing on or saying a NAVHDA Prize 1 Utility Test or Versatile Champion dog can't compete with their black lab they got from farmer Bill is just really showing either a willful ignorance or has never seen what either of those tests involve.

Obviously there are fantastic labs out there that could probably pass a Utility test. But it's funny to read some of the comments against the pointing breeds and lumping all pointing breeds together as if a English Setter is the same on waterfowl as a Pudelpointer or Small Munsterlander.

Anyone saying "versatile dogs aren't that special" should attend a NAVHDA Utility test just once.

 

[LittleBigHorn22]

lol you’re talking to a guy with a 50 thousand dollar lab

Just realized my wording was poor on that. I meant if a person wanted a dog and they wanted to hunt 1-2 days a week. I would absolutely suggest them getting a lab. They are amazing family dogs. And that quality also makes them a good hunting dog. If a person enjoys a flushing dog for upland, then even if they hunt 100 days a year, a lab can still be a great choice. Especially if they waterfowl hunt a ton. But from personal experience going from a lab to pointing breed had extremely enhanced my hunting such that I would never go back.

I'm really trying not to bash labs. they are great dogs.

 

[BRITTMAN]

To the comments above on dogs under pressure to pass retriever Field Trial and higher end Hunt Tests. I would say it is not necessarily a test of pure hunting ability and definitely not a measure of a retriever's ability to hunt pheasants.

These trials and tests are definitely a measure on the ability of a retriever to follow handler directions and expectations on increasing complex activities - and follow those directions exactly. Labs dominate the scene here. Some labs do seem to excel in this environment.

Since I know or am friends with a couple of field trial guys and hunt test guys ... let me share that the pressure to succeed is just as high (probably higher) on the handlers ... pro and amateur alike.

Some professional handlers go through quite a few dogs to get to titles vs the amateur handler and most hunters on this site that pick a good breeder but then have to train and navigate the issues on the dog they purchased.

 

[Drew]

This post just reinforces how much everyone loves their dogs and the sport of hunting on this site. It is awesome to see all of the passion, mine included from everyone. I have owned and hunted alongside many breeds of dogs, some incredible and some awful. I personally feel that the quality of the dog is a result of the quality of the person behind the dog, the number of bird contacts and the number of bird species that the dog has behind it.

Pretty cool interactions on this post.

 

[LittleBigHorn22]

I like data so I made a poll to see where people fall for this discussion.

Pointer vs Flusher Poll

At the risk of blowing up another thread, I was curious on how many people prefer which type. But specifically want those who have had experience owning both. None of this "my buddies sister in-law's dog was bad so those dogs suck".

forum.ultimatepheasanthunting.com

 

[BRITTMAN]

I have owned Brittanys since 1981 and have zero interest in NAVHDA testing. I at times flirt with the idea of hunt tests ... maybe the dog I have in retirement will be lucky enough or unlucky enough to be that dog.

 

[HS Strut]

Thats the bad part about an upland lab. You get 3 years of running for 10 miles, 2-3 years of getting tired after a couple miles, then for the rest of their life they turn and look at you like they want to go home after 200yds. They age and slow down way too quick. My new pup runs 8-10 miles in the field, naps on the way home, and then wants to go for a walk or play. Its like having an 80lb GSP but it only lasts a couple years unfortunately.

So funny. My lab just finished her 8th season. Went to ND hunted hard, I walked 6+ miles per day, and she never took a walk off. She's the only dog I had. Everybody told me I couldn't go to ND, SD etc with one dog? Well, it appears to me that if you don't have a lab you keep in good condition? That may be true. Because I've yet to see a guy in the last 8 years go with me and only have one pointer. I'm not arguing....I'm rebutting. I fully expect my girl to slow down at some point? Just got a pup last week. But I'm fairly certain at 9....next season my old girl will wear out the others. Only problem she's having is jumping on the tailgate after a couple days out there. But she hunts like she's 4.

 

[LittleBigHorn22]

Does anyone run a GPS on lab/flushers. I was curious about actual miles done. Here was my average miles/day from 2021 GPS tracked 13 days total. (I moved in 2022 so didn't do nearly as much pheasant). Pretty much what I always suspected. 8 miles an average and the dogs do 2x what I do.

Me 8.4 miles/day
3 year old GWP 16.6 miles/day
1 year old GWP 17.1/day

Edit: forgot my dad was along with me for some of the days so adding his and his dogs average for the 7 days hunted.
Dad: 8.6 miles/day
2 year old GSP 23.7 miles/day