Lab guys sorry but....

2point said:
Out of curiousity, how good is your Vizla on waterfowl. Does it mark and retreive triples in tough conditions? Will it make a 150 yard water blind retreive? Will it dive for cripples? I have been around labs for 50 years and think they are great on waterfowl. Are we talking the same kind of great.
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Interesting that you bring up MH level of standards. You do realize most labs aren't able to do those?

By the same standard MH in pointing dogs aren't allowed guidance,whistles/hand signals.
 
2point said:
OMG please get off versatile!! I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS AND ALL THE BREEDS IN THE CATEGORY! I WENT TO NAVHDA EVENTS PROBABLY BEFORE YOU WERE BORN. ANSWER THE QUESTION- WHAT DOES YOUR VIZLA DO ON A WATERFOWL HUNT? DO YOU FINALLY GET IT. IF YOU DONT ANSWER IT THEN YOUR VIZLA MUST NOT BE THAT GREAT AT WATERFOWL LIKE YOU SAY! I CAN NOT MAKE IT ANY MORE CLEAR.
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Lighten up Francis. The Vizsla is long gone, so you can stop worrying about him.
 
Like I said back on page 6:
Each person has to find the situation that works best for them and the properties they most often hunt.
 
Versatile in dogs just means pointing, retrieving (water/land), and tracking. That's it. it doesn't mean your dog that isn't a versatile breed can't be versatile to you or even as good as the versatile breeds in those category. But you can't blindly pick any dog and have it easy do all three. Also being versatile certainly doesn't mean it can be a master hunter in every category.
 
I will note that I grew up waterfowl hunting in ND and my first bird dog was a Brittany. The Brittanys that I owned when I hunted waterfowl hard (say more than 50% of my time in the field) did well. I would not hunt them all day when the weather was below freezing ... and they always (still do) ride in the cab there and back. Two of my Brittanys would submerge their heads under water to find ducks that were not visible ... Each would sit still next to me along a slough or lay next to me in the field ...

The Brittany in my Avatar ... that photo is from a 30-bird (mallards, small Canadas, snows) day field hunt in a lightly snow-covered field.

I do not hunt waterfowl a whole lot anymore because in most every case I have been there done that. I find the hours of an upland bird hunter much better.

All that said these Brittanys worked well for me with essentially no birds lost. They marked falling birds well, swam and ran well to get to birds, and were relentless with their noses in birds that fell into heavy cover. Would they outperform a high-performance lab - nope. Would they listen to whistle commands and do blind retrieves - nope ... they were not trained to that. I bet you that the majority of labs are not trained and maintained to that level. When it comes to high end trials the lab is king ... even Chessies and Goldens have a tough time with that.
 
Weimdogman said:
I keep a eye on my dogs the best I can. I use vibrate and tone to get them to check back or hold if on scent. I try and keep them within 40 yards of me or someone else in or out of the thick stuff. We all do it enough that the dogs know what is expected of them. Newbies I take out hunting quickly learn.

My buddy uses the locator collars on his vdds. I don't care for those but his dogs are harder to see in the thick stuff then my weims. Large solid color verses his being patches. He also let's his dogs run further out then I do.

When we hunt our dogs are steady to flush and steady to shot which is important so as not to be busting birds out.
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So if a rooster, sharptail, or hun flushes wild, you do not shoot at that bird?
 
Ok maybe I’m wrong but the world versatile to me means the dog is also bred to like fur and track blood. What am I missing? Any other hunting breed can find roosters, retreive waterfowl, and retrieve pheasants.

What am I missing here. So dumb
 
Springer22 said:
Ok maybe I’m wrong but the world versatile to me means the dog is also bred to like fur and track blood. What am I missing? Any other hunting breed can find roosters, retreive waterfowl, and retrieve pheasants.

What am I missing here. So dumb
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You get it.
 
Springer22 said:
Ok maybe I’m wrong but the world versatile to me means the dog is also bred to like fur and track blood. What am I missing? Any other hunting breed can find roosters, retreive waterfowl, and retrieve pheasants.

What am I missing here. So dumb
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I'd rather have dog that excels in locating antler sheds than one that tracks fur (rabbits, voles, deer).

I want a versatile dog that can hunt silently at 200 yards, obediently at heel jump shooting, seeks the thickest sea cattails,
and patiently waiting in the goose pit or dove field.
I want a dog that can track a cripple and come back with it 20 minutes later, a dog that easily sheds weed seeds, hunts from August thru January,
that can jump in a freezing river and retrieve a bird and be ready to go again.
coldwater.jpghappy_lab.pngChuckarsIdaho.jpgscarred.jpg
 
Springer22 said:
Right so I’m not sure why guys are getting defensive here and how any of this versatile stuff pertains to pheasant hunting specifically. Think people are getting confused what the term actually means
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It’s hard to figure. Might be poor reading comprehension or too immature to admit they misunderstood.
The convo does make me want to get a German shorthair. Like I need another dog!
 
I hunted some strip pits in 60 ft deep water on a -5 degree day. It was the last of the water to freeze, rivers were froze, marshes froze, etc. My labrador hunted just like it was 60 degrees. We hunted about 1.5 hours that day before we shot a limit of mallards. That was right before Christmas, and I will post a pic of the frozen coat my dog had. You won't get any of the "versatile" breeds to do that. The next week we were hunting pheasants in western Kansas. He pointed uplands birds as well as the setters I used to own. He would also shed hunt and found a lot of them. And he was a champ at tracking deer we shot. He was nearing 12 when we lost him to cancer. A great family pet as well. Probably picked up several thousand doves but his specialty was pheasant hunting and it was what he liked the best. Labradors are also the most popular breed for guide dogs and are very popular for service dogs. Now they may not be listed on the outdated NAVDA versatile breed list, but they are the most versatile breed. They are trained to such a high level to become a NFC, AFC, FC, GMHRCH, that most other breeds would crumble with the pressure. There are some great breeds out there but ultimately the success of a dog lies with the trainer. Most of the Jabroni's on this thread couldn't take a dog through basic obedience so buying a versatile breed won't matter. They could underachieve with any breed.
 
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Springer22 said:
Right so I’m not sure why guys are getting defensive here and how any of this versatile stuff pertains to pheasant hunting specifically. Think people are getting confused what the term actually means
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To be NAVHDA (so, versatile by THAT definition only) the dog must point, or so I understand. I don't need/want a dog that'll point, flush, or retrieve a possum, but I'm not surprised there are people that do. I think they live south of Iowa.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
To be NAVHDA (so, versatile by THAT definition only) the dog must point, or so I understand. I don't need/want a dog that'll point, flush, or retrieve a possum, but I'm not surprised there are people that do. I think they live south of Iowa.
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Same here.

The original post was obviously to cause shit on a bird hunting forum. Started out fun but now everyone is getting all defensive that their dog isn’t considered a versatile breed by the hunting dog world organizations. Our sprinters aren’t considered versatile and we don’t care they are badass dogs and can do lots of stuff ha
 
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Springer22 said:
Same here.

The original post was obviously to cause shit on a bird hunting forum. Started out fun but now everyone is getting all defensive that their dog isn’t considered a versatile breed by the hunting dog world organizations. Our sprinters aren’t considered versatile and we don’t care they are badass dogs and can do lots of stuff ha
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I’d love to have a springer! Got one to spare?
 
Weimdogman said:
Interesting that you bring up MH level of standards. You do realize most labs aren't able to do those?

By the same standard MH in pointing dogs aren't allowed guidance,whistles/hand signals.
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I don't do hunt tests but my labs are trained to that ability and it comes in handy when you hunt a lot.

To compare a retreiving hunt test to a pointing test is comparing apples to oranges. How many blind retreives do pointing dogs run?
 
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