Lab guys sorry but....

I think anyone here bashing on or saying a NAVHDA Prize 1 Utility Test or Versatile Champion dog can't compete with their black lab they got from farmer Bill is just really showing either a willful ignorance or has never seen what either of those tests involve.

I know I've never seen the tests. If I show up with a flusher do I have to train her to track and point fishers, feral cats, ground hogs and bull frogs? Badgers, marsh rats and mink? Possums and polecats, a house mouse and a ruffled grouse?
 
Does anyone run a GPS on lab/flushers. I was curious about actual miles done. Here was my average miles/day from 2021 GPS tracked 13 days total. (I moved in 2022 so didn't do nearly as much pheasant). Pretty much what I always suspected. 8 miles an average and the dogs do 2x what I do.

Me 8.4 miles/day
3 year old GWP 16.6 miles/day
1 year old GWP 17.1/day

Edit: forgot my dad was along with me for some of the days so adding his and his dogs average for the 7 days hunted.
Dad: 8.6 miles/day
2 year old GSP 23.7 miles/day
I thought pointing dogs just stood around all day and waited for their owners to catch up to them. 😁 Hey let me flash a point here I need a break! 🤣
 
Does anyone run a GPS on lab/flushers. I was curious about actual miles done. Here was my average miles/day from 2021 GPS tracked 13 days total. (I moved in 2022 so didn't do nearly as much pheasant). Pretty much what I always suspected. 8 miles an average and the dogs do 2x what I do.

Me 8.4 miles/day
3 year old GWP 16.6 miles/day
1 year old GWP 17.1/day

Edit: forgot my dad was along with me for some of the days so adding his and his dogs average for the 7 days hunted.
Dad: 8.6 miles/day
2 year old GSP 23.7 miles/day
I don't "run" a GPS. The mileage my springer puts on, compared to me, varies greatly, depending on the type of cover we're hunting. I don't know how many miles I average (maybe about 2-2.5), but I've always thought my dog does about 3x what I do in light cover to 7x what I do in extremely thick cover.
 
In the third post of this topic I said I wasn't going to bite but after 10 pages..........

I have a Lab and we just got a new puppy, also a Lab. I previously had a Lab. I like Labs. I've never had a Pointer, never considered it and never hunted with one. Maybe i don't know what I'm missing but that's ok.

Others like Pointing type dogs, or versitiles or whatever you call them and tests, intials and ribbons. That's ok, I'm glad they like dogs too and to each their own.

I have no idea what all the fancy initials and acronyms and tests mean and really never thought about it. For me it's all about how the dog works with me in the field.

The one post that created a mental picture was what LittleBigHorn said a few pages back. "I can't speak for him, but my dogs will flush on a release command. I hunt a lot solo so being able to get in a shooting position and letting the dogs do the flush helps a ton."
I understand your words but keep seeing a hunter, gun mounted like a guy at the trap range, his dog on pointing to the bird , and yelling "Pull"!

No criticism, judgement or disrespect intended.with my comment. The image of that just makes me smile.
 
So funny. My lab just finished her 8th season. Went to ND hunted hard, I walked 6+ miles per day, and she never took a walk off. She's the only dog I had. Everybody told me I couldn't go to ND, SD etc with one dog? Well, it appears to me that if you don't have a lab you keep in good condition? That may be true. Because I've yet to see a guy in the last 8 years go with me and only have one pointer. I'm not arguing....I'm rebutting. I fully expect my girl to slow down at some point? Just got a pup last week. But I'm fairly certain at 9....next season my old girl will wear out the others. Only problem she's having is jumping on the tailgate after a couple days out there. But she hunts like she's 4.

That would be the longest hard working lab I have ever heard of. But its all down to how much work its had in its lifetime. Guys who work their dogs on 100+ retrieves, drills, plus miles of walking every single day are going to have the dog not last as long as the guy who just does a mile walk every few days and lets the dog run in a field some (upland hunting). The hips and joints simply wear out on labs, its not a breed that was built to run every day like some of the smaller pointers. My vet suggests starting on hip/joint supplements at age 3 for labs but there comes a point where the cartilage is just wore out and the dog cannot run miles anymore. Not a matter of being "in shape" or "fat", its a matter of the joints wearing out after so much use. Of course bad hips are an issue of their own within our breed, but I am not referring to those dogs.

Our furry friends have a milage rating and unfortunately you cannot replace parts reasonably.
 
In the third post of this topic I said I wasn't going to bite but after 10 pages..........

I have a Lab and we just got a new puppy, also a Lab. I previously had a Lab. I like Labs. I've never had a Pointer, never considered it and never hunted with one. Maybe i don't know what I'm missing but that's ok.

Others like Pointing type dogs, or versitiles or whatever you call them and tests, intials and ribbons. That's ok, I'm glad they like dogs too and to each their own.

I have no idea what all the fancy initials and acronyms and tests mean and really never thought about it. For me it's all about how the dog works with me in the field.

The one post that created a mental picture was what LittleBigHorn said a few pages back. "I can't speak for him, but my dogs will flush on a release command. I hunt a lot solo so being able to get in a shooting position and letting the dogs do the flush helps a ton."
I understand your words but keep seeing a hunter, gun mounted like a guy at the trap range, his dog on pointing to the bird , and yelling "Pull"!

No criticism, judgement or disrespect intended.with my comment. The image of that just makes me smile.
This made me laugh/smile because that exactly what it is like. And I'm not sure how someone couldn't find that style really fun. It almost never lines up that perfectly every time so it's not like hunting feels like a joke. And watch the dogs work something that well is more enjoyable than actually hitting the bird.
 
That would be the longest hard working lab I have ever heard of. But its all down to how much work its had in its lifetime. Guys who work their dogs on 100+ retrieves, drills, plus miles of walking every single day are going to have the dog not last as long as the guy who just does a mile walk every few days and lets the dog run in a field some (upland hunting). The hips and joints simply wear out on labs, its not a breed that was built to run every day like some of the smaller pointers. My vet suggests starting on hip/joint supplements at age 3 for labs but there comes a point where the cartilage is just wore out and the dog cannot run miles anymore. Not a matter of being "in shape" or "fat", its a matter of the joints wearing out after so much use. Of course bad hips are an issue of their own within our breed, but I am not referring to those dogs.

Our furry friends have a milage rating and unfortunately you cannot replace parts reasonably.

I fully agree on the "build" of a lab and the concerns for the grounding and pounding they put on. Larger bone structure, larger muscle structure, broader build.....and they have the ability to put weight on quickly.
My Lab will be 8 in July. I have had him on glucosamine chews for some time now. I keep him on a good food. He gets zero human food/scraps. He gets about 2 to 3 miles of exercise a day. In the good weather months, on top of the daily brisk paced walks he swims a lot, way easier on their joints and stresses muscle groups not otherwise used. Plus, he is a Lab.......more like an otter in the water! I do as much as I can to keep him trim and well conditioned. His annual checkup in December, I had the conversation with my Vet regarding the "senior" stage beginning and food transition, if that was needed and such. The feedback I received was that my dog was in no way beginning the "senior" stage aside from his age.
I did GPS him once last year........was able to attach my FITBIT to him.......probably not the most accurate, but I use it and it's relative to the feedback I get when using it. My dog will typically range 15-20 yards or so each side of me, or the end hunter of a line and range 15-20 yards or so in front. If there is 2 of us spaced 20 yards apart, my dog is covering approximately 60 yards or so side to side and approximately 20 yards or so in front. So I figure he is always covering at least double or triple of what I am. The day I put the FITBIT on him, I did 6 miles on my phone, he did just shy of 14 miles on the FITBIT.
He gets watered with Kinetic Hydro 30K starting the day before hunts, during and after. I will give him fresh water too, but mostly on hunt trips he is drinking the Hydro 30K. I also supplement him with Mendota Health Aches/Discomfort tablets with his meal. He is rarely dragging his tail and is always ready to go the next day. He'd run himself to death if I let him. But on that note, rarely am I pushing him from open to close every day of a trip. There is always travel time, down time, stop and smell the scenery time, lunch, etc. Throw in those days of a quick limit too! LOL! I also don't let him jump up into the truck or down out of the truck either.
But like you stated above, I know that he is going to wear down more sooner than later, and sooner than some of the other breeds. It just is what it is with Labs.
 
That would be the longest hard working lab I have ever heard of. But its all down to how much work its had in its lifetime. Guys who work their dogs on 100+ retrieves, drills, plus miles of walking every single day are going to have the dog not last as long as the guy who just does a mile walk every few days and lets the dog run in a field some (upland hunting). The hips and joints simply wear out on labs, its not a breed that was built to run every day like some of the smaller pointers. My vet suggests starting on hip/joint supplements at age 3 for labs but there comes a point where the cartilage is just wore out and the dog cannot run miles anymore. Not a matter of being "in shape" or "fat", its a matter of the joints wearing out after so much use. Of course bad hips are an issue of their own within our breed, but I am not referring to those dogs.

Our furry friends have a milage rating and unfortunately you cannot replace parts reasonably.
We would only walk a mile/day if I was by myself. We would limit out Quick!

But there are always guys without dogs. We hunt all day helping them. I've never let her jump down out of the truck. Always set her down. I believe that is unnecessary joint pounding that can easily be avoided. Always fed her weight management food until right before season. Zero table scraps. IDK? Maybe I've just been lucky? They have some pretty awesome testing these days. I feel like breeding is a big deal as well. Mine didn't come from a garage breeding next door. I paid good money for her and she came from good genetics. Her gma was winning hunting challenges into her 12th year. I know people who have had 5 dogs that combined didn't cost what this one did.....Always dying of cancer, hip issues, won't retrieve, won't hunt....to each their own. I drove 6 hours to get her. Drove 13 to get this puppy I just brought home. I take it serious. But I don't need a trailer full of dogs to go hunting either.
I love ALL DOGS. I have a great friend who has setters and a shorthair. LOVE THEM ALL. I don't judge a guy for the dog he chooses. I've shot a LOT of birds behind those fabulous setters. I've seen him kill a limit in an ankle high field of wheat stubble. I can't do that with my lab. But working edges....thicker cover....Shoot a bird that falls across water? I'll take my lab.
 
As a historic Lab guy who made the move to a pointing dog, I still hunt with folks who own Labs and one of the guys that I hunt with even has a Golden Retriever. I love Labs as well. I bought a pointer when my lungs and legs wouldn't enable me to keep pace with my Lab!
 
I have had him on glucosamine chews for some time now.
I just started this about 6 months ago based on the advice of the vet. My dog turned 12 in February. She is very good health for a 12 year old.

I've used the same vet for most of her life and the single most important variable I can control is her weight. The vet told me this from day 1 and continues to remind me of it. There is an ideal weight for each dog and anything above that causes extra strain on joints, hips, etc. The other recommendation I've been given by the vet is to avoid heat-related exercise. They tend to over heat quicker than most other breeds. Especially black ones. For that reason I don't hunt in anything over about 50 degrees.
 
Sage gets table scraps most every night with her food, as well as those times when she looks at me when I'm eating. Doesn't take any supplements, only drinks water. We hunt pretty regular in the fall. She's 10. Has never once showed any signs of wanting to go back to the truck after 200 yards. It takes a couple weeks at the beginning of the season to get back into form, which started when she was 7 1/2 years old. Retrieving ducks is something that I don't train or do much conditioning for and hunting pheasants isn't something that can be replicated, but I do have her run a couple miles a week in September. She does have some arthritis in her back according to x-rays, but does not show symptoms of pain. I do lift her out of the back of the Slongspedition at the end of the hunt, but she jumps in.

Labs have gotten a bad rap because they are a popular breed and, as such, there have been some unscrupulous breeders who have whelped puppies with hip dysplasia issues, EIC issues, etc. But a well bred lab is an entirely different dog than Jim Bob's black lab that got out and made sweet love to the chocolate lab down the road. The notion that a lab is all but done after 5 or 6 years is simply false.
 
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Sage gets table scraps most every night with her food, as well as those times when she looks at me when I'm eating. Doesn't take any supplements, only drinks water. We hunt pretty regular in the fall. She's 10. Has never once showed any signs of wanting to go back to the truck after 200 yards. It takes a couple weeks at the beginning of the season to get back into form, which started when she was 7 1/2 years old. Retrieving ducks is something that I don't train or do much conditioning for and hunting pheasants isn't something that can be replicated, but I do have her run a couple miles a week in September. She does have some arthritis in her back according to x-rays, but does not show symptoms of pain. I do lift her out of the back of the Slongspedition at the end of the hunt, but she jumps in.

Labs have gotten a bad rap because they are a popular breed and, as such, there have been some unscrupulous breeders who have whelped puppies with hip dysplasia issues, EIC issues, etc. But a well bred lab is an entirely different dog than Jim Bob's black lab that got out and made sweet love to the chocolate lab down the road. The notion that a lab is all but done after 5 or 6 years is simply false.
GH,

You and I seem to be a lot alike in regards to the dogs. Whisky gets a few scraps, it just happens. He swims in the lake, off the boat, in the summer. He HATES the heat, thus his activity level in the Arkansas summer is reduced. In the early fall is when we start more conditioning. This past fall we started out walking a bit more and he would run with me as I rode a bicycle. That really helped the both of us for hunting. I also let him run throughout the year in a controlled field (back of a church) where he will put on a couple miles according to his Garmin collar. I also switch up his food during the off-season vs hunting season to a lower calorie food with less fat.

It is interesting you bring up ducks. He loves to hunt them, but he has little patience for sitting in the blind. He is really vocal in the blind. He just wants to run and hunt the uplands. That was his primary courses of training growing up and it is engrained into him I guess.

Go Sage Go!
 
The oldest amigo turned 13 before last season started. At age 12 she hunted every day I did and although sometimes sore the next day, she did great. She didn’t cover the miles of the other two amigos did, she was still around 3x the distance that I covered. Last season was supposed to be retirement time but that idea went over like a fart in church with her. I did limit her hunts and she enjoyed each and every one.
 
Sage gets table scraps most every night with her food, as well as those times when she looks at me when I'm eating. Doesn't take any supplements, only drinks water. We hunt pretty regular in the fall. She's 10. Has never once showed any signs of wanting to go back to the truck after 200 yards. It takes a couple weeks at the beginning of the season to get back into form, which started when she was 7 1/2 years old. Retrieving ducks is something that I don't train or do much conditioning for and hunting pheasants isn't something that can be replicated, but I do have her run a couple miles a week in September. She does have some arthritis in her back according to x-rays, but does not show symptoms of pain. I do lift her out of the back of the Slongspedition at the end of the hunt, but she jumps in.

Labs have gotten a bad rap because they are a popular breed and, as such, there have been some unscrupulous breeders who have whelped puppies with hip dysplasia issues, EIC issues, etc. But a well bred lab is an entirely different dog than Jim Bob's black lab that got out and made sweet love to the chocolate lab down the road. The notion that a lab is all but done after 5 or 6 years is simply false.
I am looking forward to seeing your newest edition and Sage's mentee...
 
Only reason for me that I brought up the table scrap issue is two fold for me......my previous Lab and his brother both developed diabetes after about 4 years. My sister/brother in law had young kids and Mom would watch them alot. Mom also watched both dogs alot. As it played out, the dogs were getting alot of human food, whether it be from the kids messy-ness and clean up by the dogs, or the kids giving them food, or Mom giving then what may be left.
The dogs came from quality bloodlines on both sides with no history of diabetes. None of the other 4 dogs in that litter developed diabetes. Long story short, the only conclusion or explanation was that it was related to the excess human food they were "getting" and the "sugars" in that food. Both dogs were blind by 6 or 7 from the diabetes, which lead to other health issues. Was crazy and tough.
The other reason, is simply I don't want my dog to even consider getting a morsel as an option to start any bad habits.
I have given him fresh garden vegetables such as green beans and such, outside of the house. Mine loves fresh green beans and can be used as a training reward or treat too.
 
Sage gets table scraps most every night with her food, as well as those times when she looks at me when I'm eating. Doesn't take any supplements, only drinks water. We hunt pretty regular in the fall. She's 10. Has never once showed any signs of wanting to go back to the truck after 200 yards. It takes a couple weeks at the beginning of the season to get back into form, which started when she was 7 1/2 years old. Retrieving ducks is something that I don't train or do much conditioning for and hunting pheasants isn't something that can be replicated, but I do have her run a couple miles a week in September. She does have some arthritis in her back according to x-rays, but does not show symptoms of pain. I do lift her out of the back of the Slongspedition at the end of the hunt, but she jumps in.

Labs have gotten a bad rap because they are a popular breed and, as such, there have been some unscrupulous breeders who have whelped puppies with hip dysplasia issues, EIC issues, etc. But a well bred lab is an entirely different dog than Jim Bob's black lab that got out and made sweet love to the chocolate lab down the road. The notion that a lab is all but done after 5 or 6 years is simply false.
I love your youtube channel. I like that most of the times it is just you and Sage out for a good time. The hunts in SD with 10 guys and 6 dogs sweeping a field and everybody yelling isn't that appealing. You do it right. Also Sage reminds me of my first real hunting dog Miley. Keep up the great videos.Screenshot_20240327_120321_Gallery.jpg
 
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