It Looks Grim

Hutcho said:
Man that hits close to home. I grew up in that area. I'm fortunate to have hunted it as a kid when it was decent still, but it was all over by the time I got out of college. Funny about the turkeys, I heard that a lot around there.

I still don't understand how not a thing changed on our family farm, except the quail left. Still blows my mind. We did quit farming and it all went to CRP, but the birds were already gone at that point.

Anyway, didn't mean to detail the arguing. This Convo just took my down memory lane 😁
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You Cheesy and myself are probably about the same age -- What has changed is roundup ready crops, lack of eco/biodiversity and a switch for a lot to beans/corn rotation - limited milo - no dirty wheat fields, loss of CRP etc.

We also fail to take into account that we have the Deertards who all have a corn feeder feeding corn which could potentially be poisoning the birds, also feeding raccoons and opossums, and providing raiding sites for coyotes/owls/hawks, in the name of deer habitat letting cedars/trees run amok etc. It's not the same as it was when we were in HS. There are so many variables that have all changed slowly leading to where we are today. Only an environmental disaster which we will find ourselves in will necessitate any change and we are heading there in western ks.


I disagree with @s.davis on out of state deer hunting - if we severely limited that it would open up more opportunities for locals and other upland hunters. The focus has and always has been and will continue to be on deer by the state and landowners who have glasses that allow them to only see in front of their nose -- they failed to realize the most valuable resource KS had that was being lost in nearly every other state was phenomenal upland bird #'s. You can hunt a stupid white tail in all 50 states - what was scarce and the state and ag industry failed to capitalize on was the amazing upland numbers. Once the CRP started going it was a nail in the coffin -- I've seen white tails and mulies in certain areas plummet once those sanctuaries were gone so it not only affects the birds. KDWP and our moronic elected officials that are hard to get out and will not listen to you unless you come bearing a big check will ride the deer train until we are left with german shepard sized deer and basket racks plentiful all over the south. I'm registered as an independent - no say in either party primary - so impossible to get these whack jobs out - I know I'll be voting against Ken Corbet again. He may win by default since he has an R by his name.

Turkeys have even plummeted and there is no explanation why -- I've read avian flu which could be plausible - who knows - but I wouldnt be surprised if crops could partially be attributed as well. I can't get over how little insects there are in a lot of heavily cropped areas there are. I dont have to clean my windshield much.
 
KsHusker said:
You Cheesy and myself are probably about the same age -- What has changed is roundup ready crops, lack of eco/biodiversity and a switch for a lot to beans/corn rotation - limited milo - no dirty wheat fields, loss of CRP etc.

We also fail to take into account that we have the Deertards who all have a corn feeder feeding corn which could potentially be poisoning the birds, also feeding raccoons and opossums, and providing raiding sites for coyotes/owls/hawks, in the name of deer habitat letting cedars/trees run amok etc. It's not the same as it was when we were in HS. There are so many variables that have all changed slowly leading to where we are today. Only an environmental disaster which we will find ourselves in will necessitate any change and we are heading there in western ks.


I disagree with @s.davis on out of state deer hunting - if we severely limited that it would open up more opportunities for locals and other upland hunters. The focus has and always has been and will continue to be on deer by the state and landowners who have glasses that allow them to only see in front of their nose -- they failed to realize the most valuable resource KS had that was being lost in nearly every other state was phenomenal upland bird #'s. You can hunt a stupid white tail in all 50 states - what was scarce and the state and ag industry failed to capitalize on was the amazing upland numbers. Once the CRP started going it was a nail in the coffin -- I've seen white tails and mulies in certain areas plummet once those sanctuaries were gone so it not only affects the birds. KDWP and our moronic elected officials that are hard to get out and will not listen to you unless you come bearing a big check will ride the deer train until we are left with german shepard sized deer and basket racks plentiful all over the south. I'm registered as an independent - no say in either party primary - so impossible to get these whack jobs out - I know I'll be voting against Ken Corbet again. He may win by default since he has an R by his name.

Turkeys have even plummeted and there is no explanation why -- I've read avian flu which could be plausible - who knows - but I wouldnt be surprised if crops could partially be attributed as well. I can't get over how little insects there are in a lot of heavily cropped areas there are. I dont have to clean my windshield much.
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Iowa has traditionally been the best state to deer hunt in the U.S. But it is night and day difference up there compared to Kansas. No purple paint and very few Leased or Keep Out signs. Simply because they have a lottery and limit NR hunters. Kansas is a circus.
 
BrownDogsCan2 said:
Man so what’s going with Iowa losing so many hunters over the last 30 years
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Resident upland hunters in Kansas and Iowa have declined about 14% in recent years. Iowa has some tough years for pheasant numbers where in the past it rivaled South Dakota. But Kansas is near the top of NR hunters in the U.S. Iowa limits is number of NR deer hunters. WIHA suckers them in.
 
In Iowa around 2009ish we had a couple killer winters back-to-back, it took out most of the birds and a bunch of the hunters and then maybe 5 or 6 years ago there was another winter with too much snow, cold and ice that took the bird numbers down. I think this, plus less and less cover has taken the hunters out (very limited public opportunities locally). The CRP program sign-up in 2015/2016 was a savior for the bird numbers, I am luck enough to have access to 3 parcels most of the time and 2 others at times throughout the season. I have called the CRP parcels "pheasant factories", which is pretty accurate. They nest out there and disburse in the fall and when winter sets-in, they seem to came back as it is usually the best heavy cover available. Ours is in CP38, so we have the food plots also, getting stands of conifiers next to it, so it is a bird paradise! I grew-up pheasant hunting and it is important to me. I spend many too much of my money and time improving our habitat. If I didn't have the ground to do this on, I would be more active in Pheasants Forever helping others create this habitat. The high commodity prices are again going to make any new habitat projects (including CRP sign-ups) rare. Landowners would attend the local PF banquits are the ones to work on, but those are also the ones with the current habitat.
 
westksbowhunter said:
Iowa has traditionally been the best state to deer hunt in the U.S. But it is night and day difference up there compared to Kansas. No purple paint and very few Leased or Keep Out signs. Simply because they have a lottery and limit NR hunters. Kansas is a circus.
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Iowa still has more deer hunters than Kansas, somewhere around was twice as many, in about 2/3rds as much land, with approximately the same amount of public land. I don't know how a person could imagine that there's not deer leases and posted no trespassing signs and purple paint in Iowa. I hunt there about as much as Kansas, now, and there's much less land open to bird hunting in Iowa than Kansas. It's as goofy as the idea that only non-residents hunt WIHAs in Kansas.

What's more, just like Kansas, they constantly pimp out their upland hunting, every year practically begging people to come pheasant hunt in Iowa.
 
s.davis said:
Iowa still has more deer hunters than Kansas, somewhere around was twice as many, in about 2/3rds as much land, with approximately the same amount of public land. I don't know how a person could imagine that there's not deer leases and posted no trespassing signs and purple paint in Iowa. I hunt there about as much as Kansas, now, and there's much less land open to bird hunting in Iowa than Kansas.
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I don't imagine it, I see it. Not near the signs in Iowa. 9500 NR tags (3500 antlerless I believe) in Iowa vs 49,000 total NR tags in Kansas (including antlerless and NR Landowner).
 
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You see what you want to see to confirm your OOSer boogeyman is real.

Iowa: 264K deer tags sold in a state of 56,000 sq. miles with 300,000 acres of public hunting land and 29,000 acres of walk-in hunting 445,000 deer

vs.

Kansas: 183K deer tags sold in a state of 82,000 sq miles with 300,000 acres of public hunting land and 1 million acres of walk-in hunting 700,000 deer
 
s.davis said:
You see what you want to see to confirm your OOSer boogeyman is real.

Iowa: 264K deer tags sold in a state of 56,000 sq. miles with 300,000 acres of public hunting land and 29,000 acres of walk-in hunting 445,000 deer

vs.

Kansas: 183K deer tags sold in a state of 82,000 sq miles with 300,000 acres of public hunting land and 1 million acres of walk-in hunting 700,000 deer
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This has nothing to do with Kansas having 3 times as many NR deer hunters as Iowa does. NR hunting is what drove up leasing, and land prices. Iowa also doesn't have hunters driving around with hi powers chasing deer. Kansas had a deer population that went from under 400,000 to 700,000 around what time frame? The mid 90's!!! No one who bow hunted here during the 70's and 80's believe those numbers. Legislature uses that false number to justify giving out NR tags. They use car/deer collisions to determine that number, supposedly. Lloyd and I had a very lengthy discussion about this 15 years ago. Funny that Iowa ranks in the top 10 in deer collisions and Kansas ranks 19 yet they claim we have twice as many deer. I see deer everywhere in Iowa.
 
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westksbowhunter said:
I don't imagine it, I see it. Not near the signs in Iowa. 9500 NR tags (3500 antlerless I believe) in Iowa vs 49,000 total NR tags in Kansas (including antlerless and NR Landowner).
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When am I meeting you in Iowa -- Have 2 setters ready to go - they have not seen enough roosters since I've been focusing on quail mainly.

You want someone to go I'm game. Been a long time since I've had a good pheasant hunt. Those are hard to come by in my usual haunts anymore.
 
Maybe, but there's no deer leases in Iowa and no purple paint or keep out signs. It's like the open range up there.
 
Iowa has deer leases all over. And no purple paint because you have to have landowner permission to step foot on the ground or your trespassing. In areas with quality deer it’s almost impossible to get permission. Also with blue tongue deer populations are still low. Iowa also has very little public land.
 
Not to mention that as a non-resident, you have to enter a lottery to draw a deer hunting permit in Iowa. The fee to just apply is like 50 bucks and if you draw one the cost is almost 500 bucks. You might as well just go across the river and hunt in Wisconsin where there is just as many deer, no lottery, and it costs you less than 200 dollars.
 
Our part of the state of Iowa, we have pockets of cover. If that cover is trees, it is full of deer, it if is grass, weeds, cat tails, it is full of pheasants. I could hunt 3 or 4 different places some mornings if needed. The permission is the hard part here....little public ground. If out of state (or even out of the area) hunters are here (pheasant hunting), they likely have family here. Same with deer hunting or they MIGHT have leased something, not enough bigger tracts to bother with leasing near me. CRP fields are the biggest tracts we would have here. The few timbered hills with any size are usually owned by or rented to, cattle producers that control or do the deer hunting. Southern and eastern Iowa I am sure is completely different, and nothing like Kansas I am assuming. We learn to deal with what we have or go where we can get better hunting opportunities. Getting a break from the heat today here, maybe things are changing, sure would like a nice rain!
 
You don't say...so, Iowa has access obstacles even though the deer hunters there aren't mostly from out of state. Who'd a thunk it?
 
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