I’ve never once said that. I have absolutely no problem with out of state hunters. Many of them are my good friends.
It’s your disdain for this state and it’s people that I take umbrage at.
It Looks Grim
- Thread starter westksbowhunter
- Start date
It’s your disdain for this state and it’s people that I take umbrage at.
I'm guessing he's from Colorado - if so that explains a lot. A lot of disparaging comments about people who live here.
We probably have more in common than he thinks - most of us realize the Big Ag system is broken - I probably disagree with him about what has caused climate change but recognize it's there.
Citizens having a say in wildlife practices -- not happening - we have corruption in our government at the state to the Federal level - I'll say this out loud - most deserve to be shot or put away in jail for a long time for the crimes committed against the electorate. Same goes for the fat cats that buy them out. But really if you study US history any - it seems to be a recurring theme since the founding of our country - is what it is and beats living in many other places. There's just a lot of evil and greed in this world.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
It does happen, just look at what Randy Wood did in Kansas. However, he was a resident of Ohio. Now citizens in Kansas really do not have a say. If you can convince them that revenue will be generated, then they will listen, but they just seem to have no interest in conservation and habitat. Programs are needed, and I listed 3 or 4 examples. What needs to happen is for the KDWP to convince the Legislature to let them do there job. How that happens I don't know.
birddude
Well-known member
To change the subject back some. This may sound crazy, and the logistics wouldn't be simple. There has been some talk for a while about helping out the extreme amount of fertilizer flowing into the gulf from the Mississippi by building these gigantic retention lakes to try and divert some of it. Why not pipe the extra water from them during flood levels to states that need it? I know a lot of people have said (I wish we could send some of these flood waters out west). Maybe it's time to give it some serious thought. The west is dying of thirst and we here in the lower Midwest are drowning!
s.davis
Well-known member
Again, we largely agree. What I'm trying to tell you, is that I do know how that happens. It's literally what I do for a living. And I do it with a much, much worse state government than the one in Kansas. I can assure you, brow-beating the conservation agency for not putting out a really bad pheasant report (in a state that is consistently one of the top 3 states for bird harvest), just because pheasant hunting isn't as good as it was 30 years ago is not how the sausage gets made.
Maybe you can fool people like "Kansan" who didn't live in Kansas in 1995, but I did, and I remember everyone then complained about how bad the bird hunting had gotten, how all their hunting spots had gotten sold off, how it wasn't like the 80s when farmers would drive around in converted school busses dropping off walkers and blockers, how the kids went off to college in Lawrence and didn't come back to for opener anymore, how they used to hunt quail with no dogs just outside Chanute and put up 6 or 7 coveys before noon, how they "used to hunt but quit cause there aren't many birds left" and then usually said it was because turkeys ate the pheasant and quail eggs.
Citori16 can pout all he wants about politics (and 4th grade girls), but agriculture is the most socialist industry in America after cops, fire departments and the military. And you can not change a policy problem without politics. Ask the 4th grade girls who just defeated the abortion amendment.
carptom1
Well-known member
That is how it has always felt. The thing they don’t realize is if they halved the acres and tiered the payments based on what improvements you made to the land, they would be overrun with out of state hunters wanting to hunt here. But this requires foresight, intelligence and smart planning. All strong strong suits in our elected officials here.
Again, you put words in my mouth. I have no doubt that the hunting (for everything) was a lot better before my time. I have also not been “fooled” by the KDWP. I have plenty of the same grievances with them, as we all do. I was born here, live here, will die here, and spend every day out here. I know what the situation actually looks like.
s.davis
Well-known member
Less WIHA focused on better habitat is an excellent jumping off point. I know I've thought for a while that they should expand iWIHA and limit the amount of daily hunters based on carrying capacity of the property, then charge a fee for iWIHA access, similar to what Minnesota does, with an annual stamp. And, at some point, you guys are going to have to hold accountable the welfare queen farmers who take gubmint WIHA cheese but don't maintain huntable land. That's another bit of low-hanging fruit that doesn't require a policy change, but just needs enforcement.
I don't hunt much WIHA or public ground in Kansas, maybe a couple times a season, but I drive by a lot, and if you think the trucks parked at Kansas WIHAs are all OOSers, you're not being honest with yourself. It's a good program, its a net positive for Kansas hunters, but it's not perfect and it needs some tweaking. There's a fair bit of corruption in it at this point, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
If ending all sales of nonresident deer licenses or publishing a pheasant report that said "it sucks here" would restore good pheasant hunting to Kansas, I'd be all for it, but it's just not the case.
I don't hunt much WIHA or public ground in Kansas, maybe a couple times a season, but I drive by a lot, and if you think the trucks parked at Kansas WIHAs are all OOSers, you're not being honest with yourself. It's a good program, its a net positive for Kansas hunters, but it's not perfect and it needs some tweaking. There's a fair bit of corruption in it at this point, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
If ending all sales of nonresident deer licenses or publishing a pheasant report that said "it sucks here" would restore good pheasant hunting to Kansas, I'd be all for it, but it's just not the case.
s.davis
Well-known member
Hey look, I'm sure you have legitimate grievances, but no one is putting words in your mouth. You've probably posted 15 times on this board about how they sold the first nonresident license in 1995 and then everything went wrong. It's just nonsense. They have nonresident deer hunting in South Dakota and there's still pheasants there, ditto North Dakota (where they regularly don't harvest as many pheasants as Kansas), ditto Iowa (which harvested more the last 2 years), ditto everywhere with pheasants. Correlation does not prove causation, however, lack of correlation does disprove causation.
There some stuff I'm not gonna post on this board that I know about the KDWP, some of it is egregious and corrupt. It's neither perfect nor the best wildlife department in the country (or even a particularly good one), but you seem to think attacking the symptoms will cure the disease and it won't. There wouldn't be a bird or a deer left in Kansas without the KDWP, though. You don't have to take my word for it, it already happened once in the 50 year span between when the first white people (among them my great-great grandparents) came to Kansas and 1900. Sorry the bird report is too rosy for your tastes. I guess I can read very mild propaganda and not get mad at strangers on the internet when they tell me "oh, man, just ignore it".
No, I have not posted that. That’s westksbowhunter’s perspective on things. You must be confusing the two of us.
I’m a young buck, born in ‘97, so I can not say what things were like in regards to hunting in the 90’s. I only have what I’ve heard from others.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
I agree and you are describing Iowa's IHAP program. So much of WIHA is not really huntable but what they will tell you is that to get the good 160 they had to take the other 320 acres of fenced barren cattle pasture. Just don't take the good ground and put that money towards another landowner who does care. They should require a stamp to hunt all public ground and should have a check in and check out whether it be written or through a phone app. It would not stop most road hunting but they might be able to catch a few that drive by, jump out and shoot. There was talk about require a stamp about 12 years ago and some of the KDWP workers wanted it but many didn't.That is how it has always felt. The thing they don’t realize is if they halved the acres and tiered the payments based on what improvements you made to the land, they would be overrun with out of state hunters wanting to hunt here. But this requires foresight, intelligence and smart planning. All strong strong suits in our elected officials here.
s.davis
Well-known member
You are right, I am wrong. I thought I was responding to a westkansasbowhunter post, didn't realize it was yours.
No worries, friend.
Hutcho
Active member
Man that hits close to home. I grew up in that area. I'm fortunate to have hunted it as a kid when it was decent still, but it was all over by the time I got out of college. Funny about the turkeys, I heard that a lot around there.
I still don't understand how not a thing changed on our family farm, except the quail left. Still blows my mind. We did quit farming and it all went to CRP, but the birds were already gone at that point.
Anyway, didn't mean to detail the arguing. This Convo just took my down memory lane
cheesy
Well-known member
Same here, graduated high school in 98, grew up catching the tail end slide of quail hunting around there, and pretty much by the time I was done with college and moved out of state in 2003 it was basically all over.Man that hits close to home. I grew up in that area. I'm fortunate to have hunted it as a kid when it was decent still, but it was all over by the time I got out of college. Funny about the turkeys, I heard that a lot around there.
I still don't understand how not a thing changed on our family farm, except the quail left. Still blows my mind. We did quit farming and it all went to CRP, but the birds were already gone at that point.
Anyway, didn't mean to detail the arguing. This Convo just took my down memory lane
Dad did say he heard 2 different bobwhites whistling last week behind the house though.
Hutcho
Active member
Graduated at chanute? Altoona Midway class of 04 here.
cheesy
Well-known member
Neodesha. I’m certain we know a lot of the same people then.
I actually did decently on quail around home last season (Chautauqua and Montgomery Counties). I could usually put up 4 or so nice coveys in a few hours of hunting.
If you stop and listen in my part of SEK, you will hear quite a few whistling. Not a ton of them by any means, but there are birds around.