It Looks Grim

Yep, I say screw those welfare queen farmers. Do completely away with wiha then all you whiners can hunt on the 1.9 percent of public ground in Kansas. Why on earth would you expect guys to sell cows during a drought, so you can have taller grass to hunt, on ground they own? Some crazy people on here.
 
Diesel 74 said:
Yep, I say screw those welfare queen farmers. Do completely away with wiha then all you whiners can hunt on the 1.9 percent of public ground in Kansas. Why on earth would you expect guys to sell cows during a drought, so you can have taller grass to hunt, on ground they own? Some crazy people on here.
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How in the heck did we manage to hunt prior to 1995 and the WIHA program? Landowners own the land and should be able to do what they want. However, they should not be able to collect a WIHA payment when their ground doesn't support habitat. Farmers are not the only people who are hurting from the drought, inflation, etc. We all pay the price and we all choose our own professions. And yes, we do need to do away with WIHA and put money into a program that has habitat as its #1 priority and not hunter access. Doing what is best for wildlife and not hunters should be the goal of the KDWP. If you feel otherwise, you are the crazy one.
 
westksbowhunter said:
How in the heck did we manage to hunt prior to 1995 and the WIHA program? Landowners own the land and should be able to do what they want. However, they should not be able to collect a WIHA payment when their ground doesn't support habitat. Farmers are not the only people who are hurting from the drought, inflation, etc. We all pay the price and we all choose our own professions. And yes, we do need to do away with WIHA and put money into a program that has habitat as its #1 priority and not hunter access. Doing what is best for wildlife and not hunters should be the goal of the KDWP. If you feel otherwise, you are the crazy one.
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Prior to 2000 very few outfiters where in KS. Since then large chunks of land that farms would allow freelance on has since been leased up. Now access is much harder to get than it was 25 years ago. The world keeps changing and they WIHA system needs to change with it.
 
Kansasoutdoorsman said:
Prior to 2000 very few outfiters where in KS. Since then large chunks of land that farms would allow freelance on has since been leased up. Now access is much harder to get than it was 25 years ago. The world keeps changing and they WIHA system needs to change with it.
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Yep agree. Deer hunting has taken away access for upland hunters, rabbit hunters, coyote hunters, duck hunters, fisherman, etc. I have lost access to many farm ponds that I used to fish due to NR leases for deer hunting.
 
westksbowhunter said:
Yep agree. Deer hunting has taken away access for upland hunters, rabbit hunters, coyote hunters, duck hunters, fisherman, etc. I have lost access to many farm ponds that I used to fish due to NR leases for deer hunting.
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This in my humble opinion has been and is the root of MOST of the problems KS has been fighting for years with regards to land and land access.
 
Diesel 74 said:
Yep, I say screw those welfare queen farmers. Do completely away with wiha then all you whiners can hunt on the 1.9 percent of public ground in Kansas. Why on earth would you expect guys to sell cows during a drought, so you can have taller grass to hunt, on ground they own? Some crazy people on here.
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The leasing of worthless subpar WIHA ground has been going on for 10+ years and has only gotten worse as of late. Don’t kid yourself and try to blame it on drought years.
 
Kansascutter said:
The leasing of worthless subpar WIHA ground has been going on for 10+ years and has only gotten worse as of late. Don’t kid yourself and try to blame it on drought years.
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Im not kidding myself. Not defending kdwp. I'm just astonished at the sense of entitlement some on here have.
 
Just read through this thread, lots of ideas on how producers should manage their land to improve your recreation.
I thought long and hard about replying, I knew my opinions would not be popular. I am a farmer who hunts birds. I do hunt a lot of wiha, am I disappointed when I find one with poor habitat, of course. Do i expect a producer to take a financial hit to improve my hunting? No, never will. West's statement after his dove hunt " these guys know how to work the system." How do you know the system was worked? Did you ask the landowner if he was paid for allowing hunting? Did you ask him if he violated the agreement he had with kdwp by moving cattle to this location? No you didn't, you got on a forum and made a bunch of assumptions to get people pissed off. Did the cattle ruin your dove hunt? Was he supposed to sell those cows or feed hay so you have better hunting? This is Walk In Hunting, not Walk In Upland Bird Hunting. My guess is doves aren't the only huntable game on this ground. You had a couple good hunts and I imagine others will also, so I would consider this a success.
I have followed this forum for 5 years or so. Same complaints from the same people every time. Pheasants Forever suck, KDWP sucks, farmers suck. How about getting involved with these people and actually try to implement your ideas, I'm sure a lot of them are good. Or just keep complaining and threatening to move to Iowa.
 
Diesel 74 said:
Just read through this thread, lots of ideas on how producers should manage their land to improve your recreation.
I thought long and hard about replying, I knew my opinions would not be popular. I am a farmer who hunts birds. I do hunt a lot of wiha, am I disappointed when I find one with poor habitat, of course. Do i expect a producer to take a financial hit to improve my hunting? No, never will. West's statement after his dove hunt " these guys know how to work the system." How do you know the system was worked? Did you ask the landowner if he was paid for allowing hunting? Did you ask him if he violated the agreement he had with kdwp by moving cattle to this location? No you didn't, you got on a forum and made a bunch of assumptions to get people pissed off. Did the cattle ruin your dove hunt? Was he supposed to sell those cows or feed hay so you have better hunting? This is Walk In Hunting, not Walk In Upland Bird Hunting. My guess is doves aren't the only huntable game on this ground. You had a couple good hunts and I imagine others will also, so I would consider this a success.
I have followed this forum for 5 years or so. Same complaints from the same people every time. Pheasants Forever suck, KDWP sucks, farmers suck. How about getting involved with these people and actually try to implement your ideas, I'm sure a lot of them are good. Or just keep complaining and threatening to move to Iowa.
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The primary gripe on this thread is that landowners should not get paid for WIHA land when the habitat is terrible or considerably altered for the worse between signing the contract and hunting season. If they are going to be paid to lease their land, there should be stipulations that require at least some habitat maintenance/improvement; must leave field borders, a percentage of nesting/escape cover not overgrazed/hayed, etc. Seems like a totally reasonable and fair complaint. The state needs to decrease the amount of WIHA and pay more for quality habitat in my opinion.
 
But are they being paid? No one has said at least, definitively, if they are. Rather than throw out blanket statements give specific examples of wiha tracts that are completely devoid of huntable game that the landowner was paid for. There used to be a KDWP account on this site, would be nice if they would comment. My wife's family has several half sections west of where I farm enrolled, they are hayed but I still shoot birds on them. My opinion is they should be paid. Haying apparently doesn't scare off all the birds, there is also still small game and deer on those tracts. Am I wrong in thinking they deserve payment when I still shoot wildlife on their ground?
 
Diesel 74 said:
But are they being paid? No one has said at least, definitively, if they are. Rather than throw out blanket statements give specific examples of wiha tracts that are completely devoid of huntable game that the landowner was paid for. There used to be a KDWP account on this site, would be nice if they would comment. Myn wife's family has several half sections west of where I farm enrolled, they are hayed but I still shoot birds on them. My opinion is they should be paid. Haying apparently doesn't scare off all the birds, there is also still small game and deer on those tracts. Am I wrong in thinking they deserve payment when I still shoot wildlife on their ground?
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I guess you are missing the point. Many of us want a different a program. We are not blaming landowners, we are blaming, what I see, as a system that doesn't work. One that really doesn't benefit landowners or wildlife. I want to see landowners get paid for doing improvements to habitat. Pay them much more than what WIHA pays. Something different than WIHA. Personally, I hunt very little WIHA. But if I am going to hunt it, I expect it to have prime habitat. I would rather see 50,000 acres of WIHA with great habitat, with the landowner and KDWP working together to keep making improvements versus 1 million acres of what we have now. And pay those landowners much more.
 
Diesel 74 said:
Just read through this thread, lots of ideas on how producers should manage their land to improve your recreation.
I thought long and hard about replying, I knew my opinions would not be popular. I am a farmer who hunts birds. I do hunt a lot of wiha, am I disappointed when I find one with poor habitat, of course. Do i expect a producer to take a financial hit to improve my hunting? No, never will. West's statement after his dove hunt " these guys know how to work the system." How do you know the system was worked? Did you ask the landowner if he was paid for allowing hunting? Did you ask him if he violated the agreement he had with kdwp by moving cattle to this location? No you didn't, you got on a forum and made a bunch of assumptions to get people pissed off. Did the cattle ruin your dove hunt? Was he supposed to sell those cows or feed hay so you have better hunting? This is Walk In Hunting, not Walk In Upland Bird Hunting. My guess is doves aren't the only huntable game on this ground. You had a couple good hunts and I imagine others will also, so I would consider this a success.
I have followed this forum for 5 years or so. Same complaints from the same people every time. Pheasants Forever suck, KDWP sucks, farmers suck. How about getting involved with these people and actually try to implement your ideas, I'm sure a lot of them are good. Or just keep complaining and threatening to move to Iowa.
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That tract is not safe to hunt now for a hunter or for the cattle.
 
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Diesel 74 said:
But are they being paid? No one has said at least, definitively, if they are.
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I'm not from KS, but yes they are paid. Taken right from the KDWP website:

Landowners receive a modest payment in exchange for allowing public hunting access. Payments vary by the amount of acres enrolled and length of contract period.
 
westksbowhunter said:
I guess you are missing the point. Many of us want a different a program. We are not blaming landowners, we are blaming, what I see, as a system that doesn't work. One that really doesn't benefit landowners or wildlife. I want to see landowners get paid for doing improvements to habitat. Pay them much more than what WIHA pays. Something different than WIHA. Personally, I hunt very little WIHA. But if I am going to hunt it, I expect it to have prime habitat. I would rather see 50,000 acres of WIHA with great habitat, with the landowner and KDWP working together to keep making improvements versus 1 million acres of what we have now. And pay those landowners much more.
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I'm not missing anything. Saying "these guys know how to work the system" is directly blaming landowners. You hunt very little wiha but want to see a 95% decrease in availability? That won't be very helpful to people who don't have local access.

Last thing I want to do is get into a personal argument. We never will agree on a lot of things, just different perspectives. I do however wish people would come up with solutions rather than the same old complaints. Anyway, I'm about done on this subject, I wish you luck this season.
 
Munster927 said:
I'm not from KS, but yes they are paid. Taken right from the KDWP website:

Landowners receive a modest payment in exchange for allowing public hunting access. Payments vary by the amount of acres enrolled and length of contract period.
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Right and they also say some ground is not paid for. The landowners sign it up with ground that does receive a payment. Also taken from the wiha atlas:" if habitat was negatively impacted by the cooperator following signing payment reduction will occur"
 
Diesel 74 said:
I'm not missing anything. Saying "these guys know how to work the system" is directly blaming landowners. You hunt very little wiha but want to see a 95% decrease in availability? That won't be very helpful to people who don't have local access.

Last thing I want to do is get into a personal argument. We never will agree on a lot of things, just different perspectives. I do however wish people would come up with solutions rather than the same old complaints. Anyway, I'm about done on this subject, I wish you luck this season.
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No I am blaming the system. Which is why I said "system". I can see how you're offended but not the intention. My apologies, but I can't help but think there is a much better way to run WIHA or to scrap the program and come up with a better alternative.
 
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