It Looks Grim

gimruis said:
Minnesota is the same way when it comes to priority for hunting. Deer hunting is king here and nothing else is even close. In fact, deer hunting has more hunters than everything else COMBINED. There are about half a million deer hunters here in MN (firearms, archery, and muzzle loader). Pheasant hunters has about 75,000 participants last time they checked. I can't say I blame a state agency for trying to focus their efforts and resources toward the most popular game hunted. Its kind of like walleye fishing. The walleye is king here in the freshwater fishing realm, and more stocking efforts and resources are directed toward that species than everything else.

Its kind of what separates a state like South Dakota. Clearly, pheasant hunting is the king there. In every other state, its not.

Several years ago, the governor of MN mandated buffers along ditches and waterways here in the state. No more row crop planting right up to the edge. It definitely ruffled some feathers but it makes a difference not only in terms of habitat preservation, but improved water quality.
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I like Iowa's IHAP program much better than Kansas WIHA. At least with IHAP there is some habitat improvement. With WIHA, you get cattle grazed and mowed CRP that is not huntable. And Colorado has the C4C, Corners 4 Conservation. I just don't see Kansas offering anything that improves habitat going forward. Just advertising for a million plus acres of public land and high bag limits.
 
westksbowhunter said:
Not really true. I don't think GettothePoint was blaming the KDWP, however, they do give a false report. And they are to blame in that they throw away money on the WIHA program that really does nothing for pheasant numbers, but does allow them to advertise a million acres of public hunting to draw NR hunters. WIHA is a program to target NR hunters. They would be better off using that money to go toward habitat improvement. But that doesn't bring in the money. For pheasant numbers to improve, the KDWP has to work with private landowners, something they seem to be unwilling to do. Giving private landowners money to enroll in the WIHA program does nothing for habitat improvement. They have also been guilty of catering to deer hunting only and not doing anything for upland hunting. Their focus is deer hunting only. So they do share some of the blame along with private landowners. Something simple, like not allowing farmers to plant crops to the edge of the road or putting a ban on mowing state owned ditches and right aways. I have a fried who runs a road grader for the county and mows the ditches. He says countless times he will look behind him and see chicks flopping from being ran over when mowing. There is a lot of small things the KDWP could do, but they give in to private landowners and to special interest groups like Ten Point Crossbows, Randy Wood, and Ken Corbet.
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The ditch mowing is a huge pet peeve of mine, the money spent and the habitat destroyed in that "service" is mind blowing to me. They mow our ditches in our entire county at least twice a year. Let alone the fuel we are burning in those new tractors we've paid for there is stuff I see mowed over in the ditches that I'm guessing those repair bills are significant also. Don't want to sidetrack this thread to a blame game as mother nature trumps all the other issues but weather is surely not the only limiting factor for bird numbers these days. I just find kdwp's marketing scheme extremely misleading and humorous.
 
GetTothePoint said:
The ditch mowing is a huge pet peeve of mine, the money spent and the habitat destroyed in that "service" is mind blowing to me. They mow our ditches in our entire county at least twice a year. Let alone the fuel we are burning in those new tractors we've paid for there is stuff I see mowed over in the ditches that I'm guessing those repair bills are significant also. Don't want to sidetrack this thread to a blame game as mother nature trumps all the other issues but weather is surely not the only limiting factor for bird numbers these days. I just find kdwp's marketing scheme extremely misleading and humorous.
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I 100% agree. And I hope that the KDWP would operate with conservation at the top of the priority list with revenue finishing last. By putting revenue last, you would move residents higher on the list. There is a reason that NR Deer Hunting and WIHA started together in the same year, 1995. And the KDWP is not to blame for that, this one goes to the KS Legislature, which should keep their hand out of the KDWP pot.
 
All of what you are saying makes sense, re: ditch mowing, etc. But KDWP doesn't have the ability to regulate ag practices in Kansas. If you think ditch mowing prohibitions "ruffled some feathers" in moderate, polite and comparatively sane rural Minnesota, the shrieking temper tantrums such a move would cause in rural Kansas would be deafening, and KWDP isn't in charge of mowing public rights of way in Kansas, either. WIHA is a tool that KDWP was forced to use by the people and politics of Kansas in order to creatively provide some amount of public hunting - including for residents. And yes, the KDWP is heavily reliant on out of state hunting revenue, which we've been over on these forums before ad nauseum. But every other state in the pheasant belt has copied the WIHA program, even South Dakota, even Montana, a western state with ample public land. It's not some conspiracy to put the squeeze on resident hunters. The KDWP is handcuffed by decisions Kansans make, over and over and over again, at the ballot box. They cannot "operate with conservation at the top priority with revenue finishing last" because no one else in Kansas will invest any money, or any political capitol, in conservation, and without it, they can't operate at all.
 
westksbowhunter said:
Not really true. I don't think GettothePoint was blaming the KDWP, however, they do give a false report. And they are to blame in that they throw away money on the WIHA program that really does nothing for pheasant numbers, but does allow them to advertise a million acres of public hunting to draw NR hunters. WIHA is a program to target NR hunters. They would be better off using that money to go toward habitat improvement. But that doesn't bring in the money. For pheasant numbers to improve, the KDWP has to work with private landowners, something they seem to be unwilling to do. Giving private landowners money to enroll in the WIHA program does nothing for habitat improvement. They have also been guilty of catering to deer hunting only and not doing anything for upland hunting. Their focus is deer hunting only. So they do share some of the blame along with private landowners. Something simple, like not allowing farmers to plant crops to the edge of the road or putting a ban on mowing state owned ditches and right aways. I have a fried who runs a road grader for the county and mows the ditches. He says countless times he will look behind him and see chicks flopping from being ran over when mowing. There is a lot of small things the KDWP could do, but they give in to private landowners and to special interest groups like Ten Point Crossbows, Randy Wood, and Ken Corbet.
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That's 100% truth -- Ken Corbett is my state rep and I can't stand him. His place isn't far from where I live I believe.
 
s.davis said:
All of what you are saying makes sense, re: ditch mowing, etc. But KDWP doesn't have the ability to regulate ag practices in Kansas. If you think ditch mowing prohibitions "ruffled some feathers" in moderate, polite and comparatively sane rural Minnesota, the shrieking temper tantrums such a move would cause in rural Kansas would be deafening, and KWDP isn't in charge of mowing public rights of way in Kansas, either. WIHA is a tool that KDWP was forced to use by the people and politics of Kansas in order to creatively provide some amount of public hunting - including for residents. And yes, the KDWP is heavily reliant on out of state hunting revenue, which we've been over on these forums before ad nauseum. But every other state in the pheasant belt has copied the WIHA program, even South Dakota, even Montana, a western state with ample public land. It's not some conspiracy to put the squeeze on resident hunters. The KDWP is handcuffed by decisions Kansans make, over and over and over again, at the ballot box. They cannot "operate with conservation at the top priority with revenue finishing last" because no one else in Kansas will invest any money, or any political capitol, in conservation, and without it, they can't operate at all.
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They can put their money else where and not into WIHA. Whether or not the KDWP is handcuffed doesn't change the fact that they are the voice of Kansas residents who hunt and fish. They can't control private ag but they can work with private ag and implement programs like IHAP or Corners to benefit all wildlife. While it may not be a conspiracy to squeeze KS residents, it is a conspiracy to bring in as many NR as possible.
 
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s.davis said:
All of what you are saying makes sense, re: ditch mowing, etc. But KDWP doesn't have the ability to regulate ag practices in Kansas. If you think ditch mowing prohibitions "ruffled some feathers" in moderate, polite and comparatively sane rural Minnesota, the shrieking temper tantrums such a move would cause in rural Kansas would be deafening, and KWDP isn't in charge of mowing public rights of way in Kansas, either. WIHA is a tool that KDWP was forced to use by the people and politics of Kansas in order to creatively provide some amount of public hunting - including for residents. And yes, the KDWP is heavily reliant on out of state hunting revenue, which we've been over on these forums before ad nauseum. But every other state in the pheasant belt has copied the WIHA program, even South Dakota, even Montana, a western state with ample public land. It's not some conspiracy to put the squeeze on resident hunters. The KDWP is handcuffed by decisions Kansans make, over and over and over again, at the ballot box. They cannot "operate with conservation at the top priority with revenue finishing last" because no one else in Kansas will invest any money, or any political capitol, in conservation, and without it, they can't operate at all.
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Insert eye roll - this is far from the truth - KS Residents have been against these policies for years - The KDWP Secretary is a governor appointment and everyone from Dems to Repubs have appointed garbage to lead the dept going back to the late 90s.

The Wildlife commission who also set some policy are also gov't appointments. Bottom line is Governor Hayden years ago screwed things up and continued to line his pockets and his friends and relatives while he was Sec of Wildlife and parks.

Residents unfortunately do not have much say. Worthless orgs such as Pheasants forever are no help since KS is not close enough to their HQ for the PF big wigs to care. DU, Nature Conservancy and NWTF are about the only orgs who can and will do anything.

Short sightedness is what has led to our present problem. Our deer hunting is becoming a joke and just goes out to the highest bidder. I still hope and pray all of our white tails or most of them die from EHD or some other such plague so we can rid ourselves of a lot of the commercialization that has taken place. Maybe it won't happen - who knows.

I've lost hope things will change for the better. Until then I'll enjoy what we have but know my kids will never experience what I was blessed with. Will continue to write down my goal of moving out of state when the time is right.

The continued depletion of the Ogallallah aquifer and continued allowance of tree encroachment on the grasslands and ever present spraying of Big Ag's environmental poisons will continue to destroy our eco system on the great plains. It will not heal until we turn it into a wasteland then take eons and long after i'm dead to repair itself. I hardly had many bugs to clean off my Yukons windshield much less bumper or headlights through 1100 or so miles of driving. The signs are there of what we are doing - few people notice or only take the micro view.
 
westksbowhunter said:
They can put their money else where and not into WIHA. Whether or not the KDWP is handcuffed doesn't change the fact that they are the voice of Kansas residents who hunt and fish. They can't control private ag but they can implement programs like IHAP or Corners to benefit all wildlife. While it may not be a conspiracy to squeeze KS residents, it is a conspiracy to bring in as many NR as possible.
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Do I think WIHA could be better managed, from here in the same armchair I sat in second guessing Andy Reid's playcalling for 8 years? Yes. But that doesn't make it a conspiracy. Nor does wanting people to come to Kansas to hunt. That's just what normal places do. Also, residents hunt WIHAs, and they hunt all the other KDWP managed areas. It's a conspiracy to figure out a way for people to have places to hunt in a state with almost no public land, including all the people in Kansas, most of whom don't live on milo farms. 75% of Kansas live in cities or towns. It's really just as simple as that.

I'm just not sure what one would expect the KDWP pheasant forecast to say. Maybe:

"Kansas's pheasant population is in total freefall. A couple generations of poisoning and raping the land, combined with a loudly professed belief that it is everyone's "right" to do so if they paid enough money to a bank, and an obviously changing climate that we refuse to acknowledge because if we do gas could get so expensive that we can only afford to drive to things more than 1000 yards away and we might have to eat food that's boring and doesn't make us wildly obese or give us cancer, have combined to decimate a lot of wildlife. Unfortunately, pheasants are one of them. We are relying on magical thinking to pull us out this. Meanwhile, even though we don't have a good economy and our cities and towns look like incredibly spread out ghettos, we would ask that you not come here and spend money unless you are already here and don't have much to spend. That way Larry can can hunt the old Mazek place out by Victoria 2 or 3 times a season, which is now owned by a multi-national conglomerate, just like he did before 1997. Lately he has seen a lot of license plates that were from other states and it really fires him up in a bad way, plus he hasn't shot a "good buck" in a while, and that's really what we are here for. Try Iowa."
 
KsHusker said:
Insert eye roll - this is far from the truth - KS Residents have been against these policies for years - The KDWP Secretary is a governor appointment and everyone from Dems to Repubs have appointed garbage to lead the dept going back to the late 90s.

The Wildlife commission who also set some policy are also gov't appointments. Bottom line is Governor Hayden years ago screwed things up and continued to line his pockets and his friends and relatives while he was Sec of Wildlife and parks.

Residents unfortunately do not have much say. Worthless orgs such as Pheasants forever are no help since KS is not close enough to their HQ for the PF big wigs to care. DU, Nature Conservancy and NWTF are about the only orgs who can and will do anything.

Short sightedness is what has led to our present problem. Our deer hunting is becoming a joke and just goes out to the highest bidder. I still hope and pray all of our white tails or most of them die from EHD or some other such plague so we can rid ourselves of a lot of the commercialization that has taken place. Maybe it won't happen - who knows.

I've lost hope things will change for the better. Until then I'll enjoy what we have but know my kids will never experience what I was blessed with. Will continue to write down my goal of moving out of state when the time is right.

The continued depletion of the Ogallallah aquifer and continued allowance of tree encroachment on the grasslands and ever present spraying of Big Ag's environmental poisons will continue to destroy our eco system on the great plains. It will not heal until we turn it into a wasteland then take eons and long after i'm dead to repair itself. I hardly had many bugs to clean off my Yukons windshield much less bumper or headlights through 1100 or so miles of driving. The signs are there of what we are doing - few people notice or only take the micro view.
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I mean, you are kind of right. But, who elected the governors and reps and senators in Kansas? OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSers?
 
s.davis said:
Do I think WIHA could be better managed, from here in the same armchair I sat in second guessing Andy Reid's playcalling for 8 years? Yes. But that doesn't make it a conspiracy. Nor does wanting people to come to Kansas to hunt. That's just what normal places do. Also, residents hunt WIHAs, and they hunt all the other KDWP managed areas. It's a conspiracy to figure out a way for people to have places to hunt in a state with almost no public land, including all the people in Kansas, most of whom don't live on milo farms. 75% of Kansas live in cities or towns. It's really just as simple as that.

I'm just not sure what one would expect the KDWP pheasant forecast to say. Maybe:

"Kansas's pheasant population is in total freefall. A couple generations of poisoning and raping the land, combined with a loudly professed belief that it is everyone's "right" to do so if they paid enough money to a bank, and an obviously changing climate that we refuse to acknowledge because if we do gas could get so expensive that we can only afford to drive to things more than 1000 yards away and we might have to eat food that's boring and doesn't make us wildly obese or give us cancer, have combined to decimate a lot of wildlife. Unfortunately, pheasants are one of them. We are relying on magical thinking to pull us out this. Meanwhile, even though we don't have a good economy and our cities and towns look like incredibly spread out ghettos, we would ask that you not come here and spend money unless you are already here and don't have much to spend. That way Larry can can hunt the old Mazek place out by Victoria 2 or 3 times a season, which is now owned by a multi-national conglomerate, just like he did before 1997. Lately he has seen a lot of license plates that were from other states and it really fires him up in a bad way, plus he hasn't shot a "good buck" in a while, and that's really what we are here for. Try Iowa."
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Since 1995 and WIHA, Kansas resident hunters are on a decline. NR hunters now outnumber resident hunters. Resident hunters did just fine before WIHA, that program is for NR's. I didn't bother to read your "Pheasant Forecast".
 
s.davis said:
Do I think WIHA could be better managed, from here in the same armchair I sat in second guessing Andy Reid's playcalling for 8 years? Yes. But that doesn't make it a conspiracy. Nor does wanting people to come to Kansas to hunt. That's just what normal places do. Also, residents hunt WIHAs, and they hunt all the other KDWP managed areas. It's a conspiracy to figure out a way for people to have places to hunt in a state with almost no public land, including all the people in Kansas, most of whom don't live on milo farms. 75% of Kansas live in cities or towns. It's really just as simple as that.

I'm just not sure what one would expect the KDWP pheasant forecast to say. Maybe:

"Kansas's pheasant population is in total freefall. A couple generations of poisoning and raping the land, combined with a loudly professed belief that it is everyone's "right" to do so if they paid enough money to a bank, and an obviously changing climate that we refuse to acknowledge because if we do gas could get so expensive that we can only afford to drive to things more than 1000 yards away and we might have to eat food that's boring and doesn't make us wildly obese or give us cancer, have combined to decimate a lot of wildlife. Unfortunately, pheasants are one of them. We are relying on magical thinking to pull us out this. Meanwhile, even though we don't have a good economy and our cities and towns look like incredibly spread out ghettos, we would ask that you not come here and spend money unless you are already here and don't have much to spend. That way Larry can can hunt the old Mazek place out by Victoria 2 or 3 times a season, which is now owned by a multi-national conglomerate, just like he did before 1997. Lately he has seen a lot of license plates that were from other states and it really fires him up in a bad way, plus he hasn't shot a "good buck" in a while, and that's really what we are here for. Try Iowa."
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Their credibility would at least go up to knotch 1 for me if they did. Call me crazy but I don't like being fed BS every year like we are too stupid to know any better. And yes some policies may be out of their hands but they are supposed to be stewards of the land and the animals and I've never heard anyone in that office (kdwp) take a stance on these ag practices, government policies, or anything for that matter that has led to the decline of wildlife and hunting opportunities in our state. Have a backbone and not be so hypocritical about what you say you're about all the while letting the opposite go on. That's all I ask.

And now back to the weather situation......
 
westksbowhunter said:
Since 1995 and WIHA, Kansas resident hunters are on a decline. NR hunters now outnumber resident hunters. Resident hunters did just fine before WIHA, that program is for NR's. I didn't bother to read your "Pheasant Forecast".
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Cool, now, don't read theirs and quit your crying. Problem solved. With the time you save, you can build a time machine back to 1995, when there was "no problem" with Kansas hunting...
 
s.davis said:
Cool, now, don't read theirs and quit your crying. Problem solved. With the time you save, you can build a time machine back to 1995, when there was "no problem" with Kansas hunting...
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Well you brought nothing of value to the discussion. As usual. Which is why you start your insults and personal attacks.
 
s.davis said:
When you don't "bother to read", you miss things.
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In addition to taking a thread political and have it shutdown the thread should also be shutdown due to making 4th grade girl comments and acting like a bonehead
Sometimes you just need to consider the source and move in with no comment
 
GetTothePoint said:
The ditch mowing is a huge pet peeve of mine, the money spent and the habitat destroyed in that "service" is mind blowing to me. They mow our ditches in our entire county at least twice a year. Let alone the fuel we are burning in those new tractors we've paid for there is stuff I see mowed over in the ditches that I'm guessing those repair bills are significant also. Don't want to sidetrack this thread to a blame game as mother nature trumps all the other issues but weather is surely not the only limiting factor for bird numbers these days. I just find kdwp's marketing scheme extremely misleading and humorous.
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Canada Pheasants Forever launched a new rights of way habitat initiative that helps stop "trespass farming" practices. There are so many things that the state of Kansas and the KDWP could do instead of throwing money away on the WIHA program. Really things that would not cost a lot of money. A tiny portion of land that could be habitat to bees, butterflies, turtles, frogs, and even pheasants.
 
Citori16 said:
In addition to taking a thread political and have it shutdown the thread should also be shutdown due to making 4th grade girl comments and acting like a bonehead
Sometimes you just need to consider the source and move in with no comment
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We are better off if we all ignore him. Just let him do his thing.
 
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