Iowa Has CRP but No Birds....Why?

McFarmer said:
Oats, wheat and grass hay. We haven't had good numbers since oats disappeared from the rotations.

Most CRP isn't that great for nesting pheasants.
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McFarmer has it surrounded. CRP takes regular management to keep in condition to function as nesting and brood-rearing cover. 1 mid-contract management practice may not be enough to accomplish that. As I noted earlier, this is a bigger problem where rainfall is higher and where the tall grass varieties are a bigger part of the seeding mix.
 
OK, so if that is the case then one might begin to ask...."Is the federal taxpayer getting their monies worth in regards to CRP payments to farmers?"

If CRP does not produce pheasants it is probably not producing a whole lot of other things like non-game animals, songbirds, butterflies, etc.

Yes or No?
 
Ok Uguide. You don't seem to care for or agree with anyone's answers or responses. Since you don't agree, what is your answer? And don't say you don't have an answer after coming in so strong against previous replies. What are your thoughts on why you believe iowa doesn't have the bird numbers?
 
UGUIDE said:
OK, so if that is the case then one might begin to ask...."Is the federal taxpayer getting their monies worth in regards to CRP payments to farmers?"

If CRP does not produce pheasants it is probably not producing a whole lot of other things like non-game animals, songbirds, butterflies, etc.

Yes or No?
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Interesting response. I believe what I'm getting at is that we, as hunters, have some misguided belief that, because we find pheasants in CRP in October thru January, it is phenomenal nesting and brood-rearing habitat no matter what the condition. The CRP program did not start out as a wildlife production program. It was a mix of soil conservation, farm subsidy, price support and other goals first and habitat came later. Yet still, even today the seeding mixes are still often set up for grazing goals, not wildlife goals. IF it were a wildlife program, WE would be getting screwed as tax payers in many respects, others not. Also too, NWSG habitat isn't critical habitat for every species, so we can't evaluate it as such nor expect it to be such. Sheesh guys, try to be civil and get along! We're wearing the same color of orange!
 
Prairie Drifter said:
Interesting response. I believe what I'm getting at is that we, as hunters, have some misguided belief that, because we find pheasants in CRP in October thru January, it is phenomenal nesting and brood-rearing habitat no matter what the condition. The CRP program did not start out as a wildlife production program. It was a mix of soil conservation, farm subsidy, price support and other goals first and habitat came later. Yet still, even today the seeding mixes are still often set up for grazing goals, not wildlife goals. IF it were a wildlife program, WE would be getting screwed as tax payers in many respects, others not. Also too, NWSG habitat isn't critical habitat for every species, so we can't evaluate it as such nor expect it to be such. Sheesh guys, try to be civil and get along! We're wearing the same color of orange!
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Yes yes. CRP is about conservation and sometimes I think everyone has a different meaning for what the conservation value of a program is or should be. I encourage my farmers to gain some price support and market control by putting at the very least their marginal acres in a good program. Some will not have a thing to do with the federal government. Hmmm....wonder why?

I do think CRP is evolving and yes hunters typically has a fall mindset of conservation as did I in the early years. I have evolved.

Conservation is staged to be a big hero but I guess we will need more crisis' to get called upon.

Maybe there is a new role out there for "Conservation Managers". FSA and NRCS clearly do not have the resources to manage to the ultimate levels for production. And for the record production could relate to addressing whatever the resource concern of the program is.

PF Farm Bill biologists have done the best job I have seen to date on this role but also fall way short in the landowner education, sales and engagement department.

I would say "why try and grow more CRP acres before the acres you have are know to be maximized/optimized"?
 
UGUIDE said:
"why try and grow more CRP acres before the acres you have are know to be maximized/optimized"?
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In your case, and that of many others who have enrolled land into CRP in hopes of benefiting wildlife, that's a good point. But if minimizing soil erosion and cleaner water, or, just setting aside some land that's not producing $, prime pheasant habitat doesn't really matter. Particularly considering the amount of time and money that goes into turning CRP into prime wildlife habitat.

UGIDE; You should be able to produce a HECK of alot of birds on that many conservation acres.
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That's correct you should, but let's assume all 1.4million acres are put into pheasant producing habitat (which we know they are not). With habitat loss moving at the rate it has in Iowa, habitats have become increasingly fragmented. A nice 100 acre CRP field with nothing else around is not going to be a big pheasant producer. What % of the 1.4 million acres of CRP enrolled lands are now a "habitat island" surrounded by a black desert?

Habitat loss, plus harsh winters, plus unfavorable nesting and brood rearing conditions equals fewer birds.

If mother nature turns her attitude around for a few years and existing birds within existing habitats have a chance to do what they need to do to produces more birds, there will be a jump in pheasant numbers. Unfortunately with all the habitat loss and habitat fragmentation Iowa has experienced, numbers will most likely not be where they were in the past.

Nick
 
I think CRP is a big part of the solution, just not the whole solution. Does CRP Help pheasant Populations....Yes.

CRP along with other practices, (planting food plots, leaving a buffer zone in fields, no tile farming, preditor control. Not mowing ditches/right of ways until later in the year....etc.etc.) all these things used in concert is what helps the pheasant population. if we rely on just one, you can still have SOME pheasants, just not as many as when you incorporate many or all of these practices.



1pheas4--also good point on the island concept.
 
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IsThisHeaven? said:
You have more than 100 posts though. 49 more to go for me and I will be able to comment!
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I'll send you a "friend" request grasshopper. If you accept it, that should help bring you up a few notches:D. Let me know if you feel better afterwords.
Nick
 
UGUIDE said:
Personal attacks says a lot about you. Oh and by the way are against forum policy so watch out for the ban stick.
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That's a personal attack? I don't agree with you. I would argue your post was much more of a personal attack. It's probably best if we both just let it go at this point.
 
I see similar issues in Minnesota. There are large tracts of wildlife areas that are planted in NWSG but are not producing pheasants. I?m fairly new to owning and managing my property for pheasants but I think it is the lack of diversity and therefore quality habitat. Most of these wildlife areas get little attention after they are planted and should be burned and woody cover added.

Lack of continued maintenance and lack of proactive improvement of the land for pheasants is probably one of the reason there is a lack of birds. By the way, if someone has the perfect recipe for maximizing pheasant production send it my way as I am still trying to figure it out.
 
I would like to see somebody do a fall seeded or very early spring food plot. Wheat, rye or spring oats would provide nesting cover if the plot was big enough, say five acres.

After nesting a person could go with some grain sorghum if you wanted something to last the winter.

It might be interesting to try.
 
Nope!

When I say this in an earlier post "Excellents posts and it makes me think. Based on what I know from hunting Iowa for 20 years and farming for pheasants in South Dakota for 15 years here is where I agree and disagree:"

And you say this....

IsThisHeaven? said:
Ok Uguide. You don't seem to care for or agree with anyone's answers or responses. Since you don't agree, what is your answer? And don't say you don't have an answer after coming in so strong against previous replies. What are your thoughts on why you believe iowa doesn't have the bird numbers?
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You are going to get some serious flack from me and should from others as well. Especially when posted in what I consider to be a sacred forum where not many "mainstreamers" participate in. So I suggest you READ the whole thread before going after someone personally.:mad:
 
UGUIDE said:
You are going to get some serious flack from me and should from others as well. Especially when posted in what I consider to be a sacred forum where not many "mainstreamers" participate in. So I suggest you READ the whole thread before going after someone personally.:mad:
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Then lets move on and keep it "sacred".;)

Thank you.:cheers:

Nick
 
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