Importance of eCollars?

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IndianaRose

New member
I've trained dogs over 50 years, and been a training instructor, but never for hunting dogs. Competition obedience, agility, flyball, herding, therapy dogs, and disc (frizbee) dogs. I've never needed an ecollar for any of the training -- I start a pup with a sound recall. I understand their use and have no strong opinion about them (other than they should never be used by beginners). I used the traditional methods (jerking on the choke collar) early on, but switched to clicker training when I had a super-soft dog. I had such good results I have stayed with that method. If you are a good trainer, just how important is an ecollar? Herd dog training involves long distance work, but I've never seen ecollars used on herd dogs. Trying to avoid an expense I may not need.
 
I look at an e-collar as a tool and nothing more. Can you train a dog without one? Absolutely. The same way that you can whoa train a dog without a training table. Most of my dogs training was done without an e-collar being worn.

That said, the reason alot of guys train their dogs with an e-collar is because the dog is wearing one in the field. So if you don't introduce them to the e-collar and teach them what it means you may as well not even have one. My dogs are always trained without an e-collar at first, and then I condition them to the e-collar for a few things. I mostly use an e-collar as a backup for the few times they are so wound up and bird drunk, they aren't focusing on me. A light nic or (more commonly) a quick tone with the e-collar snaps them back into reality to listen to my further instruction.

An e-collar however is not a replacement for someone that doesn't know how to train a dog. And in the hands of an inexperienced trainer, an e-collar will do more harm than good.
 
i mainly use mine in the vibrate mode to recall my lab when she gets too far out from me and i dont have to holler for her. I find it very useful on windy days when its difficult for her to hear me calling her. i try to also use a whistle which ill be a bit louder in the wind. very rarely have i needed to nic her with a #2 setting.

I've never used the continuous shock mode.
 
I use a Garmin GPS collar. Primarily for KNOWING where they are when you are in the middle of a huge corn field and can only see a short distance.

Secondarily, as gps4 said, they are trained to recall on the vibrate so you can silently recall them. The are also trained to recall on tone which for me is a backup/reinforcement of vibrate.

The continuous/nic feature is almost never used and when it is, it's usually near a road with vehicles moving. A dog chasing a running bird is focused on the bird and ignores the road/vehicles. A nic will break their concentration on the bird, especially since it's a rare event.

I walk mine on low traffic neighborhood trails and roads and they are always heeled and sat when a car is on the road and closing. They pretty much know the sound of a vehicle means go sit by the old man. That's fine and dandy but there are no running roosters in my neighborhood. I want a little backup.
 
I to use the Garmin, I don't really train with the collar, but dogs are a lot different than they were back in the day of lots of birds and close dogs. Most come from a lineage bred for running hard and deep. That's where the gps and attitude adjustment comes in handy.
 
Depends in part on how and where you hunt. I am assuming by ecollar you mostly mean the correction side of things. I find it nice for trash breaking the dogs. i.e. when I am watching them run deer/elk 300 yards across prairie I am not sure what a clicker will do for me. No reason not to give an adult dog a good shock so they will stop chasing deer and so they don't wish to in the future. When I have a dog charging a porcupine, having the electric stimulation at the push of a button is good for training.

Tone/vibrate recall on the collar is crucial for how and where I hunt.

The vast majority of the time during training and hunting my dogs don't get electric stimulation.

For my peace of mind and relaxation I don't put my dogs down without a GPS strapped to their neck. If I had to choose between bringing a gun and a gps collar for the dogs, I would leave the gun at home. Other folks think the GPS makes the hunt less enjoyable. We all hunt differently. We run different types of dogs trained differently. We all enjoy different aspects. For me a GPS collar is well worth the expense, for you it might not be.
 
Safety reasons is why you want your dog collar conditioned. Even the best dog will get excited and want to sniff that skunk or porcupine, or chase after a deer that they jumped out of the grass. You can yell all you want but pressing a button is a whole lot easier and works 100% of the time. I can assure you even the strongest dog is not going to run through setting 10.

Ive only ever nicked my dog once while upland hunting. We were walking back to the truck letting the dog range probably farther than he should have been and he took off for the truck once he saw it (probably thirsty), there was a road between us and i didnt want him on the road alone, and he couldn't hear my whistle in the wind. I nicked him and he did just what he was trained to do, sat in the middle of the field. I trained him to sit on stim while ranging, basically if he gets a random stim he sits down looks for me and waits for my command.

You can do every part of upland training with a lead as a puppy, and then whistles as you finish training into adulthood... But that ecollar and being collar conditioned is still necessary imo.

Plus you can fix a few things easier using stim as the dog matures and picks up bad habbits as your training laxes. Easier to hit a button when the dog chases a hen busting the rest of the field ahead of you, than it is to go back to training "no bird". The dog knows, they just need reminders here and there.
 
I started training bird dogs in the early 80s. No collars that I knew of, barrels, whistles, short and long leads were my tools.

First collars I had were very heavy and not blessed with all the technology and capabilities that are available today. I've found the use of collars results in less wear and tear on the dogs and trainer/hunter.
Dogs learn quicker and I think remember longer. Use of stimulus should be rare - more repetitions and patience instead.
My dogs are excited when the collar goes on - it's time to get out of the truck or kennel and run. Once properly conditioned to the collar, a beep or my whistle gets their attention and proper response - most of the time. Badgers, farmer's chicken or guineas, skunks, cow paddies sometimes necessitate using low tickles - one that I can tolerate on me.
My collar also has a locator for the rare time when I can't find a dog as quick as I would like, probably use maybe once a year.

Haven't felt the need for GPS. I don't hunt standing corn, only 3-4 hunters, and haven't had too many issues in cattails.

Everyone I hunt with that has a dog uses a collar.
 
I do not use e-collars as a training aid. I have trained six Brittanys and am on number seven now. If I needed to, I suppose I would use one. Thought about an e-collar if/when I know they are chasing deer (they all seem to do it just once around the age of 1, but all stopped quickly on their own).

I can see why e-collars could be a must for pro trainers that work with client dogs maybe 15-30 minutes twice a day. If that is all the time you have to interact ... you need to maximize the efficiency of that time together. These pros also need to move quickly in establishing authority, etc... My dogs all live inside with us. We walk miles daily and "train" often.

I use a GPS (Garmin Astro) collar and it has revolutionized how I hunt with my Brittanys in the woods and prairies. Fantastic advantage for silent hunting and knowing when your dog is on point but not clearly visible (it vibrates and buzzes on point mode).
 
gps4 said:
i mainly use mine in the vibrate mode to recall my lab when she gets too far out from me and i dont have to holler for her. I find it very useful on windy days when its difficult for her to hear me calling her. i try to also use a whistle which ill be a bit louder in the wind. very rarely have i needed to nic her with a #2 setting.

I've never used the continuous shock mode.
Click to expand...

Pretty much exactly how I use mine too. I don't yell when I'm hunting. It hurts my throat and lets every bird for half a mile know that I'm there too.
 
like others have said primarily safety. I have also trained in multiple venues including obedience and agility but when even a close working dog like mine step on a deer or jack rabbit they will chase no matter how well trained they are. I bought my first e collar the day after I almost lost a young dog to a semi while it was chasing a deer across a road.
 
There are 2 primary applications:
1) Teaching avoidance such as snake-proofing, dechasing deer, teaching pup to avoid porcupines, etc.

2) Quick obedience such as teaching pup to sit on a whistle with a nose full of fresh bird scent instead of
tracking and eventually flushing a running rooster into the next county.
Another example would be quick recall instead of chasing a flushed rooster across a highway.
 
It’s just reinforcement for a command. Like a long leash I guess. I say HERE, dog thinks -“ ehh maybe I don’t know whatever dude” I beep it. Dog thinks- “ oh shit I better listen”.

Just a tool to help reinforce learned commands and have control in different situations. Some that could be dangerous. It’s a good tool. I use it always out and about and out hunting.

I forgot to add dog loves seeing the thing. Means some fun is about to be had.
 
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I've hunted for over 45 years. I've hunted dogs with and without e-collars. A dog can get the job done either way. I DO hunt now with an e-collar on my dog, but I seldom, if ever use it. She has a pretty good memory apparently and responds to the beep or my whistle instantly. There have been days where I have forgotten her collar and gone without and she performed perfectly, so perhaps after rambling through this post, I will say that her collar is to keep her from backsliding into bad habits.
 
Drew said:
I've hunted for over 45 years. I've hunted dogs with and without e-collars. A dog can get the job done either way. I DO hunt now with an e-collar on my dog, but I seldom, if ever use it. She has a pretty good memory apparently and responds to the beep or my whistle instantly. There have been days where I have forgotten her collar and gone without and she performed perfectly, so perhaps after rambling through this post, I will say that her collar is to keep her from backsliding into bad habits.
Click to expand...

Pretty much exactly how I use mine too. Haven't had to use the actual shock control in over 10 years. I also use a whistle since I hate yelling when I'm hunting.
 
E-collars get such a bad wrap because of the name and how people think trainers use them. The stimulation is very similar to the stimulation that gets used for physical therapy in humans, it’s not electric shock like an outlet or an electric fence.

Other than for trash breaking they should never be used as a “punishment” for the dog doing something wrong. The E-collar should be used just like a check cord but can be done at longer distance and with instant timing. That helps the dog learn much faster and should never be at a level that hurts the dog, just gets their attention. No different than a correction with the check cord, some dogs get it with a little tug, others need a good yank to get their attention.

When used properly, a dog can learn what is expected of them in the shortest amount of time and with an amazing level of perfection. Not because they are “afraid” of getting “shocked” but because it makes it really easy for them to understand what we want, and most dogs want to please their handler.
 
IndianaRose said:
I've trained dogs over 50 years, and been a training instructor, but never for hunting dogs. Competition obedience, agility, flyball, herding, therapy dogs, and disc (frizbee) dogs. I've never needed an ecollar for any of the training -- I start a pup with a sound recall. I understand their use and have no strong opinion about them (other than they should never be used by beginners). I used the traditional methods (jerking on the choke collar) early on, but switched to clicker training when I had a super-soft dog. I had such good results I have stayed with that method. If you are a good trainer, just how important is an ecollar? Herd dog training involves long distance work, but I've never seen ecollars used on herd dogs. Trying to avoid an expense I may not need.
Click to expand...
There are at least 2 aspects:
1) Training to avoid hazards. Typically an ecollar is used with a defanged rattlesnake to "snake-proof" bird dogs.
The same principle can be applied to training dogs to avoid porcupines, skunks, do not chase deer, etc.
The ecollar correction comes WITHOUT a command, as the dog needs to learn the hazard "caused" the ecollar correction.

2) Remote and instantaneous response. I hunt my labs way out of gun range and they are extremely birdy.
I need to stop them when they are hot tracking at 200 yards. Otherwise they would bust a covey of huns into the next county.
Stopping at a distance is easy because they understand whistle sit to avoid an ecollar nick.
The nick ALWAYS comes after the command and if it is windy and the dog cannot hear the whistle, then do not use the ecollar nick!
 
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