RoosterTim
New member
This is the most bad ass thing I've seen in a long time. Very cool.
Hope to run into you someday to watch your eagle in motion.
Hope to run into you someday to watch your eagle in motion.
Hunting Jack Rabbits with a Golden Eagle
- Thread starter chase0109
- Start date
PheasantWhisperer
Member
Couple of statements and a couple of questions...It's actually the dog's job to point, not flush. You can make your pointing dog flush but that's another thing you have to train it to do. You still will have to go in and flush probably. Then send the hawk out to catch it. I know falconers like pointers instead of flushers because it gives them time to get into position before the chase is on. Questions: Have you ever had a hawk bring back a hen pheasant? I;m guessing you cant pheasant hunt with them but has it ever happened while hunting other game? And, how did your buddy's hawks die? Sorry, I'm very interested.
You are correct. Her job is to point. But in my case I am cutting some corners. I would prefer she would point jacks. But very rarely will a jack hold long enough for a dog to point. Coyotes are their main predator and they break pretty quick. I have only had 1 jack hold for a point. I'm perfecty fine with her bumping jacks. Really for Dexter any well trained dog would work as I just need a dog that stays close and quarters well to cover the field in front of me. I do not want Greta to knowingly flush for me. With birds she always points.
As for the hawk we don't get to send them with any type of command. Its just natural for them to launch soon as game flushes.
A high view of falconry to hopefully explain. Saying Falconry is akin to saying gundog. There are alot of types and styles of hunting dogs just like the birds we fly. Pointers are used by longwingers (guys flying falcons). They want a solid point and can then release a falcon to pin the birds. Allowing the falconer to flush when the falcon is in the desired position.
A shortwinger (someone who flies hawks) will go with a pointer or flusher depending. You can hunt pheasants over a point with a goshawk. But for Redtails or Harris Hawks alot of people use beagles, JRT, or dachshounds. Basically any dog that will flush cottontails out of cover.
Dexter is always on my fist looking for a slip. Soon as a jack flushes he launches and tries to catch it in direct pursuit. If he misses he flies back to the glove and we keep walking.
To be honest I am not using Greta as a pointer when flying Dexter. Mostly just to cover more ground than I can and bump jacks. But I do use her as a pointer for pheasants/quail. I need good obedience so she doesn't chase the jacks or go in on Dexter on a kill. Lay nearby until I trade him off.
I can hunt pheasants with raptors. Usually falcons or goshawks. Personally I don't anymore because I would rather watch the dog work and use my shotgun. Pheasants are super ratty and will run and bail on a falcon. I caught a few pheasants including hens 6-7 years ago with a Gyr/Peregrine falcon. But sage grouse, chickens, and huns are much better quarry. They hold better for points and are not as likely to bail back into cover under a falcon. Usually they prefer to dodge/outfly the falcon.
Every state has its own falconry laws. We usually have a slightly extended bird season than gun hunters. I can hunt pheasants until Feb 28th in Minnesota with a falcon. Our bag limit is 2 roosters a day. Hens are legal. But only 1 per day. So if I catch a hen I'm done for the day. Because I can't control what will flush and if I went for another bird it might be a hen.
Raptors get killed all the time. Usually by other bigger raptors. But by lots of predators. My buddy had 1 falcon killed by a feral cat while plucking a prairie chicken I had just caught. The next morning another falcon was killed by a golden eagle while plucking a PC it had caught on the morning flight. I've had falcons killed by owls. Great Horned Owls are terrible. Golden eagle kill lots of trained falcons. If falcons tail chase a grouse and catch it a couple miles away there is a very good chance you falcon will be killed an eagle by the time you get there. I have a friend in WY that has a whole mantle dedicated to pics of falcons that have been killed by eagles at his place over the last 30 years. Seen coyotes kill falcons on a kill as well. Plus there are vehicle collisions, power poles, building collisions, feral cats, ect. Even had a friend watch his falcon get beaten to death by a woman who stopped her car to save the duck the falcon had just caught in a cut corn field. Was a 10 year old bird. Its a live by the sword die by the sword life for most raptors. Old age is a special privilage for most falconry birds.
Dexter is top of the food chain and nothing really bothers him on a kill. In fact he tries to balance the scales and wants to eat every owl he sees. He's taken 3 species of owl so far.
I'm always happy to answer any questions you have. So feel free to ask
Thanks,
Chase
Your doing great! I just guessed by the passage RT and the welders glove. Alot of us start with a welders glove. I did when I started. Now I swear I own more falconry gear than anyone should be allowed lol.
Enjoy the RT. If she turns out to be a good bird intermew her and she will only get better. A good friend of mine in MN has her original RT she trapped as a apprentice. We started the same year and "Bonnie" is now in her 18th season. She always catches over 100 grey squirrels a year with her. Just caught a bobcat this year. She uses her GWP to point cottontails for her 3 Harris Hawks. So you have alot to look forward to with your girl.
Your in the right state for great falconry. I hope to buy 50-100 acres and build a house in KS in 2-3 years. MN is just too cold. Are you in Eastern or Western KS? I'd be happy to hunt with you sometime
Thanks,
Chase
Chase,
Fascinating stuff! Especially the tidbit about the birds falling prey to owls, coyotes and other birds of prey. Had no idea that would happen.
If you keep active in this thread I think it could compete for # of views along with the "drought ends at the Ponderosa" thread.....ha
Since as you referenced the bird could fly a couple miles before it catches it's prey do you have some sort of tracking device on the bird or do you hang out until it comes back?
I'd wager if the bird caught some prey on a neighboring place you didn't have permission to be on and the landowner rolled up to see what was going on they'd most likely be tickled pink you were there vs being a hunter with a gun....haha. not that I'm condoning trespassing but you know what I mean...having to catch up to the bird on someone else's place and the owner shows up whIle you're doing so. Bet they find it as fascinating as the rest of us.
Fascinating stuff! Especially the tidbit about the birds falling prey to owls, coyotes and other birds of prey. Had no idea that would happen.
If you keep active in this thread I think it could compete for # of views along with the "drought ends at the Ponderosa" thread.....ha
Since as you referenced the bird could fly a couple miles before it catches it's prey do you have some sort of tracking device on the bird or do you hang out until it comes back?
I'd wager if the bird caught some prey on a neighboring place you didn't have permission to be on and the landowner rolled up to see what was going on they'd most likely be tickled pink you were there vs being a hunter with a gun....haha. not that I'm condoning trespassing but you know what I mean...having to catch up to the bird on someone else's place and the owner shows up whIle you're doing so. Bet they find it as fascinating as the rest of us.
Toad
Active member
Your doing great! I just guessed by the passage RT and the welders glove. Alot of us start with a welders glove. I did when I started. Now I swear I own more falconry gear than anyone should be allowed lol.
Enjoy the RT. If she turns out to be a good bird intermew her and she will only get better. A good friend of mine in MN has her original RT she trapped as a apprentice. We started the same year and "Bonnie" is now in her 18th season. She always catches over 100 grey squirrels a year with her. Just caught a bobcat this year. She uses her GWP to point cottontails for her 3 Harris Hawks. So you have alot to look forward to with your girl.
Your in the right state for great falconry. I hope to buy 50-100 acres and build a house in KS in 2-3 years. MN is just too cold. Are you in Eastern or Western KS? I'd be happy to hunt with you sometime
Thanks,
Chase
Manhattan is in the Eastern side of the state. We have a little bit of everything here (except jacks), but not the best of anything. Whatever bird I settle on after my apprenticeship will be most successful if it is kind of a generalist. There's a lot of game available if you are willing to chase a wide variety of stuff, but it's only a so-so region if you have a very specific quarry.
I'm definitely letting her go in the Spring so I can get the experience of training another one next Fall. Not that I'm complaining about her. She was a dream to train, and pretty patient, and I enjoy her personality. I'm pretty attached to her, actually, but I hope she'll go make babies and have a long life as a wild hawk.
I do have a proper glove now. Christmas gift from the family... It's nice having an extra thickness of leather covering the arteries in my wrist. :laugh: It was unsettling that she would constantly punch through the welding glove right there, not with any intention to hurt me, but just holding on when we walked around.
I wish I had a jackrabbit field for you, because I would definitely meet you next week! I would love to see a golden eagle in action. :cheers:
Toad
Active member
KsHusker, when I'm out hunting my red tail, I'm watching out for transformers on power poles first. Then I'm looking for great horned owls as the second concern. After that, my hawk is reasonably "safe" until she is on the ground with quarry. Any predator that sees or hears her on the ground will check it out for a free meal, so I sprint in that direction when I see her dive. I want to have eyes on her as soon as possible, because she is the most vulnerable on the ground.
BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
That's what I was thinking. I know the guy we hunt on in Liberal would do cartwheels if you showed up with an eagle. He hates jackrabbits. Add in the cool factor, I'm sure he'd hop on the ranger and take you out. I just haven't seen many jacks out there this year. Chase if you run out of places to hunt let me know I'll put you in touch with him, I think he would be thrilled.
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Been following this thread, very interesting stuff! I may have a place for you, gonna check on it today. Out in SW Kansas, was there 3 weeks ago and it was loaded with Jacks. Will call today and check on it and let you know. How long are you planning on being in Kansas when you head this way?
I happy you find it interesting. It's not a super common sport. I am always happy to share info
Hawks usually don't go very far. But falcons can move. Over 100 miles in a couple hours if they want.
We do use tracking devices. As technology has change we have followed suit. In the 70's HF 151 radio tracking telemetry started being used for falconry. That progressed to VHF 216 and better receivers (that's where I started). Then a few years ago we went to UFH 433-434. Still all radio tracking. Listening to a beep and honing in on it. I takes alot of skill and experience to be good at it. I am very good at it as I've tracked too many birds lol. My longest track was 3 years ago. I lost a falcon at 7am in a apple orchard. I pinned the bird down on a farmers roof at 11pm that night. Traveled 63 miles as the crow flies. I slept in the cab of my truck and called him down to the lure the next morning. A mix of skill and luck as we covered 2 mountain ranges that day.
Now we have GPS. I have used SMS based GPS but switched to Marshall Radio GPS. App on my phone lets me watch whats happening with 1 & 5 second updates. Makes life better in enclosed areas. I also use VFH 216 radio telemetry as a backup.
You are correct. I have yet to meet a land owner that didn't allow me access to hunt rabbits on their property. In fact I have met alot of great people in SW KS when they pull over to ask me about the bird on my glove. Even get invited to come hunt their land occasionally. I've made friends with the county sheriff and County Commissioner in Haskell county by taking them out hunting with Dexter.
That's why I invite anyone to come out hawking with me. I even do school programs for one of the landowners who is a school teacher in Ulysses.
Most every farmer I have talked to in KS dislikes jackrabbits and says I can have them all. I never ask to hunt pheasants on their land either. Most people are protective of the pheasants, so I just look for WIHA land and try that for pheasants.
Great people in Kansas. SW kansas is one of my favorite places in all the US!
Thanks,
Chase
I travel up your way going across the state. Turkey hunted outside Lawrence a couple times at Clinton WMA. Last time I came through was Dec 16th in that terrible ice storm. Please order better weather for Kansas from now on
That's why I pushed this trip back a few days to avoid the freezing rain this weekend. I'd focus on in-city industrial areas for cottontails with the RT. From the little bit of conversation we have had, I would think a goshawk might be your best choice. If you love to hunt, and run a dog, and lots of variety a goshawk fills the bill. You can do cottontails, ducks, pheasants, quail, jacks, ect with 1 bird. All off the fist. Over points or just by you flushing. There a bit more work than a RT but worth it.
That is a smart choice to trap a new bird next fall. You will learn alot about training that way. Once you get the basics then a long term partner will be fun.
Personally I hate training. I love hunting! So I reverse engineer what I want as the finished product and figure out the shortest way to get there (avoid handling time). Hunting and lots of game is what really makes the partnership come together *IMO*.
I'm sure appreciate the differences between dogs and raptors. Totally different training aspects.
Your more than welcome to come out jack hawking with me anytime! I'm in SW Kansas pretty often. Shoot me a PM and I'll give you my number. Dexter is cool with anyone in the field.
Thanks,
Chase
Hi KansasGsp,
Thank you! I very much appreciate you checking. I figured there might be some guys like yourself that sees lots of jacks in that area. You can never have too many jack areas lol.
I'd love to take you and any landowners out with Dexter :cheers:
I'm thinking of leaving Monday 1/16 for Kansas. That would have me hunting from 1/17 - 1/21. Maybe a little longer? Have to keep the girl friend happy so need to be home for a coupe days. But I plan to be back down hunting from 1/26-1/31 to finish the pheasant season.
I love flying jacks with Dexter, but I really want to get Greta on some wild birds in KS. I have all of Feb to fly Dexter in Kansas and Texas.
Definitely making a trip back to NW Texas to hunt quail with Greta and Jacks with Dexter in Feb. Will hit Kansas for a few days then as well.
Thanks,
Chase
Toad
Active member
Just based on everything I am reading and doing with this RT, I imagine it would feel a bit strange to spend years training raptors and then try to train a dog. Definitely different, but I think the raptor training might be a bit more challenging... Still just a step-by-step process, but requires a lot more attention to detail and the birds have such special requirements. Dogs will adjust and fit themselves into your life, but you change your life to accommodate a bird... The whole falconry experience so far has really fed my OCD side... :laugh:
I hunted dogless with my RT this season, but won't do that again. I was worried about my dogs' level of obedience, and them getting their eyes clawed out when they tried to retrieve the hawk or the rabbit, or both... So I really need to put in the time this off season and get them 100% reliable.
Today I'm going to see a goshawk in action for the first time. I'm pretty excited about it.
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I can see the whole OCD thing with the raptors. I actually found it alot easier to commit to birds than dogs. None of my birds care if I'm around or not. As long as they get food their happy. I can leave for weeks on hunting trips as long as I have someone toss them food once a day. The dog requires alot more time and attention. The main reason I waited so long before commiting to a dog of my own. But she is amazing and I can't see ever not having a GWP or 2 on my team
I wasn't much worried about the dog respecting the birds. All of my falconer friends showed me that dogs are really smart and learn the difference almost immediately. Greta took about 2 days to learn that the falcons weren't for retrieving lol. Plus if your dog gets a little too close on a kill the RT will teach her it's not a good idea! Usually no worse for the wear, but a memorable learning experience for the dog. More often I have seen birds that want nothing to do with the dog (Dexter started that way). I'm sure your going to love have a solid team between your dog and bird
How was the goshawking today? I hope you had fun. I'm guessing if the bird was good then your hooked
An exceptional goshawk that is in great condition and shotguns pheasants on the rise is about as good as it gets in falconry. BTW who is your sponsor? I may know them.
Thanks,
Chase