Has anyone volunteered to be a Guide at a Lodge

[carptom1]

One of my best friends' dad's dog got shot and killed while guiding 2 years ago. It was a nightmare for him. The client was such a prick, that he couldn't understand why my friend's dad called off the hunt right then. The client thought that since he still had one dog left, he should be obligated to finish the hunt... To make matters worse, the guy refused to give him more than $500 to replace his fully broke, very outstanding pointer.

If I try to imagine being in his dad's shoes at that moment, it scares me to think about what I might do in that situation... Just hearing him tell me the story made me so mad I could see red!

After a few months of threats, the shooter finally agreed to purchase another dog for my friend's dad. They had a heluva time reaching an agreement, and in the end my friend's dad was happy to just get anything out of the shooter. I hunted behind both the original and replacement dog, and both were very fine hunting dogs.

That being said, the quality of the replacement dog would be irrelevant if it had been my dog that got shot. My dogs are 15 hours a day companions (can't take them to work), so their hunting abilities are only a small percentage of their true value to me...

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but there is a cautionary tale for you.

Toad that is a horrible story. I too know a guy that had his dog shot and killed while on a hunt. Hunting by it's nature is dangerous to dogs. I also know of three other guys who have had dogs run over while out hunting. A member on here was telling me the story of how his dog was shot by a long time hunter that should have known better. One guy ran his own dog over. I guess what I am saying is accidents do happen. I don't think they are anymore common on preserve hunts. I will tell you some of the most dangerous people I have hunted with were long time upland hunters.

 

[mustistuff]

Man you guy's are tough. I assume all of you were great, competent hunters from the very beginning. I for one enjoy the opportunity to take young and/or inexperienced hunters and teach them a little. I have had the opportunity to take many over the years and maybe rub off on them a little. Sometimes I have been the one taught other things. If the rules are laid out, and followed there shouldn't be a problem. I do agree about the birds though. Owning a flusher, poor flushing birds don't do it for me. The dog seems to enjoy it though

taking a friend or kid hunting is a risk and it is a part of hunting, the risk isn't just to the dog however. that's part of the game, by using your favorite mutt for multiple hunts on a preserve does increase the danger more than just a little and seems hardly worth it. when my bogey died recently he did so with two pellets just under the skin in the back of his head, the other two i got out. found them by accident and not sure when it happened or who did it, he didn't seem to know the difference, at least he never complained about it. the were there for years.

cheers

 

[UplandHntr]

But my problems so far this year is that she is not handling running birds very well and I also think she tends to get bored and will start pointing meadowlarks. Ive also unfortunately got plenty of mice points to go along with a couple rabbit points as well. I seem either to get a stellar day out of her (I had one freak day where I got into more birds than I could count and nearly got a limit in a couple hours) or I just have a really bad day or something in between.

I'd be really mad if I paid and was given a guide/dog at a preserve/club with the above credentials. If you're guiding - you're not training. Guide dogs should be a 'Finished' dog in my opinion. Bird contacts for a finished dog are expected of course.

Meadowlarks and Mice? Not at the club.

 

[mustistuff]

I just cant seem to get my dog onto enough birds the past couple years. I love hunting and dont mind traipsing around all day to see a couple birds but the problem is now that my dog has had limited bird contacts the past couple of years she seems to have gone backwards a bit.

She is going to be 5 in March and when she was 2.5 or so (woulda been 2010 season) it seems that was her best season. Bird contacts were plentiful and she was starting to learn how to handle running birds etc.

I took this dog from a pup who was so timid she got scared and wouldnt run in grass that was over her head to a bird crazy fiend in those 2.5 years. The following year I also got her enough prairie chicken contacts that she was holding/pointing them as well.

I havent intentionally prairie chicken hunted yet but am going to Saturday. The weather will be to my liking so I will she how she does then.

But my problems so far this year is that she is not handling running birds very well and I also think she tends to get bored and will start pointing meadowlarks. Ive also unfortunately got plenty of mice points to go along with a couple rabbit points as well. I seem either to get a stellar day out of her (I had one freak day where I got into more birds than I could count and nearly got a limit in a couple hours) or I just have a really bad day or something in between.

Id like to develop some consistency and feel the guiding aspect might work. I just need an environment where bird contacts are plentiful and not too far apart and not measured in 2 per 6-8 hours of hunting like Ive been experiencing at times. Found a place within an hour of here and called the guy...he seemed open to it.


Anyways, sorry for getting long winded, but our time is limited with our dogs as you know, would like to spend some quality time in the field instead of the ever present nature walks I seem to be going on. Id also like to figure out if shes a complete dud (I dont think she is but sometimes I want to slap my head in frustration...but just feel its due to a complete lack of bird contacts the past 2-3 years)

So have any of you volunteered to be a guide somewhere? Did you ask for any money -- maybe a portion of the tip money to at least cover your fuel etc? I figured that'd be fair but wanted others opinions?

And hey- if you know of a place within an hour or so of Wichita that would be open to this Id appreciate it if you PM me.

I may seem a little down on my dog but Im probably mine and her worst critic. I dont over discipline or anything like that, I just know that if i want a good solid dog (at least what I consider one) I need more bird contacts. She did pretty damn good a couple years ago. Just seems I may have lost her to boredom and am also suffering from a complete lack of game. I've only found one of these pockets we all speak of but that was a once a year only hunt. Not able to go back to the place again this year unfortunately. The other I know of I plan on making another trip to but it requires a 2-3 day trip to make it worth my time due to the distance.


Thanks BTW Ive got a setter. Used to have two but had to put her mother to sleep April of last year.

there seems to be a lot going on here and it is probably a six pac and not a few words on a forum, one, is your dog maybe came from a bad batch, two, it is getting old at 5 years. dogs do get bored and after enough time in the field and not finding anything, are likely to find mice and stink birds fun or at least more interesting than nothing. you as an owner have the responsibility to put the dog down in a field that holds birds, not always easy to do but that is your job. also neither you or the dog are going to live forever and not all dogs are up to speed, many of which are poluka's and not worth their time,, maybe you should cut and run. with good breeding and some time, you should be able to have a dog up and running as a nice hunting companion at no later than 7-10 months. if you have limited time and space don't go with a setter, howls, get a shorthair, not that one is really better than the other at the end but one you can get there pretty quickand the other, not so quick. remember, half of the dogs out there are less than average, we forget that. you have to decide whether or not you have given the dog a fair chance but at this stage of the game, you are up against the wall

cheers

 

[KsHusker]

......... if you have limited time and space don't go with a setter, howls, get a shorthair, not that one is really better than the other at the end but one you can get there pretty quickand the other, not so quick. remember, half of the dogs out there are less than average, we forget that. you have to decide whether or not you have given the dog a fair chance but at this stage of the game, you are up against the wall

cheers

You lost me at that comment. The second bolded part would be over my dead body. Id rather own a chihuahua than a short hair and I hate chihuahuas. But if they suit you or someone else thats fine. Id end up killing a short hair due to general temperament that is prevalent in most of them. Im a chill guy, I need a laid back dog. Not a common thing in a GSP.


Thanks for all of the responses. Writing has never been my forte, I dont believe I have a champion dog, but I have a pet who sits by my desk all day and is a part of my family first and foremost. I 1000% understand more bird contacts make a better bird dog. Anyone that lives in reality of the past 2 drought years understands birds are far and few between.

Im probably spoiled. I lived in Garden City (Holcomb) for a couple years 2004-2005 and a 10 minute walk away I had all the quail and pheasants along the river I cared to run my dog on and about 10-15k acres of semi private land in one chunk to hunt on. An accident a few years ago by some trespeassing nitwit forced the company to cut off hunting access. My normal day was getting into 2-3 covies of quail and sometimes many more, plus into the hundreds of pheasants. During my college years before that I had lots of good land access within an hour and a half of Wichita and more time to spend during the week hunting with the same # of bird contacts/birds seen. My current setters mother had 1000's of wild bird contacts. I never used pen raised stuff because they dont act the same and I dont think preserve hunting qualifies as sport but rather is just about killing.


Brittchaser has referenced what my frustration is this year and Im sure others feel the same. Walking 7 miles in one day and seeing 12 birds is not going to help any dog out and as enjoyable as it is to get back to nature, its really sad that our bird population plummeted in the toilet so far. I can get into birds but when you go days where you see 4-5....what kind of learning opportunity is that?

As I stated Im probably mine and her worst critic so if the dog sounds like a complete piece of junk I can assure you shes not. Just not up to my standards. Id be hunting mice if you walk all damn day and dont smell anything of interest. Ive seen more junk/trash animals chased and screwed around with when Ive been around Shorthairs. So Musti Im afraid a Setter is not the only one who can have that problem.

Anyways this past saturday I went to a different part of the state in chase of the Prairie Chicken. Found about 40-60 of them scattered about a 100 acre or so pasture. I had taken a friend that had never hunted before so was more worried about him shooting than me getting a shot. We should have had a couple prairie chickens shot but my buddy didnt get on them quick enough. My dog did good pointing the small scattered flocks I found but got a little bird crazy after the bulk of them got up and ended up busting the 2-3 stragglers that always seem to stay behind when the main group gets up and flies. I think in all there were about 5-6 distinct groups scattered about in the pasture. Oh well, Im not going to blame the dog when that is the only the 2nd high bird contact day we've had in a year. She covered the pasture well and didnt crowd any of the chickens. They only flew when we (my buddy and I) came into sight. They were a little jumpy for some reason. Normally I can get a bit closer.

But a good day was had with a lot of good points on PCs...only 2 pheasants seen and pointed with the only rooster seen in a 2-3 mile walk and dead. One covey of quail found and one knocked down by my buddy but unfortunatley he did not kill it and took his eye off of where it fell. We did lose the bird after looking for 30 minutes. I think my dog found where it fell but it must have buried itself in some thick grass. Just couldnt come up with it. Good news is my buddy liked it and I think he wants to go again. I also had the dog only get sidetracked by one mouse and that was at the start of the mornings hunt where we went an hour and a half or so without seeing anything. After the bird contacts started she had a laser focus the rest of the day. Just need more of those days.


I'll take all of the warnings into consideration. Maybe I could negotiate just paying the guy a trespass fee to come and work birds when he has no hunts going on. Im not going to follow up with him until February anyways. Guiding is something I felt would extend my season. As its no longer feasible to train like I used to by driving around and finding birds then letting the dog out or simply letting her run places close to town. Most close places are devoid of birds so not worth the effort.

 

[SetterNut]

I wouldn't waist a setter on preserve birds, use a GSP

 

[goldenboy]

I wouldn't waist a setter on preserve birds, use a GSP

Now that's funny and I don't run setters or pointers!

 

[birdshooter]

You lost me at that comment. The second bolded part would be over my dead body. Id rather own a chihuahua than a short hair and I hate chihuahuas. But if they suit you or someone else thats fine. Id end up killing a short hair due to general temperament that is prevalent in most of them. Im a chill guy, I need a laid back dog. Not a common thing in a GSP.

Ive seen more junk/trash animals chased and screwed around with when Ive been around Shorthairs.

WOW! KsHusker, those are some pretty bold statements. so it would seem your an expert on GSP temperament huh? You knew this was comin...

You know this could turn ugly and I'm not going to go there, but I will just say, there are poorly trained, poorly bred and undesirable individuals in any breed of dog. Yes, that means SETTERS too, yep... seen em. Judging and stereotyping an entire breed over a couple bad examples is... well.... expected from someone who doesn't have a clue.

Find a good breeder, then train the dog properly or have it trained and you'll have a hunting dog that you will be proud of regardless of breed.

 

[KsHusker]

WOW! KsHusker, those are some pretty bold statements. so it would seem your an expert on GSP temperament huh? You knew this was comin...

You know this could turn ugly and I'm not going to go there, but I will just say, there are poorly trained, poorly bred and undesirable individuals in any breed of dog. Yes, that means SETTERS too, yep... seen em. Judging and stereotyping an entire breed over a couple bad examples is... well.... expected from someone who doesn't have a clue.

Find a good breeder, then train the dog properly or have it trained and you'll have a hunting dog that you will be proud of regardless of breed.

I painted with a broad brush. Yes. But just my personal preference and I definitely met what I said about chihuahuas. I would echo Setternut's statement above...ha! Call me the Spaulding Hoffhacker of Ultimate Pheasant hunting. (For those that read PDJ you'll get the reference).

As for breeding, my dog comes out of stock from someone that advertises his dogs here. Shes one generation removed from all of his stock as I had the mother bred a couple times and one of her puppies ended up at Flint Oak Ranch so Id assume theres nothing wrong with her breeding or her for that matter. The only thing Ive failed in training wise is teaching to hunt dead and retrieve. One thing I have not mastered. She'll do it naturally more than her mother which is a good thing.

Like I stated I simply need bird contacts. Nothing more than that. Depending on wild ones the past 2, almost 3 years has put me behind the 8 ball and my dog behind in her development. Ive only got myself to blame for limited contacts, however mother nature made it difficult, lack of contacts has definitely not come from lack of trying. Ive come to the realization artificial contacts made at a preserve would be the 2nd best option avail to me as she is advancing in years and I want to enjoy every moment of it I can. Putting her mother to sleep last April put a little more emphasis on the last statement.

:cheers:

 

[SetterNut]

KSHusker,

You might see if you can find a place with some wild quail that is close enough to work your dog on. That would be about the best thing for your dog.

IMO for working a dog, pigeons in a launcher is often better than pen raised birds. Something got into my loft and ate all my pigeons, or I would have you up for a little work with the dog.